2 Cops 1 Donut
We were asked “what exactly is the point of this show?”Answer: social media is an underutilized tool by police. Not just police, but firefighters, DA’s, nurses, military, ambulance, teachers; front liners. This show is designed to reveal the full potential of true communication through long discussion format. This will give a voice to these professions that often go unheard from those that do it. Furthermore, it’s designed to show authentic and genuine response; rather than the tiresome “look, cops petting puppies” approach. We are avoiding the sound bite narrative so the first responders and those associated can give fully articulated thought. The idea is the viewers both inside and outside these career fields can gain realistic and genuine perspective to make informed opinions on the content. Overall folks, we want to earn your respect, help create the change you want and need together through all channels of the criminal justice system and those that directly impact it. This comes from the heart with nothing but positive intentions. That is what this show is about. Disclaimer: The views shared by this podcast, the hosts, and/or the guests do not in anyway reflect their employer or the policies of their employer. Any views shared or content of this podcast is of their opinion and not intended to malign any religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything. 2 Cops 1 Donut is not responsible and does not verify for accuracy any of the information contained in the podcast series available for listening on this site or for watching shared on this site or others. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. This podcast does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services.
2 Cops 1 Donut
From SWAT to Advocacy: Bridget Truxillo's Inspiring Journey in Law Enforcement and Legal Defense
Bridget Truxillo's journey from law enforcement to law advocacy is a testament to resilience and transformation. Growing up in the southern United States, Bridget's fascination with law was sparked by the movie "The Firm," setting her on a path that would see her breaking barriers as a member of a SWAT team and working within a narcotics unit. Through anecdotes laden with humor and poignant observations, she shares the rigors of SWAT tryouts, the camaraderie of team dynamics, and the unique challenges faced in high-stakes situations. Bridget's reflections reveal the mental and physical toll of such roles, underscoring the intense preparation needed to navigate the demands of law enforcement.
Yet, Bridget's story doesn't end in the field; it evolves as she transitions to law, fueled by a desire to advocate for those facing similar challenges. Her experiences provide invaluable insights into the complexities of being a woman in a male-dominated environment, revealing the biases and double standards she confronted. Bridget sheds light on the pressures of proving oneself, the emotional toll of being undervalued, and the relentless pursuit of fairness and recognition. Her current work aims to support law enforcement officers' mental health and decision-making, highlighting her commitment to fostering a healthier community and bridging societal gaps.
Listeners will find Bridget's candid narrative both inspiring and thought-provoking. From tales of grappling with internal investigations to navigating the societal shifts following events like the George Floyd incident, she offers a nuanced view of law enforcement's evolving landscape. Bridget's journey from cop to lawyer to advocate underscores the unpredictability of life's path and the importance of finding purpose amidst professional challenges. Her efforts to improve mental health among officers and her dedication to legal defense in harassment cases illuminate the broader implications of her work, making this episode a compelling exploration of service, advocacy, and transformation.
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all right, welcome back eric levine. Two cops, one donut. I am here with bridget truck zillow truck zillow yep, I got it close enough, all right. All right, folks, this is the first official recording that we've had in the new studio, so there's going to be some learning curve here. We're going to make sure all the equipment works just fine. You guys are kind of on this experimental journey with me. Bridget, thank you for joining me. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm good. How are you?
Speaker 1:I'm doing well. How do you in the podcast studio I think that I've recorded with so far. I apologize, because I finally got the temperature the way that it should be nice and crispy. Uh, got the what they call this mini split. Got the mini split going, so loving it, and my brain is uh not firing on all cylinders. We have a lot going on in the house, which you saw yeah I moved.
Speaker 1:So if you're wondering like why is all? Why where'd you get a new studio, this is actually still at my house, it's just a new house we moved and we're going through renovations, which you got to walk through that disaster zone and now this is my one little sanctuary that I got put together as fast as possible. I think we've been here two weeks so I did all this in two weeks unpacking is not fun no, not at all, no.
Speaker 1:So, um, I am not sure if you're familiar with kind of what the format of this podcast is, so I'll kind of give you a background on it. This the whole we were kind of talking offline beforehand. The point of the podcast is to bridge the gap with the community through education, perspective and humanizing.
Speaker 1:So, that's kind of what I do on this. I don't just do the law enforcement side, though. I also do the other side, which some people call so I've had felons, you know. People have been wrongly convicted. Community leaders, stuff like that Try to get both sides of the fence, learn from each other and then try to come up with some fixes for things, if we can, or if at a minimum share perspective and agree to disagree. But at least now you can tell if I'm full of shit or not, you know depending on who you are or whoever the guest is.
Speaker 1:If they come on and somebody gets to hear who you are, where you're from, get a little background on you and then we get into what your specialties are, and then they're gonna be like I don't. I don't buy what that person has to say maybe they do so that's the background with this um, but let's get on with the show. Let's get on with you here. First and foremost, bridget, tell us who you are, where you're from and what got you into a life of service, because you were in law enforcement at one time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my name is Bridget Truxillo. I'm a Gemini. I'm just kidding my birthday is.
Speaker 2:June 16th, in case anybody wants to write that down, cause I do like celebrating my birthday. Okay, um, just side sidebar. I did when I was like 24, which I'm way past that now. Um, I remember thinking, wow, this is weird, cause I still feel like I'm like 19, but I'm not, I'm 24. I'm be probably growing up, you know, and I can't remember. I was not at the sheriff's office yet and I just remember thinking, well, screw this, if I'm going to keep getting older, I'm going to have fun doing it. So I firmly believe in celebrating birthdays.
Speaker 2:so okay just putting that out, okay everyone, everybody's got one yep, everybody has one and you can't, can't eliminate it time keeps marching on yeah um, but I am, so I'm also have mom. I'm a mom of three kids. I have two girls that right now they're 13, 12, and my son is seven it's absolutely fabulous.
Speaker 2:Um, I have a wonderful husband. Uh, we live in houston, texas. Um, I did not grow up in houston, though I say I grew up in the south. I was born in louisiana and then in second grade, missouri grade, oklahoma, fourth grade, arkansas, seventh grade, louisiana, and then we finished high school there and then I hated high school because girls are mean and it's a good movie about it yeah, yep, two of them now.
Speaker 2:I don't even like to watch them. I think I can't it like triggers me. Um, and my daughters love them and they're like mommy, watch it with us. Like Nope, no, thank you. Um, also don't be like them.
Speaker 2:Um went to university of Florida for college, so to a 50,000 person, college didn't know anybody and it was great, um, but it turns out, my dad is one of six, so they grew up in this really small town in North Louisiana but for whatever reason, all my aunts ended up moving to the small Winter Haven, florida, which is about to get hurricane um, and then my uncle anyway. So now they all six live in this same town in Florida. So I have a lot of cousins and they all are in Florida.
Speaker 2:So when I went to University of Florida, even though I didn't know anybody, I still had a lot of family relatively close and all my cousins, except for a couple black sheeps, went to university florida. So it was great, it was a wonderful experience. And then, uh, fast forward. The week after I graduated I went to the police academy did you know going to college?
Speaker 1:what did you go to college for?
Speaker 2:um, I went to college I did not have a clue. Well, that's not true. Uh, what's the movie with tom Cruise where he was a tax attorney and he was chased by the mob? Oh yeah, the firm, the firm.
Speaker 2:I thought that looks cool. I'll do that. I'll be a lawyer when I grow up. But then somehow my first semester or so of college realized, wait a second, he's a tax attorney. That sounds awful. I don't know what my first major was, ended up choosing engineering because my uncle is an engineer and he's really nice. So I chose engineering. Also, not a reason to choose engineering because, fast forward to my fourth year at Florida, I hated it, absolutely hated it. It was miserable. All the math, all the sciences.
Speaker 2:I withdrew from school my dad accused me rightly so of losing my mind and being on drugs or something, because he couldn't figure out what I was doing. I went traveling by myself, went to new zealand for a month. It was amazing. Okay, came back. I no longer had a car. My dad took it back and sold it like it was. It was really mad at me, but I worked full time. So then I ended up finishing in environmental horticulture, because I was agricultural and biological engineering before that. I needed to get the stupid degree and then, when it came time to graduate, I thought, well, I don't want to do this for the rest of my life. And I was really starting to get into exercise like fitness and thought, well, I want to. I don't know if I'll have the motivation to do this for the rest of my life, because at that point I was early to mid-20s and I thought, well, I'm motivated now, but maybe if I pick a job that makes me be fit.
Speaker 1:To continue to stay motivated. So I was like well, I'll go into law enforcement Again.
Speaker 2:My dad thought that I was crazy and so I joined law enforcement. Nobody in my family has ever been in law enforcement before for two reasons One, because I thought I needed something to motivate me physically, but I am a true believer in right and wrong, rule of law, uh, constitutional, the constitution that we have. I mean, our country's not perfect, but I think it's still a wonderful and amazing country and I wanted to do my part to help with that. So I also considered military or something like that, but just went law enforcement and I with the goal of maybe being federal law enforcement someday. Because when I called the FBI and I was like I want to apply and she said, well, how old are you? And I said 24. She said, oh, you're too young, just go get some work experience. So I decided to do law. I said, well, should it be law enforcement? She said no, just just go be older. Get.
Speaker 2:And she said no, just go be older, get a life experience, yeah. So I went to the sheriff's office and loved it right away.
Speaker 1:Okay, so in joining the law enforcement side of things, with no ambition to do such. What was the outcry from your family? Was it a positive thing or a negative thing? What was the outcry from your family Was it a positive thing or a negative thing?
Speaker 2:I think they were just confused, uh, because it really. I mean I say nobody's ever done it. Um, certainly worried, definitely Cause, especially and I did, and it didn't get any better for them I went to patrol, but within a year I went to undercover narcotics. So I spent every day in the hood buying crack undercover. Yeah, narcotics. So I spent every day in the hood buying crack undercover. Okay, yeah, as you say, I bought crack for a living for three years.
Speaker 2:Um, and then, all right after that, right after I got narcotics, I tried out for SWAT team. And I remember calling my dad and said dad, you're not gonna believe what I did today. He said what honey? I said, well, I tried out for SWAT team. And I thought he was gonna say, oh my gosh, that's so amazing, how'd you do? And to me, oh my gosh, isn't it bad enough that you're on the narcotics unit? And I thought, well, what's that supposed to mean? So it never occurred to me that I was putting myself in even more danger by being on the SWAT team. And of course, now that I'm also a parent, like one day in the car, one of my kids said I want to be a cop when I grow up. I think one of my daughters one of my daughters said it and I was like, no, you will not.
Speaker 2:So yeah you know that initial trigger of protecting your kids. You know physically and also just mentally, as you know what the job does to you. So, yeah, I think that they were supportive, but not not knowing what to think about it, but also knowing there was absolutely no point in trying to talk me out of it.
Speaker 1:So when you were in and you got done with that first year, did you know that you wanted to do the narcotics line where you talked into it?
Speaker 2:Um.
Speaker 2:I was cause I was considering the FBI or DEA and I thought it was strategic. I thought that if I go into narcotics and get some specific uh experience in that way, that that would be more marketable to them. And also, I am not the fly on the wall type person. I go like all in or none. Um, I'm not.
Speaker 2:I like to be proactive. I, like you know, I'm the one that they would say you know shift ends at seven. They would say stop doing traffic stops at six Cause we don't want to get you know you. At seven. They would say stop doing traffic stops at six because we don't want to get you know you go get in trouble and we're all not going to get to go home. It's when shift change, whatever. So I made people mad a lot in the beginning because I was the one, like you know 6, 30 and the shifts they're supposed to, because we would have overlapping shifts. I worked at 3e to 3p to 3a and at 6, 6, 30 I'd do traffic stops. Well, the ones that are on day shifts that work seven to seven, they're like damn it bridget, like we want to go home at seven, stop it. And so I had to. I don't know, I made some people mad calm yourself down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't think I really calmed down that much. I just went to the narcotics unit, um, but they didn't have a female. So I knew that I had a good chance of getting on the narcotics unit because they had no female. And then also, knowing that I was very new to the community, and so people didn't know me. So it was upside in many ways, because nobody would identify me as a cop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because it's rare to go to a narcotics unit only a year in I don't advise it. But with that said, just like you were saying, there are some upticks and advantages to it. If you know how to talk to people, that all plays a part. You don't have to be the best street cop yet in order to go buy crack. I mean, it's so easy. A crackhead can do it.
Speaker 2:Yes, don't for a reason.
Speaker 1:Now I want to get into what your specialty was for law enforcement. So do you consider narcotics was your specialty or was it swat?
Speaker 2:that's a good question. Well, we were a call-out team for swat. We didn't. We weren't a full-time team okay although we trained all the time.
Speaker 2:Okay, um, especially, we competed in SWAT Roundup International in Orlando a couple times. Well, they've, they've done it several times, but I competed on it twice and so when we even we weren't doing regular SWAT training, we were training in the fall. It was, like this time of year, really one of the coolest times in my life of being able to train, physically train all the time. I've always said, thought or thought to myself that it's the closest I could ever get to being like a paid athlete right was training all.
Speaker 2:We would have like days where because one of the things is like a clearing the building scenario, so we would train for that all the time, or one of them is you have to jump over these half walls and go over and break in the door and then shoot some moving targets. Then come back and we would train for that and we would do the obstacle course. We'd do, we would do track workouts and obstacle course work and it was just the coolest thing ever now there's the not cool part of it where we're also on SWAT.
Speaker 2:so we have the call outs in the middle of the night where somebody's shooting a rifle out of his house into the neighborhood and as we all know here in law enforcement that not not many regular houses don't stop rifle rounds, so that was not a fun. So you're dealing with that kind of stuff or a hostage call out or whatever. So my primary job to go back to your question was narcotics unit and, like our jurisdiction, we had to have three buys from a house before we could get a search warrant. And if it was mine, then either I'm doing the buys or I have a snitch or somebody one of our guys doing the buys for me. Either way it's my investigation. So I got to get three, then I write the warrant, then I go get it signed and do all that stuff.
Speaker 1:So you were writing the warrants and all that stuff as a deputy.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Yeah, so you didn't have to be a detective.
Speaker 2:Typically for those listening, listening like a lot of agencies, you have to be a detective to write the warrants, stuff like that. Yeah, I can't remember because we would even write arrest warrants.
Speaker 2:You know we wrote search warrants, restaurants, um, so worked closely with our da's adas on that, um, and so I would say my specialty was narcotics um but at the same time you have to specialize in the training and I certainly did the physical training that goes into being the only female on SWAT, team Um and the as much as you can, especially early on in the career, to train yourself for the mindset necessary for all of that, and then we would do a lot of even on SWAT, and hopefully everybody does this and you could tell me if you and I've definitely listened to your interviews, but not all 100. I get you. I haven't gotten to it yet.
Speaker 2:We would do classroom exercises of walking through the what-ifs. Like we would go to Camp Blanding, which is an Army Reserve base in Florida, and spend a week training and there's always classroom days, and either that's competitions on breaking your gun down and putting it back together, or it's like talking through a hostage situation. The hostage taker comes out to get the pizza that the negotiator got for him and he turns around to go back in the house. Do you shoot? You know, and I'm going to tell you the answer to that is yes, you do. And people I mean I've said that to people, and especially non-law enforcement and they're like offended, like okay, now imagine it's your mom inside that house or your daughter inside that house. You want me to shoot or you want him to go back in and do whatever he thinks he's going to do to that hostage? Like well. And then they say stupid things like well, can't you just take his knee out, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no.
Speaker 2:So a lot of those what ifs you know, and visualizing.
Speaker 1:Hey y'all, eric Levine, Two Cops, one Donut. I'm out here currently on my military time and I thought I'd take a lot of really cool advancements in law enforcement. The biggest advancements in law enforcement, I think, are like fingerprints, dna testing and then, more recently I would say, license plate readers. Those things have all changed the game in law enforcement and now I think Peregrine is on that level. That's going to change it up. But I've had people ask me, what? What is Peregrine? And I want to talk about that. Now there's a caveat to it. Peregrine is so in-depth I'm only going to talk about one small feature that it's able to do, because I can't fit everything that they do in one little ad. All right, I'm going to take you on a little mental journey.
Speaker 1:So if you're law enforcement, you work for an agency. This is for you guys. So follow along with me. Imagine you're an investigator and you're working on a property crime. We'll say a property crime specifically like air conditioning thefts. That's a big one in Texas. You've had two cases this week alone and, typically speaking, unless you go talk to the other detectives that you work with, you're not going to know for at least a week or maybe a month or two that they also have AC thefts that are related to your thefts In investigations.
Speaker 1:There's like this internal gap of sharing information. Here's where Peregrine starts to flip things on its head, so to speak. Peregrine can sift through your reports and start to identify the detectives and the cases that match the similar MO to your cases that you're working, and it can bridge that information and present it to you in an easy to read package. Hold on, it gets better, I promise. Peregrine can scan your CAD, calls for related incidents and can even comb through suspect history in your report writing system. Like RMS, it's able to match possible suspects based on the MO and the geographical locations.
Speaker 1:But wait, the rabbit hole goes deeper. If you've got a suspect name, peregrine has the ability to analyze your stored body cam videos and search for that suspect's name and find videos of them to give you the most up-to-date contacts with that suspect. And what's great about that? As an investigator, you know your body cam has the ability to geolocate so you can see the latest locations, specifically where your suspect was last seen. This is just the tip of the iceberg and all I wanted to do with it is tease you guys enough just to seek out more information. So please reach out to me personally, dm me, or reach out to Peregrineio and just tell them that Eric Levine from Two Cops, one Donut sent you. I don't endorse things I don't believe in and I would stake my reputation on their product.
Speaker 2:Please check them out, because I know it's going to change law enforcement even things like visualizing clearing a stairwell, um, you know, like if you're entering, you're going in a building and it's a lot of stairs. Like stairwells are scary and we, when we would do the sim guns and shoot each other. The number of times you get shoot in a stairwell is a lot, and it hurts, yeah, so um, can I say, can I say uh, a dual specialty because I really loved the swat and also didn't towards the end um, because I they'd never had a female on the team before, and most swats have, it right yeah?
Speaker 2:and I do have a. I have an opinion that probably a lot of people would be surprised about, on whether or not I think women should be on those teams. Um, but for me it was.
Speaker 1:It's okay answer your question, it's both okay, good, I just need a track so I know which way to go down for the education part. Okay, so I want to first we've had narcotics on here several times and I haven't had a female narcotic person on here, but we've had very few SWAT people. So what is even more unicorn and this is kind of the part that I want to tell people SWAT is the one percent of police, like it's already very hard to get on in most cases, unless you live in a County that just doesn't even have enough officers period, and so they're like your SWAT, your SWAT go train go do this.
Speaker 2:No, I had to try out.
Speaker 1:So right. So in that being the 1% of police, then being a female, that where I'm at I'm in one of the 15 largest departments in the nation there's no females in the SWAT unit. I don't I believe only ones ever made it through the actual tryout. And then even after that I don't know that it worked out I think she ended up getting pregnant, or something like that and then just you know couldn't do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's rare, it doesn't happen very often. So what I would like to know, just to get started, was one what was the? What was the training to get it? I shouldn't say training. What was the test? What was the test, like just to qualify to be on swat, and when people heard that you were going to try out as a female, what was your reception like?
Speaker 2:You know I should go. I'm still. I can also say the circumstances of my leaving led me to not talk to a single guy that I worked with for over 13 years. That's part of the tragedy of the story? I think not because I believe in being positive poly, not debbie downer, so I choose to not live in that. And also, I did live in that for a long time because I was so mad at how I left but to answer your question.
Speaker 2:I need to ask one of the guys because recently, like I went to a conference and also I hate when people say like, so I'm going to chop, I'm not going to do that again.
Speaker 1:Okay, I say so quite a bit. It's like my lead, you know or right or people.
Speaker 2:there's a lot of things Literally.
Speaker 1:As soon as you start hearing them people say.
Speaker 2:I just said like oh no, and I have two teenage daughters so I'm always telling them stop saying like Anyway, I randomly bumped into one of my former my SWAT I count my SWAT guys at a conference that I went to in April. He walked up to me and tapped me on the shoulder and it's like Bridget. I looked over and I was like yes, he's a giant, and I was like what?
Speaker 2:And I like pushed him, I was like get out, and so it was a great to see him. I need to text him and say, by the way, what was our tryout? Because he was on it for after I left. But anyway, I know we started before the sun came up and it was.
Speaker 1:we started with a run and did you get a random call in the middle of the night, like it starts now.
Speaker 2:We knew what was gonna happen, we knew when to show up um my swat unit where I'm at they.
Speaker 1:They treat it like it's a swat. Call out, oh so you don't know. They just give you a window like we could call you here, we call there.
Speaker 2:I think it typically is on a Saturday, but I think ours was a Thursday or Friday showed up for the sun started. We lined up in two columns, went for a run, came back, drove somewhere else I know that the day into included it went somewhere that had an obstacle course, had to do the whole obstacle course, which at the end of it had a dummy that you had to drag to get into the SWAT van. And same, obviously no different rules for me, nor should it ever be for female in law enforcement period.
Speaker 1:Same standards all the way across. Same standards all the way across.
Speaker 2:And then at some point we were repelled. We had a shooting. I don't think it was a, I don't think it was moving targets, 't think it was moving targets. So just stationary targets, metal plates, knock them down. You know an interview. I think that was the whole day.
Speaker 1:What was the interview like?
Speaker 2:oh, I think the whole SWAT team. They're in a semi-circle staring at me asking me questions. Um, maybe that was I was nervous when I started and I was probably nervous for that. Maybe that was I was nervous when I started and I was probably nervous for that. Um, but yeah, I mean I did it all. I did the dummy drag. I put my fingers into the feet of the dummy and pull them to the spot. Then I got him in and I thought I'd never unpeel my fingers again, but it was again. It was one of the coolest days of my life, you know what year were we talking?
Speaker 1:2001, coolest days of my life you know, what year were we talking?
Speaker 2:2001.
Speaker 1:I don't see you're making me what?
Speaker 2:that's a year I graduated your mouth yep, I'm a lot older than you one. I am 49, okay I will be 50 years old next year and you know that snl skit where she goes I'll be 50 and I can kick yeah and I can stretch. I'm gonna do that on my 50th birthday and I'm going to post it on social media.
Speaker 1:I like it. Yeah, it's part of the benefits. If you guys stay fit is you don't look your age. So I work really hard at it.
Speaker 2:So I also have a seven year old and I'm 49. So I've highly motivated to enjoy my son's life for a very long time Not to look like grandma at their graduation. Oh no, I saw something at the day like the ladies on gold. Uh, golden girls were younger than me when they were on the show yeah, I saw that too.
Speaker 2:I don't know if that's exactly true, because I'm looking at them like they're like I know it's hard to gauge it because the fashion was different and everything else, and the hair was different. But come on, I mean Rose had. No, those ladies had to have been in their 60s. Yeah, in the show.
Speaker 1:I think so.
Speaker 2:Betty White. Somebody please respond to this and look into it, yeah we'll have to.
Speaker 1:I wish I had a second person to do this. One day, one day when we expand a little more, I'll have a person back there. Hey, Jamie, look that up. That's right, like Joe Rogan so yeah, Now going through the training in itself, there's a lead up. You're telling people in the department like, yeah, I'm going to try.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, so I submitted my name with no like cheering squad. I didn't go tell everybody I was going to do that. So you didn't go tell everybody I was going to do that. So you didn't tell anybody? I don't think so, because I knew without knowing. I knew, you know that the grapevine within a police department, sheriff's office, whatever, is faster than no other.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So within no time at all, everybody definitely knew I put my name in. You know, probably I had a like, oh shit, like, here you go moment you know, I wish I'd made a copy of the memo back then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because back then you still put everything on a memo. Do they still put everything on a memo in law enforcement? Yeah, like on actual paper. Yeah, return OK, so they still hold on to paper. Ok, because I didn't know if it went all digital, which actually that's not true. I know that's not true because I have clients who get written up and I see it and it's all in memos where everybody has to like initial pass up on whatever.
Speaker 2:Okay, so silly question. Um, and then I remember we were at around the same time like I wanted to do something like that and they put together this crowd control team and I tried out for that and it was being put together. The SWAT commander was helping them kind of put it together. So I he was there, so I think it was. I think we were at the range for the crowd control team or something Otherwise. I don't remember why I was at the range, but I did have a really good sheriff at the time who gave us a lot of training, lot of good. We always had good equipment. We did a lot of training. Um, and I remember exactly where I was. I was on the range and one of the guys I went to the police academy with called me. I was at the sheriff's office. He was at police department inside my county and he goes and I was like hey, what's up? And he says, oh, hey, I heard you put your name in for SWAT team.
Speaker 1:And then like, first of all from a whole other department okay, how you know that.
Speaker 2:And I said yeah. And he said, well, do you really think that's a good idea? And I like, well, I'll be, I do yeah. And then thinking to myself, we're obviously not friends anymore, because why would you I mean to be again if I was going to be positive Polly about it? Maybe he was worried about it, maybe he was worried about me, maybe he was trying to protect me from what he thinks that could happen with that. And but in my mind I thought, screw you.
Speaker 2:I mean of course I'm. Why would I not like I know what I'm doing, I I'm not I mean, you obviously have a history of rebelling anyway yeah, so yes, yes I could see that being your initial reaction like fuck you, I, you, I'm doing it. Right. So you know, I knew I didn't expect to face like physical abuse from people. Yeah. Like punching me out of the way, anything like that. But I definitely did not know what to expect in terms of what the team would be like.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Working, you know training together and all that, but I figured it out Okay, so in that process would be like, yeah, working you know, training together and all that, but I figured it out okay.
Speaker 1:So in that process of finding out, like you know, having somebody call you from another department, was that like the did the light bulb go off? Like oh shit, what did I just do? Or were you still into it?
Speaker 2:you're like, ah, he's, he's an idiot I didn't have the, I didn't question myself on whether I should do it.
Speaker 1:I think I probably just thought all right, here we go yeah did you anticipate pushback from the people, either from the team or from those that you were trying out against?
Speaker 2:I mean for sure expected pushback, definitely with the old timers, um meaning everybody in charge because, there were plenty of other green like me um or also I knew like I was going into swat team.
Speaker 1:I mean, most people have military experience um I didn't have any of that yeah I was just eager and yeah so part of the benefit to that that I I tell people all the time I'm like that out of the people I see putting in, we'll just say for swat, that kid's gonna be good. And they're like he's brand new. You know, zero to five years usually considered a rookie in the city police life yep and uh, I'm like yeah, but that's kind of the benefit, he's a blank slate, yeah, like he's only going to learn from operators and like that's going to mold him into a good person, like a good swap, or I am not a swap person.
Speaker 1:Uh, if you can't tell just by the shirt and the star wars stuff, I'm not a swag guy, so for me it is a, it's a. I don't want anything to do with SWAT. Maybe when I was younger I might have, before I had kids, but now with kids and family life and all that stuff, they don't like it that I'm in patrol.
Speaker 1:You know, working midnights but I got to have a little fun and I like to train so I like to teach young officers and stuff like that. So seeing you come in and hearing you say you know being green, I get the negative connotation of that. But we're not talking about street patrol where. I think you do have to be more versed in policing, but SWAT is like that's automatic pilot once you get going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, the training just takes over and you get to operating with a team and working side by side with those people all the time you know their moves, they know your moves. So I understand. And for those listening that are like, well, what's the big deal? Like that's the big deal. The big difference is a big difference between being in the street and being zero to five years and being on a SWAT team and being that zero to five years because you are being trained a specific way for specific events. You know hostage situations, barricaded persons. What other stuff does SWAT respond to?
Speaker 2:And our team would execute search warrants.
Speaker 1:Certain agencies.
Speaker 2:maybe yours is big enough to where you have like maybe your narcotics unit trained for that They'll have like a tactical team to do it where you don't have full on SWAT calling out for it Both.
Speaker 1:If they can get SWAT, they'll have like a tactical team to do it where you don't have full-on.
Speaker 2:SWAT, calling out for both if they can get SWAT, they'll take SWAT.
Speaker 1:If SWAT's busy, then they'll use one of those side tag teams.
Speaker 2:So we did all the search warrant execute, like you know securing the hat, clearing and securing the house or whatever it was yeah, a lot of mobile homes get to have all the fun and leave all the paperwork for them. Yep yeah, well then that was on their caddy's unit, so we would do the SWAT thing and then their SWAT would leave, and then we would. That would sort of you know.
Speaker 1:I was gonna say how did that work for you?
Speaker 2:where I would say, like, okay, now I get to stay here and search this nasty house and talk to the drug dealers and screw that.
Speaker 1:I'm only doing one or the other yeah, if it's mine like I'm only doing one or the other, like I'm not doing both.
Speaker 2:I was also young and eager and energetic, because you're not getting paid anymore. No, right, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:No, screw that. People are wondering like, what do you mean? Like she would literally have to go plan the operation and before that she had proven that the house has dope in it. They had to get a warrant for it. And then going to get the warrant signed. They get that she's doing all that because she's on narcotics and then she's like all right, now we got a search warrant and then switch over to swat. All right, let's plan an operation here's the house I've seen it.
Speaker 1:This is what we need to do yeah, I would brief the swat team if it was my search warrant oh my god, yeah, I'm exhausted, yeah including the layout of the house and what the yard looks like, and dogs and like all the things this is the difference between city cops and being in a sheriff's department working for a whole county like this is. It's. It's just different. They operate different, um, and if you're in a big city like I am like we have the, we have some advantages but at the same time, we don't get as much experience right in such a short period of time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, honestly, that's, that's really, that's true, and I came from a smaller department before that and you, you were the one that led you. You followed through the whole. You didn't just take a report and then pass it off to a detective no you did everything, so kind of similar to what you guys are talking about. Yeah, now getting into your training, you, you go out, you try out. Now there's a waiting period to figure out who's made it. What was that experience like?
Speaker 2:I think I tried out around November, because that's when they put me on the narcotics unit and then they put me on the team in January.
Speaker 1:So there had to have been a point where you go through the trial and you make it, which would have sent shockwaves through the department right away. What was it like when they found out this motherfucker made it?
Speaker 2:I don't know honestly, you had to be walking around tall.
Speaker 1:I would have been, even as a dude. I would have been walking around tall. That you made it, because it's not easy.
Speaker 2:I for sure held my head high. Yeah, the women in the department, like the ladies in the evidence room or our secretary in the narcotics unit. We called her mom. She would walk me around and be like come over here, let's go talk to so-and-so, and she would always. I mean so there was that. And like, bridget, come over here, let's go talk to so-and-so, and she would always. I mean so there was that the women were impressed. Not necessarily, the female deputies were not necessarily impressed. Oh, haters yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that changed a little bit as I was leaving, because we hired more people, hired some younger women and I think they were very like wanting to talk to me about my experience.
Speaker 1:And how can I, what should I do? And I haven't been jaded by the career yet, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is I mean we're one girl on time. We, this former Marine on our team, total normal Marine like, just looks like a bulldog you know, but great guy Would want him on by my side at any time, that shit hits the fan.
Speaker 2:Keep a box of crayons handy, always keep them happy, right, and one time we would do this PT test and our sheriff for a little while. He gave us like a financial incentive, like if you pass this PT test, I'll give you money, I'll give you extra days off, you can choose the way you want it. Well, we would help with the PT test, like running I don't remember what it was, running long, I don't know whatever.
Speaker 1:Like monitor it. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Time it whatever. Yeah, and I remember talking to this girl one time and she's like, oh, I could fight anybody. And I'm like I'm sorry what? And because I was never stupid enough to think that I would fight on my own, like, if I had to, I would certainly want to survive, to live another day, but I never. You know, I lived in a county where sometimes, especially when I was in patrol, and obviously that wasn't a very long time but I remember one time I was way out in one of the far zones by myself pull somebody over, and the guy had a warrant and so I had to. I just, you know, never like called for backup because there's no way I was going to put my hand. A guy like I'm never like. That's what I tell people, I tell my daughters this like you're never stronger than a guy ever.
Speaker 2:You just we have different chemical makeup and so, and plus, when people don't want to go to prison, they can become all of a sudden very strong yeah and so I didn't put I never put my hands on anybody if I without bag of, if I didn't have to and so and it was pitch black, like dark as the black on these walls, and so but for my strobe and my lights, the headlights I mean, if he would have run into the woods he was gone or fight me and drag me in the goods, whatever, and so I waited and I was really good at oh sorry gosh, they're taking. I had like an earpiece, you know, so they couldn't hear my radio.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I was like gosh, they're taking forever, I'm so sorry. And then, as soon as my backup shows up and the guy I don't remember who it was and he's like okay, okay, you're under arrest, turn around, put your hands behind your back. Um, god bless, why was I telling you that story? Cause I can still visualize that so well.
Speaker 1:You're talking about oh?
Speaker 2:so this girl? She said I could fight anybody. I said I'm sorry, what? And she's like yeah, just give me. She's like see, gainer over, there'll be all right. I said you are going to get someone killed. You're either going to get yourself killed or you're going to get one of your teammates, your whatever people you work with, killed. You are out of your mind. I literally said that to her. You're going to die or you're going to get one of your teammates killed.
Speaker 2:Like running code to you because you're getting killed and they got to come help you. I said, please, please, tell me you're joking. So that was the one downside to these the fresh, the newbies coming in, the rookies.
Speaker 1:You inspired them to unreasonable ends.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, I said please tell me you're joking and so anyway. So I think the question was what did I expect from the coming in? Yes, I was proud of myself. I knew I had passed. There was absolutely no reason for them to not pick me. I knew how many positions were open. I knew, I think they put like one or two on there before me. So I knew my time was coming, um, and just kind of waited, and then I really believed I would get it. Okay, I really did and I did. So I thought well, Okay, I really did.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I did so. I thought, well good, it's all, good they put me on the team. I mean still knowing I should expect something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, All the new people on SWAT. As far as I know, they get shit on until new people come in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're called FNGs. Yes, Fucking new guys for those women, yeah or yeah.
Speaker 1:We're girls and that's part of SWAT is very old school team military style ran units and I don't know that that's ever changed. I'm not on SWAT so I can't speak for their day to day. But I do see. You know, when a new guy's on there, you see him running back and forth with the gear getting all the stuff. Meanwhile the whole team's just sitting back like that's old school military stuff, um, and it has a point, it's not done for no reason.
Speaker 1:You earn your spot, you earn your spot yeah just because you made the team just because you pass the tryout. It's just getting started and I want to kind of go back to a point you made and and again. This is the caveat that I was never on SWAT but part of me being I'm still in the military. I am very team oriented, no matter where I'm at.
Speaker 2:I think you get that from the military.
Speaker 1:I agree. I think it is a military thing. I am so team oriented I know that I can't give SWAT what they need and I would get somebody, maybe not necessarily hurt. I don't think I'd ever leave somebody hanging and I'm not gung ho like where I go make them have to get in a firefight because I did something stupid. It's just I couldn't dedicate the time to the team that the team deserves. So for me, that's where I say I'm not SWAT material, but that's the mindset you need to have, Because if the team doesn't come before you know God and country, then you shouldn't be on it. That's how I look at SWAT. It doesn't mean I'm right, but I revere SWAT that way that I would never go for that because I can't give them the time that they deserve.
Speaker 2:Not even when you're a rookie.
Speaker 1:I may have tried yes, um, but again, I think I wanted swat when I was young yeah because of the name yeah, yeah I didn't want it they give us this teeny, tiny little pin. Yeah, that was about this long you didn't have the swat rocker.
Speaker 2:No it was when I was in uniform and it said my maiden name's barragona, and so I had my last thing tagged. It said barragona and then right above it is this little on a green pin, on a green uniform with gold letters. It said swat. And so this is like the stupid stuff. People say I would work some football games, you know, like overtime stuff part-time gigs and so I'm standing at the, the turnile people coming in.
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Speaker 2:Tell them people would say if they looked at all or if they were sober enough to read what my uniform said. You know, because people come into University of Florida football games and they're not sober.
Speaker 1:God bless them, whatever.
Speaker 2:And if they got close enough, they were like, I mean the comments I would get like SWAT, like that. It meant anything else other than that I was actually SWAT and I don't think I did that very often because I was also on. I didn do that very often. Oh no, yeah, I did do that at some point because, also when I was on SWAT, we were part of the, the tactical team hidden in the stadium for when the shit hits the fan, especially after 9-11. So they staged us inside. We'd have to get there way before the game started, so people didn't see us go in because they didn't want to look too aggressive, and then we'd just be in the game inside the stadium waiting in case, and then as soon as the game was over, we could pack all our stuff out and put on, change into regular clothes yeah and walk out with everybody else.
Speaker 2:So it wasn't that many times I would have been standing at the front gates like helping people, but people like see anyway. So yeah, this teeny tiny little pin, I have it. That was one of the things I took. I have one of my, the star from the sheriff's office and I have my little teeny SWAT pin.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think our SWAT guys they do a good job of like you guys think you're going to come in here, wear this rocker because ours wear a rocker, and a rocker for those that don't know, it's a patch that goes above your shoulder patch and it says SWAT. And they think you're going to come in here and get the SWAT rocker and then that's the end of it and you're just going to be a showpiece for the ladies and all this stuff. And it's just not how it's going to be.
Speaker 2:Also very different for women, because the uniform has a big appeal for the ladies Right. It's a very odd effect for a female to be in uniform and the attention or not that you get for it. It's very different.
Speaker 1:I've seen it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Literally. I've seen females that I've worked with get a new boyfriend and they purposely avoid telling them for the longest time of what it is they actually do definitely don't tell them if you're on swat, because then it's doomed, I bet doomed. You know, I watched a good movie that kind of demonstrated gi jane, that's what it was yeah, people used to.
Speaker 2:I joke and say, um, what did you? What made you get into law enforcement? Say, well, I watched gi jane and I thought that was really cool and I joke. And also no disrespect to any of the actual SEAL team guys.
Speaker 1:I don't think they'll take offense, which is not true.
Speaker 2:Actually, that was not even possible at the time, because I think women are allowed on those teams after 2013,.
Speaker 1:I think and it was 2001,. So I couldn't have tried out. For yeah, um seals and and just to give people a reference point.
Speaker 2:She was a cop doing this prior to body cameras, yeah, so prior to cell phone cameras yeah, yeah, they.
Speaker 1:They may have existed, but they were like a megapixel no, we had like.
Speaker 2:Did they have cameras on them? They might have just started coming out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the cameras definitely not video right, I mean no social media yeah, you myspace was still a. Thing not facebook, yeah, myspace, really dating myself, I had an actual rolodex on my desk. Some of your listeners might not even know what a rolodex is or what a landline is right, telling them that, or having dial up yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:Because I started college in one and that's when the towers were hit was. I was on my way to school and I remember going into class telling the professor I'm going home and I don't think anybody else is going to show up and him saying why. And I said the towers are just attacked like they're smoking on the news, right? Now.
Speaker 1:Everybody's out in the lobby watching the news and he goes, he goes. Well, it's not going to be an excused absence. Oh my yeah. Until he realized what it actually was, he didn't realize the gravity of what was going on. I was working patrol.
Speaker 2:Then and again I worked 3p to 3a and I had worked the night before and my boyfriend came in he's like somebody just flew up and we had just gone to new york for wedding and we stayed at the Marriott connected to the World Trade Center. Wow. And he came and said somebody just flew a plane into the World Trade Center, one of the towers, and I was like you woke me up for this, like I need to sleep. Right.
Speaker 2:He says, no, they think it's a terrorist. Well, I got up in time to see the second plane hit and then, of course, and I worked that night, it was the craziest day to work in Longford the quietest day in the United States, I think because they told us don't do anything, do not be proactive, just stay where you are. But we didn't know. It still gives me the chills. We don't know if there's another attack coming. We didn't know any of that. So everybody just went and got in their troll cars and just sat.
Speaker 1:Hunkered down, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Every time a fire truck would go by, everybody was clapping, Clapping oh, the firefighters. And then we'd show up and like what the fuck do you want? Like you see the firefighters go by Like there were cops in there too. Dang it, we can be good people.
Speaker 1:Right. I remember seeing the second plane hit and I was so naive I'm like that.
Speaker 2:Air control traffic air control guy is an idiot, but you know, I think that's what everybody's like no way. And then you hear about the pentagon, and then you hear about the one in pennsylvania. Then you're like oh crap I remember telling my buddy.
Speaker 1:He's like no, I think it might be terrorists. And this wasn't a thing yet, like nobody knew. I'm like you're stupid. Why would terrorists go after that building? It doesn doesn't even make sense. Like what? Who cares? I was young dumb. Yeah, I thought I knew everything. Now I'm just old and dumb, but I know I don't know everything. So that's. That's where I'm at.
Speaker 1:So I I'm just it is fun for me to hear that I again if I know today, if a female were to try out for our SWAT team where I'm at, it would go through like, oh my God, and the difference may be for for the times, how they've changed. I think everybody'd be pretty pumped and kind of like rooting for the underdog.
Speaker 2:You mean now or then.
Speaker 1:Now, I think everybody'd be rooting for the underdog because it's cool, like it doesn't happen. So for me I'd be like yeah, let's go, like, hey, you need any help. Yeah, what can I do to help?
Speaker 2:like this would be fun.
Speaker 1:I was definitely on an island, yeah, for sure it'd be cool if you made it um yeah, it'd be cool if you made it because you deserve it, not cool if you made it just because you're a female. I hate that. Don't get me started on that shit no don't, like you said, don't lower the standards if you can reach and meet all the standards that the whole team has to meet that's the way to go yeah I'm in.
Speaker 2:I'm in that way because and I was I mean I don't think I could I was certainly busting my ass, and always to prove to all of them that I was, that I earned it, that through my narcotics investigations, through my you know my participation on swat, like you're talking about fng, like you told me to go do something and I was running to go do it. Like wash the van. I will wash this van better than anybody's ever. I'm going to wax it and then, of course, we can talk about it.
Speaker 2:But then I started making mistakes, Because all people make mistakes, but I always say raise your hand if you've never made us make it work. My mistake was like one time I forgot to lock the van one of the doors on our SWAT van in our secure compound at the sheriff's office and we can talk about that later and I got in so much trouble for it. Well, I wasn't the only FNG in charge of the van that day.
Speaker 2:So things like that is what really started to accumulate. But I mean, if there was something to be done, I volunteered for it. If there was something to be done, I volunteered for it. If there was something to be cleaned, I did it.
Speaker 1:If there was something to be swept, I swept it, and I didn't, you know, I didn't cut corners and so did you feel that you were and I mean to cut you off but did you feel like you knew, or you were trying to specifically, or I should say intentionally, step up more than anybody else? Yeah, just because you were a female, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:I knew I would have to take it meaning the FNG.
Speaker 2:I mean you get to clean the van, you're not going to be on an entry team for a long time. I knew all of that. But to keep showing them that I can do these clearing room exercises, I can do the shooting, I can do the running, I can do the like, just say, okay, time after time after time, they're going to add me, do it, and I do it. Bridget, go do this. I did it. Bridget, keep track of this, I did it. I mean just yes, okay, yes, please, please, can I have more? And knowing and knowing that I would always have to be 100% and they didn't have to show up at 100%, and I knew that and I wasn't mad about that part because I know I have 100% to give or at least I did.
Speaker 2:Then they took up a lot of that 100% during those years because I lost the give AF after that for a long time. But yeah, I mean it was part of being the team and I knew you had to earn it and I knew that wasn't unique to me. I mean, I saw the other fngs around me and they all you know like there's three of us one time um around the same level, yeah, but then eventually I shouldn't have been the fng but I still was.
Speaker 1:You know, like some younger guys would come in so new people came in and you were still being treated. I was still the FNG Okay. So, do you think during that time that they were putting stuff on you Like they do with all the FNGs? Do you? Think that they were putting more on you and doing it intentionally to try to push you out.
Speaker 2:I mean, do I think that, yes, Do I think there was always an explicit, out loud conversation that I'm having somewhere about that? I don't know. Do I think it was there? And I hate to use this word, bias, because it's a stupid world we live in nowadays, but do I? Or that they were like, oh no, let's just make that. No, no, no, and it wasn't like I'm going to do this, so you never succeed. They didn't like it, it didn't feel right to them and so I would never succeed.
Speaker 2:I was never going to be able to get into like be the entry team, or it ended next to be like we had team leaders in SWAT, or captains, whatever you called them. I didn't expect to be that, but I did expect to just move up a rung on the ladder to prove to you I could do it. I mean, like I said, two years I competed on SWAT competitions and for that we had to try out within our own team to make the SWAT competition team, and I did that twice. I beat out some of my own SWAT operators to make the competition team. And then at SWAT Roundup and I think, TTO Texas Tactical Office Association, they just had their competition. I think all the events are mostly the same, but that you take six teams, six people, but each day only five compete. So that means even in the actual competitions one person's sitting out I didn't sit out, so I was always better than even of the you know somebody and you know after doing that for a couple years and then still never moving up a rung.
Speaker 2:And every single time I did anything wrong it was letter in my file six months probation, 500 mountain climbers, I mean all things that happened and did I make a mistake? And at first I was like you're right, I made a mistake, I'll do better next time. You're right, I made a mistake, I will do better. But then eventually you, eventually you're like okay, I wonder what I'm gonna do wrong. Today as I show up to work and I can you just please leave me alone for a day.
Speaker 2:I mean, it was really really got to the point where and where I quit, where I said I can't keep doing this. I can't keep, I don't know how to do this job differently. I'm never gonna be a person that just shows up and gets in the patrol car and goes to take a nap under a tree out in the middle of nowhere. It's never going to be me. I'm always going to find a way to be aggressive in what I do and not making that a bad word or proactive, and I don't know how to do this another way. And also knowing, I mean I knew I would encounter those types of quote-unquote battles, being a female in law enforcement in some way. So, yes, at first it was that it just became, I think, explicitly, because I know it happened explicitly and because he's told me to my face. My lieutenant of narcotics was also commander of SWAT team. Told me three times out loud the only reason you're on this team is because the captain made me put you on the team.
Speaker 1:Damn.
Speaker 2:This is after I helped him play some like the top 20, the top 10 in SWAT roundup and yeah, holy shit.
Speaker 2:And the last one, we were working out Now only two of us in the gym working out and he said it to me and I don't know how it came up, but I remember looking and turn around. Looking at him, I said lieutenant, and I said boy, said lt. I heard you the first two times and turned around and I finished my workout because I'd be damned if he was, you know, like, intimidate me yeah whatever. And then I left and and thought God, this sucks so bad.
Speaker 1:Now, when they were doing the write-ups or getting you in trouble for whatever are they giving you ways to improve.
Speaker 2:Did I get a plan for improvement? No, I did not.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that's a big red flag for me.
Speaker 2:Yep, this is how clearly I say that I didn't know pips were a thing.
Speaker 1:No, so they weren't even explained to you.
Speaker 2:This is what you did wrong. We're putting this letter. Read this letter, sign it. We're putting it in your file. Yeah, Okay, Well, I mean, maybe there was a stop it? I don't, but do I remember getting like, here's how you need to improve. If you can't do this right now, you have 90 day, Like no, you're on probation for three months. 500 mountain they didn't write the 500 mountain climbers down, but I did get 500 mountain climbers. I made a mistake that day. I was late for something.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I can also say that I mean I can give an example after example, after example.
Speaker 2:Like one time I got in trouble for we had a briefing on our SWAT gear had my MP5 with me because I don't, I was going to get on the bread van. I always drove, I drove the equipment van, which I called the bread van. But I'm going to have my MP5 with me just in case I get to actually do something or if you need me to help and I need to go to the bathroom. Well, the room full of SWAT people go. So I went to the bathroom, came back, they were gone. My MP5 was laying on the table. I got written up for it because I left my gun. Okay, you're right. Okay, I should have taken the gun to the girls' room with me.
Speaker 2:But, also it's a room full of SWAT people. And so, anyway, another time I we were in the parking lot all staging Again parking lot, all staging again. Parking lot, full of SWAT people in tactical gear, all the things helmets, whatever. I left my door open for a while, ran into the department to get something, came back out still there. I got written up for leaving my car door open. Fast forward, we were doing a in the summertime, training in a school like active shooter in a school. This was not that long after Columbine. Yes, unfortunately school shootings happened too much, but at the time that was a really big deal. Part of the thing with Columbine was that they waited too long for the SWAT or tactical teams to show up.
Speaker 1:That's why we go in now. That's why you go in.
Speaker 2:You train, train, train to go clear that building and save people, because people died because they didn't get to them fast enough. We were training for that and we took a break. And again it's high school in the summer. In the hood we come out and my one of my sergeants my narcotics sergeant and also a captain on the SWAT team his windows down, corridors open, trunks open, so he has ar-15, benelli, shotgun, mp5, um grenades, flashbangs, ammunition, all in his car and yeah, okay I had a benelli in my car I did, like the benelli I'm
Speaker 2:telling you, our sheriff was really good he got us a lot of equipment, some good gear and so his car was wide open and nobody said a word, didn't, nobody flinched, nobody said anything, and I can guarantee you that every time I got in trouble, everybody knew what I did wrong and how I got in trouble yeah, none of the other fngs were getting written up during your your new person window.
Speaker 1:No, oh damn yeah okay, yeah, and I hate saying it, but it's hard to imagine something like that working today. But I'm sure it does, I'm sure it still exists it does because I have clients fair enough, I mean as an attorney.
Speaker 2:Now fast forward. I went, you know, left, went to law school, which we can talk about that, but I specialize and I didn't always. I mean about four years ago now. I hated law firm life Hated.
Speaker 1:Hold on, before we jump that far ahead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm still yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Still on the SWAT thing.
Speaker 2:So it still happens, is my point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you're. You're on the team.
Speaker 2:You're getting treated like shit. How long did this go on? For two and a half years. So you did SWAT for two and a half years. Did you ever become an active operator?
Speaker 2:No, um, I mean, I was part of the team and every everybody went on call outs or search warrants, whatever. One time one of the guys on my narcotics unit was also on SWAT and he's one of the one of the captains and he so the captains would put together who was going to do the entry for like search warrants. One time he put me on entry and I didn't carry the shield. I can't remember if I was the flashbang person. I don't think so.
Speaker 2:I think I was probably like team, you know, on the stack of people that go in to enter. You have the two shields or you have a shield with a battering ram, depending on the situation, and usually somebody's behind that to throw in the flash, flash, bang once you get the door opens and then you, you know, you go, go, go, go, go, and I think I was probably team member five or six, maybe that was seven, I don't remember okay but I got to clear a mobile home funny side story that we threw that flashbang in and that mobile home was such a piece of crap that it burned and went straight to the ground.
Speaker 1:I could have told you that was going to happen.
Speaker 2:That's funny, and then they sent us a bill, wanted us to fix their door and the floor of their mobile home, and we were always like here's a thought how about you not sell drugs out of your house?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Right, mobile meth lab over here.
Speaker 2:that's right yeah thank god, it wasn't that I mean when I left, meth labs were starting to be a thing in the area, and that was something we were all scared of, like bad scared yeah, because that red phosphorus is.
Speaker 1:That was. That was that bad.
Speaker 2:Obviously I can't remember what the bad thing is if you who would have known I mean the point we were scared of that we would go to execute a search warrant for what we knew of. But maybe they would start, you know, like if there was a meth lab there that we didn't know about and you throw in a flash bang and everybody's going to die. So, that was starting to be a real concern.
Speaker 1:One of my. Are you ready for something exciting? I'm Eric Levine from Two Cops One Donut podcast and we've teamed up with Ghost patch to bring you guys something epic. Check out our brand new metal badges handcrafted by the experts at ghost patch. These high quality custom badges are a perfect way to show your support to law enforcement, our podcast and they're just playing pretty cool. Stay tuned for an exclusive collaboration of merchandise coming soon. You'll be able to get your hands on these limited edition badges and more. You'll be able to find them at Ghostpatchcom and 2Cops1Donutcom. Keep an eye out for new releases. Don't miss out. Grab yours soon With 2Cops1Donut and Ghostpatch. Gear up and stand out. One of my buddies on our SWAT team showed me his body cam footage.
Speaker 1:He's throwing a flashbang up on a second story window throwing a flashbang up on a second story window and he fucks up when he goes to throw it and it hits the downspout, oh no, and comes right back out and blows like probably just a few feet above his head.
Speaker 2:Oh, no yeah.
Speaker 1:You just hear him on his camera go oh fuck yeah. Like he knew instantly.
Speaker 2:But it was loud, yeah, and blinding.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I tease him, but he's one of those guys who's been on SWAT shit probably just as long as I've been a cop.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you look at him and I mean, eventually you should rotate off, but I mean Probably just like you.
Speaker 1:You look at him and you're like no way, no way is this guy SWAT? Oh yeah. There's no possible way and he'll outrun you. He outperforms. You get a look at him and I hope he's listening to this. Todd, I'm talking about you. You look at Todd and he's a badass.
Speaker 2:Oh people still do it. If I say, oh, what would you do? And I say, well, whatever, and I was on SWAT, I'd get the look me up and down and they'd go really, yeah, no, I'm lying yeah, why would you say that you, if you make that shit up, you deserve like that's just stupid. Yeah, but yeah, it was the look up and down like that, like look, look of disbelief um, but I get pumped.
Speaker 1:I like that, I like that stuff. I like when somebody breaks the mold, I love it.
Speaker 2:I loved that part of it. No, I don't, but I was. I have the pictures to prove it.
Speaker 1:Gotcha All right, so shit's going bad. You're on there two years, two and a half years, and you hit a tipping point. I'm assuming. So you kept doing narcotics that whole time which that side of the house. Was that what was keeping you afloat when you're like?
Speaker 2:I'm good at this and I get to do this, cause it's all the same people too. Oh, we had two.
Speaker 1:So you can get away from it. No, I couldn't, oh, no, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:I damn all our SWAT like one of our narcotics on our narcotics team was not on SWAT and we have been friends the whole time, um, and I never want to involve him in it, but I think towards the end I probably did say like I don't know what to do about this anymore. Um, and you know, I just didn't want to ever put him in a bad position, so I never really said like Dennis, please help me, or you know something like that.
Speaker 1:But two years is a long time to take it on by yourself.
Speaker 2:Two and a half.
Speaker 1:It's a long time to take on alone yeah, um, and obviously in law enforcement, even today, like you hear an officer kill themselves and you're like, did he reach out? Did anybody reach out to them? Like how long were they on their own and so that not saying you were going to go off yourself? But, that can be a thing like, especially if you think law enforcement you're calling it's being taken away from you.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah and it was being taken from me. Yeah, and it was. I would literally show up to work like please leave me alone today, please leave me alone today. And I remember like they'd come into our little tiny narcotics office and sergeant went barragona, come here. I mean, oh, literally, I'm just oh, what now? I mean just all the time and I mean it did get to the point where so here's another example I again my SWAT commander was also lieutenant narcotics I was I get really sick, like strep throat or something, and didn't take any time off, you know whatever. So one day, though, I was like sick. I told my lieutenant, I said I feel really. I said I'm gonna go to the doctor in the morning. I said I feel bad and he said okay, but get that car ready before you go home, because we had a bye scheduled for, had some snitch coming or something you want me to infect the whole team?
Speaker 1:I don't know what.
Speaker 2:I don't remember what happened, but I didn't get the car ready. Well, we had this guy on our team who what I think he was a deputy, I don't really remember, but he was always around. He was like our tech guy and I was like, okay, well, larry, the tech guy will get it right, but it's no big deal he can do. So I show up and it's super sick. I mean strep. And if you get strep in it, it's in these little white spots.
Speaker 2:Well they were black on me. I mean I was so sick and I think we had. Anyway, I show up. He's so mad at me. He writes I can't remember if I got a letter in my file for that, but but I know, at the end of the shift that day it was midnight he said take the RV and go wash it. Well, we had confiscated somebody's RV. I'd never driven an RV in my life and it was really long.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And okay. Well, two of the people on narcotics were like well, we'll go with you, because the only place to wash this giant RV was way out in the county, in the middle of the country, nowhere. Not that it's not dangerous, it's just well we'll go help you because I mean, I left at midnight. We didn't get back for a couple hours. It was big, and wash it all, I'll come to work the next day. And there was a crash report in my box.
Speaker 2:Well, when I pulled out of the sheriff's office compound, I'd nicked the taillight, so I broke the taillight. Well, they wrote me up for having a crash, like a wreck, a crash. So my captain pulls me in. He's like Bridget, what is this? And I literally like are you freaking, kidding me? And so he's like why were you washing an RV in the middle of the night? So I told him I got in trouble because I was when I was sick and blah, blah. Well, he I can't remember how I found out about that this part but he ended up going to my lieutenant saying you guys got to ease up, like this is enough, this is too much. Too much on Bridget, that you guys stop. And I do remember at one point. He called me.
Speaker 2:My captain called me in can't remember if it was that day or another day and said uh, bridget is there anything you need to tell me, and um me getting in trouble all the time I was like oh gosh what and I? Kind of realized what he was saying. Well, I realized what he was saying is do you want to report what's happening? And I, literally sitting there, I can vividly remember and I said, nope, I'm good, because I wanted to be respected as an operator, as an investigator, as a valuable team member.
Speaker 1:You didn't want to be the first female and then the female that cries wolf, right, you know and so I didn't say anything until, um, when that sergeant left the whole car open.
Speaker 2:I let that eat at me for two or three weeks and finally I went to the lieutenant SWAT commander and I said I kind of generically described, like I didn't want him to know who it was, but I wanted to say, like this is what happened. And I said I'm not asking for better treatment, I'm just asking for equal treatment. And he said I don't know what you mean. And I said, well, if that would have been me, I would have gotten in so much trouble. And he said, and I quote don't make trouble for yourself where there's not any. And I said, well, pretty sure, that's not a thing and don't really know if you understand what you're saying. I didn't say that part out loud and okay. And I said again.
Speaker 2:I said, lieutenant, I don't really understand what you're saying because I'm not trying to make trouble for anybody. I knew what he was saying. But, lieutenant, I don't really understand what you're saying because I'm not trying to make trouble for anybody. I knew what he was saying. But again, just equal treatment. I'm not asking you to ignore things, but if I get it again, I'm not trying to get somebody in trouble. You get what I'm saying. And he said again don't make trouble for yourself where there's not any. Okay, so this just plays out. So during this time I'm buying drugs from somebody's house way out in the country, like when I'm buying it Not for yourself.
Speaker 1:Right, right, let's be clear, let's clear up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I must have been buying crack, because we didn't buy powder that often and I was buying it in somebody's house way out in the country. My backup wasn't close. We always had like a bug on where people could hear what was happening in case things went south. But my backup couldn't be that close because it was you couldn't have headlights roaming around. And so I did these buys, buying from this big, huge black dude with a rifle leaning up in the corner right next to him. So I mean, at any point he could have offed me and nobody could have saved me. So I did the buys. I get the search warrant. I briefed the team. We go execute that search warrant. Again, I'm driving the equipment van, not actually going to do any entry, you know, catalog all the evidence and as soon as they secure it, I put change hats and I'm the narcotics investigator and I do all this stuff and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:Well then a couple of weeks later whatever, we were at, the ADA had a party and some of the narcotics people got invited because we worked with them all the time on the warrants. While we were at the party, my former Marine SWAT guy was there and he's like oh hey, you're not going to like this, but let me tell you what happened when we were on the way to that search warrant. Everybody in the attack vehicle was calling you a snitch. So my commander went and told the whole team that I was trying to rat out one of my own teammates. When I went to him that time to say can I just get equal treatment? And I had to leave that party because I was so crushed, literally got in my car driving home, had to pull over, I was crying so hard I couldn't see straight, because that's when it finally hit me like nothing I am ever going to do is going to matter. Yeah.
Speaker 2:When you say, like the mental health aspect, no, I never got to the point where I thought, well, I'm the problem, so I'll eliminate. I limited myself from the problem in the sense that I was like middle fingers to you, I'll go do something else. But yeah, yes, it happens and that's why I do what I do. I don't want everybody, I don't want anybody to ever think they don't matter, because I certainly went through that very depressive state of nothing I've done in the last four years has mattered. Nobody gives a shit and that's a bad place to be in. And also, I'm glad I'm 49, not now, not 20 something, because now I know it's just a job I got. My kids are what's important. There's so much, so many things more important than just what you do at work. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But in your 20 something when you're 29,.
Speaker 2:You think I've just given every single speck of my being to this for four years and nobody gives a shit. And that was really hard. And I went to the captain that next week and I think it was like Monday, that was a Saturday night. I walked into the captain's office on Monday and I think it was like Monday, that was a Saturday night. I walked in the captain's office on Monday and I said I want off SWAT and I want off narcotics right now and I want day shift. And he said you got it, you start tomorrow, like he knew. And so that's how it all came to a screeching halt dang yeah, so you jump off the teams.
Speaker 1:Then what happens?
Speaker 2:I went back to patrol and at that time I knew I was going to. I had decided I would go to law school and I was in the process of taking the LSAT to prep for it or whatever. Okay, so if you back up a little bit more, I got involved in two internal affairs investigations during all this. Never one of them was like an evidence issue which was sustained. I forgot to lock the, the.
Speaker 2:So we had these evidence lockers that were like school lockers yeah that the evidence scheme could get to on the back side and to keep them open, we had an eraser on the little lock side, like nothing fancy. Hopefully they have a better system now. Yeah, so when you're done, you have to take that eraser off and close the locker. Well, if you mess up and you're supposed to put as much as you can like the one locker and so they're not messing up, whatever Well, this was like I think we had. We had done an investigation that was like 24 hours long and so it was the end of it and we were cataloging it.
Speaker 2:Well, I forgot to lock that little door. Whole internal affairs. They dinged me for it. I got a day off without pay and I was like, yeah, I probably did. I don't remember. I was so tired, like, yeah, I'll just take it. Yes, it was me. Another one. I got investigated for releasing confidential information because I told one of the other investigators something that was happening and happened in the investigation that he was privy to anyway, and so it was just you know.
Speaker 1:So you got in trouble for answering a question that they asked you about. Another investigation, no, he didn't answer.
Speaker 2:He didn't ask me. I shared something about the investigation, but he's on SWAT. He was on the uniform side of our narcotics team. He knew everything about the investigation. Afterwards. How did so-and-so go? So I told him. And then turns out that this guy's brother was potentially involved with the guy who was selling the drugs. Well, that wasn't part of it at the time and it never occurred to me. Wait, that's his brother and if he's asking this question he might go try and help his brother, because the guy was a good cop. But maybe he would have told his brother, I don't know. Well, I got investigated for releasing confidential information to another cop who knew all the circumstances about the entire investigation.
Speaker 2:Anyway, they cleared me of that, but still yeah, just going through in that process, though, when I'm trying to go to the feds like I said I was going to, it was in the process for the dea when I, when they got to that part and looking at the file and say, oh, you were investigated for releasing confidential information as a narcotics investigator and even though you were cleared, we can't take you, sorry. So you see how this is like crashing down yeah, and so I was like okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go do something else.
Speaker 1:Holy shit, man Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It crashed hard. After doing it sounds like the captain was legit.
Speaker 2:He was and still is he's yeah.
Speaker 1:He was.
Speaker 2:My mistake was I should have said Captain, here's what's happening and I don't know what to do about it. But I didn't know how that would go. I didn't know if I could. In hindsight, yes, I could trust him, but I didn't know if I could trust him Because you know, ia after IA, I was in a union. You can have your union rep in your interviews. I wouldn't have had him in the room because he was one of the boys that was not a fan of mine.
Speaker 1:Oh man you had it stacked against you?
Speaker 2:I didn't know what to do and nobody was standing up. And this is what I tell people all the time Nobody's going to. That's why you always should stand up for yourself. And I tell myself back then. I would be telling myself back then write this down and go give it to your captain, write this down and go give it to HR.
Speaker 2:Really you should do both and I'll tell people that all the time is. You should tell your chain of command and you should tell HR, just because one side might be stupid and I didn't. So life was going at 100 miles an hour until it wasn't and I quit and reeled from that for quite some time.
Speaker 1:Dang. I've never me personally in my career I've never experienced anything like that and I would hope that if I see it, that I would say something. But I could see, especially as a young officer, like young in the career, if you're getting put on a specialized unit like SWAT and we just had a whole discussion how it's the team and that's the whole thing is like I could even see myself trying to convince myself, like maybe this is part of the test, Maybe they're treating this person this way to see if.
Speaker 2:I say something yeah and be like a snitch on the team, like for the longest time I was like I'll be damned. They're not pushing me out of this yeah, no, like they are not, I'm not gonna let them win yeah until I got to the point when I realized at that party, like they just don't care, yeah, um, yeah, it was, it was hard were you single at the time?
Speaker 2:yes, so yeah, yeah, let's go back to the whole dating said the whole dating scene I definitely did not tell people that I was on swat. It always changed things, I mean sometimes like the second. I remember one guy we dated for a little bit and I don't know what that means maybe it was two weeks, I don't remember and then finally got around to like, okay, I'm not just at the sheriff's office, or they think I'm working in like reception or something right I'm kind of sort of on the narcotics unit and SWAT team. I remember this one guy like visibly like a ghost.
Speaker 2:Everything about him changed and he didn't necessarily ghost me like after that, but it didn't, it didn't work out.
Speaker 1:What's the deal?
Speaker 2:I mean, I even thought well, let me date somebody that's in the military because they're used to the environment. That didn't work. Um men, just and no offense. But they didn't know how to handle somebody who was mentally my take, didn't know what to think, and so therefore didn't know how to handle somebody who was mentally my take, didn't know what to think, and so therefore didn't. Yeah. About somebody who is mentally and physically capable to do both of those things Narcotics unit and SWAT team while also yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, take the traditional role of a guy it's to protect. Yeah, I don't think they're going to be, protecting you. No, you're taking that role away, so I I kind of see it then again, I'm a unicorn myself. My wife and I've been together since seventh grade wow, yeah, so yeah in this career field and in the military.
Speaker 2:Like that's rare, doesn't happen, I met my husband six months after I left the sheriff's office and I can say that had I met him at the time, he wouldn't have I mean, he didn't give a shit. Yeah, um, he cares, in the sense that, like, he doesn't ever like, like he doesn't brag about it in front of me, but every time I ever meet anybody, they always say, oh, your husband brags about you all the time, like if we, if we introduce somebody, oh, what'd you do? If they say, what kind of lawyer are you? And I say, well, I specialize in helping cops. And my husband will say, that's because she was a cop. And yeah, I was. Oh, you were in law enforcement. And my husband will say, oh, she wasn't just in law enforcement, she's like. And he says that, um, I mean.
Speaker 2:But the side effects of what, of my experience in law enforcement is that for years I didn't even want to tell people that's what I did. I didn't want to talk about it. Um, it became a very distinct and separate part of my life. Um, I mean, I went to law school. I took a bar exam so I could practice law. I've now taken four bar exams for four states. I passed all of them. The first time.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, I was like I thought you only had to take it one time.
Speaker 2:No, but some states let you wave in or if you have to be a cop, an attorney, for a certain amount of time. But long story about, I took four bar exams. Some don't ever let you wave in, like Florida, louisiana. I've taken those two um, texas, florida, new York and Louisiana and it went through this phase of where I would say like, yeah, but oh, that's so cool, you did that. But in my mind I'm thinking it doesn't matter, like it means nothing and that is sad for anybody. But because of course it matters, yeah, of course it means something. I remember, like one of the paralegals at one of the law firms I worked at and I remember I think I'd taken the florida and new york bar at the time and she said, bridget, that's so amazing. I said, but it's not. She said, what are you talking about? I said, but it doesn't mean anything. And she said, bridget, she's like girl, you got some problems yeah, I was like maybe I do and it was all from that.
Speaker 2:I mean, like it doesn't matter, like it didn't matter, I didn't want anybody to know about it, I didn't want anybody to talk about it, and like I was sick of the looking me up and down, like you were on swat, like motherfucker, like yeah I might not win, beat you in a fight, but I could shoot you 50 yards running I mean I'm gonna win somehow yeah and it was hard, like you know, but I also am a firm believer.
Speaker 1:The hard things you know make you who you are yeah and I don't regret any of it because of what I how I can help now yeah, I was gonna say maybe I'm not to be a religious guy, I'm not and I'm not a religious guy, but if you are a believer, that there's something out there, kind of is one of those things you're like okay, I see what you did to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it sucks at the time, yeah, but absolutely like I need you to do this and I'm not super religious, but to compare it is, I had my daughters two years and it's a very similar feeling, but this is why I like to tell you this my daughter's one year apart, 16 months. So, bam bam, I had two kids. And I'm like okay, great, well, I wanted another one and I was 39 and I, and then I turned 40 and like well, crap, I guess my child days are over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm 40 and my doctor was like no, you're healthy, you could have another one, wanted another one. Didn't happen, didn't happen, didn't happen. And I remember when I had my son and we never found out what we were having with our kids. So he was born and they given to me and this is a boy. And I said to the doctor are you sure? The doctor went pretty sure, anyway, and I just remember this feeling just overwhelmed me at the time and it was like no, not this most religious person, but just in this moment it was God, or that person saying whatever you believe in, saying to me like I know you really wanted this and I know it was really hard, but I needed to, I needed you to wait for this one.
Speaker 2:And so I feel like it's that kind of thing where God, you know whatever reason it is, saying like I know that really sucked, but this is your purpose yeah and you know, for, as a profession, what I love about being 49 is I know that I'm more than just what I do for, you know, for a living, um, but I know that what I'm doing now matters, yeah, and and I think what cops do every day matters, versus, like what I did when I was attorney the first 13 years. I don't give a shit about this. I'm not like I can't stand just stroking a trial lawyer's ego, um, making him brag about himself more, so I can't stand all that. But like this is what matters is helping people.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's transition into that. So you, you turn the page. New chapter go through law school and you see a need.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but not right away. Not right away, no, okay, I was pissed. I knew I wanted to help law enforcement someday. I didn't know what that would look like for a long time. And also, I met my husband in Texas because my mom was still in Texas when I finished high school. Right after that my mom moved to Texas and so I had to go visit my mom in Texas, never had any intention of ever living in Texas, came to visit my sister who was here, and I met this guy, dave, and my brother-in-law was like oh, you got to meet this guy, dave, and I was like you will not set me up. And I had another bad breakup and he's like no, no, no, he just moved here from New Orleans and he just doesn't know anybody.
Speaker 1:So we met at Chewy's in Houston so you had the New Orleans, yeah, so I met the.
Speaker 2:I met Dave and then I thought, well, he's a little easy on the eyes. And so I said to my brother-in-law well, maybe you can set us up. But I started law school in Miami two months later and had no intention of ever living in Texas. But fast forward two and a half years. I also did law school in two and a half years instead of three.
Speaker 2:I wanted to get the heck out cause it's expensive and by the time I finished law school, dave and I ended up dating the whole time I was in law school decided that I might as well start a career in Texas, if I'm going to start a career anywhere, cause I didn't have I'm not from Florida, so I didn't have like a hometown, you know anything like that so moved to Texas for Dave, um, and, but in the meantime, like no, I was still really mad.
Speaker 1:Um.
Speaker 2:I knew I never wanted to be a cop again. But I knew I wanted to help cops because in the midst of all that crap with how my experience was, I also was recognizing that the job starts to wear on you in many other ways, that all the things, the dead people you see, the evil that you're around, people hate you like every traffic stop you do you have to be prepared for that guy wanting to kill you I mean domestic violence like you, just never it's never a positive interaction typically right, and that really starts to weigh on you.
Speaker 2:I mean, I remember one of the times I got in trouble and, talking with my captain, I had made a mistake in something. And I said to my captain he's like, well, bridget, you gotta, you gotta be careful because you want to be able to go home at the end of the day. And I said I remember saying, captain, I know you're right and I appreciate this. I said, and I want to say like I have a hard time balancing needing to expect the worst out of anybody you encounter on the job with refusing to believe that everybody's evil. And so that's a how do you know, it's a difficult balance yeah, the us versus them mentality that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that's a saying for a reason yeah, and so you know that happens, that definitely happens, and I always said it's not a matter of if it's going to happen, it's a matter of when it happens to you in terms of where you recognize it, and so because of that, I knew I wanted to help somehow.
Speaker 2:I just didn't know what that would look like. And then fast forward 13 years. I hated law firm life and it was the summer of 2020 when the George Floyd thing happened. And obviously there's a lot of bad things that happened out of that, one of them being that the world started thinking all cops were murderers, and it made me really mad. And after getting spending two weeks of being mad with like people I know posting things about cops on social media, my husband would say stop looking. I'm like I can't. It makes me so mad. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But again, positive Polly versus Debbie Downer. I thought, okay, not all cops are killers, obviously, but in of all, everything bad can you look at it and find. But is there a way that we could be better? And my role in that. How can I help? And, from a mental health standpoint, how can I help cops improve their mental health so that they can make better decisions? And that evolved into okay, well, I know I'm an attorney. I remember how I felt and how overwhelming that was. I was definitely distracted on the job while that was happening and I can help give you answers and solve that. So, as a long way of saying coming back, I went to law school, having not really choosing it, Like I chose being a cop and that was my plan as a profession.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I went to law school cause I didn't know what else to do and I knew it just wouldn't be a bad thing. I knew that having a laundry was never going to be bad. Mm hmm, um so, and then I just, and then I moved to Texas and I just got a job, and then, well then, my husband's job moved us to New York city. It was back to Houston, and so that was just. It was a means to an end, but not a choice necessarily.
Speaker 1:Was New York harder the bar. They all suck really bad. Seems like there's a lot more laws up there.
Speaker 2:No, it was less days, it was a two-day bar. Texas is two and a half. Florida's, well, can be three, but I'd already done a portion of it, so it was two. New York was two and a half, I don't remember. Louisiana's, the worst, it's three days, but spread out over a week. Eight to five Monday, wednesday, friday, so it's a whole week of hell. They all suck, all of them. The amount of studying, but I mean, I did it like a job for two months, yeah, so, and am I the world's leading legal scholar? No, do I study my ass off to try and be prepared for whatever question they could ask me and be able to regurgitate just enough. Yes, that's what I did, um, but so, yeah, I didn't. I was mad at first, um, and then came around to summer 2000. Then, at that time, I started stepping back from the law firm I was working for because I hated it, and I also got really tired of working for stupid people, and so I ended up working for myself and developing what I do now.
Speaker 1:Okay, so what is it that you do now?
Speaker 2:That's a very good question.
Speaker 2:Thank you, you like how I led that in um, lady law shield, it's my law firm, and I specialize in helping cops fight back against the stuff that I just described in so many details. Um, and I do consider what I do to be a wellness tool because, um, and I say all the time, this is, it's not about the lawsuit you'll file, it's about everything that's happening to you, leading up to the point of where you feel like you're about to break. You don't know who to talk to, you don't know who you can trust, you don't know what to say, even if you were to start reporting it, and I help you know what to say, how to do it. I mean, sometimes I can do that for you and you'll pay a little bit more for that, but I have flat based fee pricing where the first step is let me review it for you. Give me all the things, I'll review it, I'll tell you what, I'll give you a plan of action, I give you answers, I give you a plan, and I think that I was so hungry for that when I was at the sheriff's office. Then the next step is sometimes I do that for people, so if it's filing an EEOC claim or something like that, I can do it, but the first step is I know, because I was in it, that sometimes you just need to know like I'm losing my mind.
Speaker 2:I had a call with a guy the other day. He actually heard me speak at a conference two years ago and he then didn't need me two years ago. And then he called me and he's facing some harassment stuff, and he jumped in real quick. He's getting interviewed me and he's facing some harassment stuff, and he jumped in real quick. He's getting interviewed and he needed me to look at some questions I gave him and I was able to respond pretty quick and say like okay, this is what you say. Don't do this, do this. Don't say no, here's these questions. Your answer to all of them is no, don't say anything else to that. Here's why. And he was in tears at the end of the conversation saying oh my gosh, thank you so much. He said I hadn't. For months I've been in this, I didn't know what to do and I feel so much better and that's that's it. That's what I do it for.
Speaker 1:And the, the ability to see it from law enforcement's perspective you probably destroy them. I had the. I don't know if you want to call it fortunate or unfortunate. Unfortunate, we had an officer where I'm at that was getting in legal trouble and it was big.
Speaker 1:It was like a big thing and I'm sitting back and I just happened to be asked to come in for the defense to ask some. They wanted to just ask some basic questions and stuff. And I'm sitting here and I'm listening to the questions they're asking and in my brain I'm like why aren't you asking me this? Why are?
Speaker 1:you not asking me this? Why are? You not asking me this and I just started going down this thing and finally I sat back and goes you guys really need a law enforcement liaison, Because you are missing an enormous part of this. I don't understand how in the world you're going to give a proper defense when you don't know. It ain't your fault, but you don't have this perspective.
Speaker 2:So, for you coming, let me give you a ridiculous example of that.
Speaker 2:Okay, so one of my clients had made some mistakes, and again, everybody makes mistakes. And are you allowed to write somebody up or give them a pip over performance improvement, plan over for miss? Yes, you are, but make sure you're doing that evenly or like the frequency that you might be targeting this person. Somebody needs to be able to say, hey, that, why are we doing? Why are we coming after this person so much? Or why are we demoting this person and taking pay away and moving them from days to nights? When we did, you know, this person did the same thing and we didn't do that to them. Somebody. That's not easy to do, especially when it's the chief dictating who gets that. So this just happens. A female she again made a mistake, handled a gun without gloves.
Speaker 2:Um, oh so potentially tainting evidence turns out it was lost property, not evidence of anything, but that's not how the chief took it, and so this was a culminated and like made the mistake.
Speaker 2:It was not the only thing he kind of was targeting for. So she went like Chief, can we have a meeting? I want to be able to. And she's like I want to meet with you. And the intent being, she said to him I want you to know like, I won't do that again. This job is important to me. I want you to know I'm committed to doing better. You know what is it. Is there anything specific that you would like to see from me? She wanted to have like I'm doing it. I accept it, I made a mistake, I'll do better.
Speaker 2:And he said well, you know, we saw you in the hallway the other day and you didn't say hi. And she said what he says we know it's important to me. I've told everybody that. You know, I do expect everybody to be nice.
Speaker 2:And she said, well, there's just a lot going on in my mind. And he said, oh, is everything okay? And she said, yeah, I just kind of have some things going on at home. And she said, and he's like are you okay? Are you safe? Is it with your husband? She said, yeah, yeah, I've just been distracted. Things aren't as good as blah, blah, blah. She's like. But it's actually I like being at work, because when department and I was thinking about that and I was distracted so you're safe though she said yeah, and he said, well, are you still intimate with your husband? And she's like, oh, and she changed the subject. And then he comes back and says well, but are you still intimate with your husband? She said, well, no, you know, at my son's wedding next weekend. And then divert the conversation Well, she's freaking out.
Speaker 2:After that Goes to her sergeant and says look, all this other stuff is happening where I feel like he's targeting me. And then he asked me about if I'm having sex with my husband. Sergeant's like do you want me to report it? She said, well, I feel like I should, but I'm afraid I'll get fired. So two weeks later, finally, he's like look, I'm supposed to report this, I'm gonna report it. He goes to hr. He's coming out of hr. Chief sees him. Hey, sarge, what are you doing here? He tells the chief what he reported that day. The chief instructed the ia department to investigate her for gossiping and something else conduct unbecoming.
Speaker 2:One week later she's fired for gossiping and conduct unbecoming his excuse was his excuse was that's a standard question to ask in a domestic violence investigation, and to which I said said no cop ever right show me in a book where it tells you that you should ask the victim of domestic violence if she's still having sex with her husband. Yeah. Does it also say ask the rape victim if her skirt was too short?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Like are they right next to each other in the manual on that stupid shit? Yeah Gets better. He did the exact same thing to somebody else in the department a year earlier. This person did explicitly write it down and report it right away, and they did nothing about it dang yeah, so that's the insider so the insider view is, that is not how domestic violence investigations go yeah, typically for those wondering, like what kind of questions you ask?
Speaker 1:what? We want to find out who the primary aggressor is?
Speaker 2:that's really yeah, who started yeah?
Speaker 1:do I need to arrest somebody tonight or not? Was it just verbal Okay, if it was just verbal, okay, Guys stop Separate. Yeah, go, but if anybody got physical or anybody smashed a phone, sometimes just smashing a phone is enough. Prevention of calling 911. And that's all we're looking for. I just I'm ready for the next call, like that's the business of policing, um, and so it sounds callous, but that is how cops don't get themselves in trouble.
Speaker 1:It's not a bias that we shouldn't be biased, yeah so by us, like we're just looking for elements yeah, in sexual intercourse is it robbery?
Speaker 2:is it, is it battery? Is it whatever? Is it trespassing? Can I yeah?
Speaker 1:Yeah, now, if it's an investigation by a sexual assault detective, that may be a question that comes up, but not in that environment. And two, where's the case number?
Speaker 2:I mean that would be very fact specific about why that would be part of an investigation, Right?
Speaker 1:But as your chief like you're investigating in domestic violence? Okay, well, if you were so concerned that domestic violence was happening.
Speaker 2:Where's the report?
Speaker 1:yeah, where's the paperwork to back up what you were investigating? So again the inside stuff that us as cops would look at. Yeah, I'm like you're full of shit. You didn't write nothing down.
Speaker 2:There's not even an email on this no so, and let it to be better. So he records the whole conversation and puts it in her file with the whole conversation, so he's got himself on. Yeah. And when she walks out of the room you can hear him say she's full of shit. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, how'd you find out about the recording?
Speaker 2:Because they put a placeholder in her file, that there's a recording of the conversation, that they didn't at first give her and I said oh no, no, no. I said I typed it up and said copy it and paste this into an email and send it to them. She got the recording that day no shit, yeah, holy shit, yeah.
Speaker 1:What island does she own now? Well, unfortunately, lawsuits take time yeah, I get it and they're not entertaining negotiating at this point I had kyle rittenhouse on the podcast yeah, and I think I knew that and he's gone through, yeah, several, but he's got nothing. Yeah, like people think that he is just loaded beyond, but it just gets tied up yeah, yeah. So even if he wins, he doesn't ever really win. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And on top of that I don't think he got the best attorneys either.
Speaker 1:I think they were kind of taking advantage of him.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think they got the bulk of whatever he could have got.
Speaker 2:Yeah, people always say, well, I want a contingency fee lawyer. Like, well, then you should know that in Texas those contingency fee lawyers get 40% before expenses, so they're going to take 40% of what they get from you and then they're going to take all the expenses out of what's left, and then you get what's left over. Damn, yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 1:Hold on one second.
Speaker 2:I'm, that's crazy. Hold on one second, I'm freezing. Are you cold?
Speaker 1:I mean, I am freezing this thing's working way too good. There's a reason why I know I can't feel it.
Speaker 2:It's right on me it's right on you, you're gonna turn that. Yeah, that's so funny, it's working.
Speaker 1:It is working. Let's just go standard 72. Yeah, we've uh, we got this mini split in guys and I've been complaining for three years now doing this podcast. It gets so sweaty hot and I was like I'm not going to be sweaty this time. I told you we have some kinks to work out. I got to figure out what temperature I had on 69, which was obviously not a good temperature to have, because I'm like shivering and I always run hot, so it works guys.
Speaker 2:As I age, I'm trying to run hot.
Speaker 1:I know what caden k-a-d-e-n. If you guys need a good mini split caden and it's very quiet I know you can't ever hear it. I know it's perfect. Yeah, it doesn't even register on my mics. Wow, so yeah, which is great for me. Anyway, let's get back into lady law firm, okay, so how long have you been up in? I'm sorry, did I say that wrong?
Speaker 2:Lady Law Shield, whatever it's a law firm. I'm sorry, lady Law Shield.
Speaker 1:Well, make sure I get my notes right, girl.
Speaker 2:Lady Law Shield.
Speaker 1:And obviously you don't just represent ladies. Nope, it's just ran by a lady. Is that where you came up with the name?
Speaker 2:So the name, I don't care for. I I mean, if you technically, if you look up the corporate registry, it's the lady uh, truckzilla law firm, plc, dba. Lady law shield, because who cares what my last name is. I mean, right, I I wanted it to reflect who I am and what I do.
Speaker 2:And lady law because I'm a lady lawyer but I was also a lady cop and Shield because, it represents defending and what you do and who I was, and I also had to run that by the state bar At first. I can't remember Lady Cop, I said some word where I'm not allowed to use anything that directly could be tied to law enforcement because it could suggest undue influence over a case or a judge, and so I was not. I had to. I can't remember what the other lady cop law or something like that Seems subjective.
Speaker 1:I couldn't put the word cop in there.
Speaker 2:Weird, I can't remember what it was, but they approved and they gave me the stamp of approval for lady law shield. Okay.
Speaker 2:So I just liked that it kind of encapsulated everything. And women only, uh, on a nationwide average, represent somewhere between 13 and 16 percent, depending on where you're getting your stat from, of law enforcement. So obviously the vast majority are still men and so the majority of my clients are men and sadly it's still there's too many issues that you that you face in your department. Uh, one of my clients is was retaliated against after going and taking some FMLA FMLA leave for addiction. Um, one of them was retaliated against after taking workers comp for an on the job injury, for a work mandated training and then some later harassment type stuff. And so it's not always like gender discrimination, sometimes it's race discrimination. Very few calls do I get are, um, like age or religion. Um, it could be like I talked to a guy. And also it's all based on federal law, even though every state has, like their state equivalent. But it's basically federal law so I can advise and consult on, even file eeoc claims nationwide. Like I've had a client out of alaska, I have several out of the same department in illinois right now I have multiple in minnesota I mean north to south, east to west, except the northeast in general, because their unions are so.
Speaker 2:Two reasons because of the unions. One is their unions are much more powerful. Second, because they're not a right-to-work state. Their jobs are protected more by statute in terms of what your rights are and how you can or cannot be fired. We live in an at-will state, so you can be fired for any reason or no reason. They could hate donuts and they could fire you because you like donuts, and that is arbitrary and stupid. They can't do that because you're a guy that likes donuts, or you're a woman that wears pink, or you can't do that, and so it depends on why.
Speaker 2:But then also, there was really a $22 million verdict that came out last week, a couple weeks ago, for a guy that was fired from his department in retaliation for speaking up for another cop who was being indicted. It, sadly, is an interesting case. It's highly unlikely that verdict will hold In Texas. That will get reduced down like crazy. But the DA, the chief and the mayor all colluded to retaliate against this guy because all he did was help. He was supporting a cop that had been indicted.
Speaker 2:On a change of venue. He wanted to just do the trial in a different place. Well, the DA and the judge where it had been filed, were pissed about that and colluded with the mayor, even the the so the sheriff there was a city inside he worked. This guy worked for pd inside that county. The sheriff went to the city mayor and police chief and said we will withhold services from you if you don't fire this guy. What? Yeah, so that is another level of a different. That's not eeoc, that's like 1983 violation. Um, I mean then the proofs and in the pudding, like there's proof of it, like they literally went to the police department and the mayor and said fire this guy or we will withhold services from you. Like state constitutionally provided, taxpayer funded services that you are not allowed to withhold.
Speaker 1:Holy cow.
Speaker 2:And the DA and the mayor and the sheriff all were found while civilly liable. I mean that is impossible to do. That DA also was indicted for other stuff. Also very hard to get a DA indicted on anything because they have prosecutorial immunity which is even more broad than qualified immunity that cops have.
Speaker 1:So I'm glad you kind of opened this rabbit hole, because this has been kind of a thing lately with the podcast in itself. I'm not trying to make this about me, I promise.
Speaker 2:What's your podcast?
Speaker 1:What.
Speaker 2:It is your podcast it is my podcast.
Speaker 1:Yes, part of the thing that I get attacked because I'm a fence sitter, in general terms, because I call out bad cops, you're a what. Fence sitter, I sit on the fence. I'm not pro-cop.
Speaker 2:I thought you meant fence sitter. No, no, no, no, that's interesting, it's my northern northern yankee accent um, so I call it.
Speaker 1:When I see bad police work, I call it out. Yeah, from an educational standpoint, never like monday morning quarterback or anything like that. But um, and then when I see good cop work, I call that well in our field. And when you talk, when people get online because mine is basically a social media platform you get destroyed from both sides like constantly. Yeah, it is what it is, it's not good obviously you have thick skin yeah, I'm going on four years.
Speaker 1:They're not stopping me right um, but I love to have the conversations about. People say, well, police don't hold their own accountable, they just thin blue line. And then we hear stories like this. I'm trying to tell people. I'm like listen, prosecutors and judges are not our friends, they go after us. Cops go after each other, they hold each other accountable or, in your case, good old boy system where they're not. So it's across the spectrum and it's that way in every career field. Yeah, but more to your point, where you're talking about that is nuts. I mean, that is such a different level.
Speaker 2:So now I kind of understand where the $22 million comes in because you got oh, and then they I mean it gets worse that they it gets worse when you get fired you're supposed to.
Speaker 2:You can have, you know, cobra coverage for health insurance for three months, unless unless the entity has less than 10 employees. But I mean, that's almost, or maybe it's 20 anyway, one of those. Uh, if I'm an old lady moment, let's say it's 20. Um, if you have less than 20 employees, you do not have to provide co-recoverage. Also, the caveat well, okay, I won't complicate it, but but I won't go down the legal route.
Speaker 1:It's the nerd side of you, right, I'm like well but this.
Speaker 2:So they said, no, you're going to have insurance coverage for three months. Well, they canceled it without notifying him. He didn't get the coverage. His wife was on his plan. His wife was really, really ill and needed medical care. He couldn't get a job because he was, so it gets worse job because he was um, so it makes it worse. He got fired from a job for um something that, along the lines of untruthfulness, they indicted him for it.
Speaker 2:They indicted him for, like felonious something holy cow regarding the affidavit that he signed to help get this guy get this new venue change of venue. All that was later dropped as soon as the da was either indicted or removed or whatever. Then they put a new day at da in and they called in the grand jury to like are they going to indict this guy that all charges were dropped about?
Speaker 1:you still have to go through an expungement of that stuff, don't you?
Speaker 2:um, I mean, there's so much of a record of it now. I mean it could be expunged from his record, but you can google this guy.
Speaker 1:It's going to show up for yeah that's part, so people listening, if you're wondering. What we're talking about is like I've heard of this a lot, where somebody goes to put in for a police job and they're like. You know, I mooned somebody when I was 18 and got a sex crime.
Speaker 1:I'm being, you know, over emphasizing, but they said I didn't get in, I didn't get prosecuted for it, it got dropped. However, it's still showing in their record. And then they couldn't get the cop job because they have to go through some. I'm not a legal expert, but I think that's where you expunge it from their record, but that is a process.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1:And it's not easy, and it's going to cost you and it takes time.
Speaker 2:So let's say you get expunged or let's say whatever, and that part of the record is sealed or something. And I have clients who will say to me well, how do I answer that question going forward? Have you ever been charged?
Speaker 1:Like well.
Speaker 2:I'm going to tell you about this thing called the internet and that if you Google your name, search your name, whatever engine you use, if DuckDuckGo your name, I use DuckDuck duck go your name, I use duck duck go. Now, um is your name. What's going to happen if they pull your name up? And if that's there, like, are you going to risk not being truthful? I mean, it's a fine line. Like you know, I, I, I would always err on the hey. I want to tell you what you'll find if you, if you look me up. But I can also say I was dropped, I was able to get it expunged and you can even sometimes you need to, even when you're talking to legal, somehow involved in the legal world, people would think, oh, you're a cop, you know the law, you know some of the law, you know how you can arrest people you don't know all that much about. You know you don't know what I know about. Civil law drives me crazy.
Speaker 2:Cops so like they just think they know all the law and no, you don't you know elements, that's it you also don't know what you need to know about what like employment law, how to protect yourself and what you should say and, like what you know, what is the difference between harassment and discrimination or hostile right. You need and you need to make sure you put all that in there anyway. So, um, what was the question?
Speaker 1:22 million.
Speaker 2:Oh well, just talking about cops, I mean one of the bad things is oh yeah, holding each other accountable.
Speaker 2:I mean it. It's. It's so disappointing to me when I hear of bad chiefs and sergeants and lieutenants who are going so far beyond what they think they know or what is accurate. For example, brady Giglio. If you're not familiar with what that is, brady and Giglio are two US Supreme Court cases that in part define a criminal defendant's rights in trial, and what I mean is if, for example, the prosecution finds evidence that could help a criminal defendant defend themselves or potentially clear their name also known as exculpatory evidence they're required to turn that over. Or the cop lied somehow, like we're going through this trial in Houston right now. Jail Goines lied in an affidavit for a search warrant, but they we know this now they executed the search warrant. During the process, the two homeowners were killed. Well, come to find out he lied in the affidavit, so they never should have been there in the first place. And then, sadly, I maybe allegedly HPD covered up some of that because they knew really quick that things had gone bad.
Speaker 2:Oh shit, that's Brady Giglio type stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Gerald Goines. He is the reason why somebody should be. He is a perfect example of somebody that should be on a Brady Giglio list. You get put on this list, you let all defense attorneys know that this cop's a liar and so then basically you get fired because you can never be used, you can't do your job anymore. Well, here's an example of how that goes wrong A client of mine I'm trying to help.
Speaker 2:He, for the last six years, has been working nights, six days a week, for either voluntary or mandatory overtime, midnights, if he testifies in anything. You know you work midnights. You don't sleep Because you have life you want to lead during the day. Hopefully you get some sleep, but you don't. And so he's been six years not sleeping. He had worked at night. He lived in a town where jurisdictions back up like just real close city line and somebody across his jurisdiction needed some help. He called like hey, sarge, can I go? Well, he headed that way anyway, crossed over jurisdiction, jurisdictional lines before he got the technical permission. It turned out to be nothing, they didn't need any help. But then his sergeant, you know, kind of dinged him. He's like hey, you shouldn't have done that. And he's like you're right, I'm sorry, you know like I won't cross the line.
Speaker 1:were you gonna say no, that's what i's what I would have asked. No, he would have said yes, he was like just don't do it, you know because this could go bad.
Speaker 2:He's like you're right. Well, his sergeant had called him and he didn't answer. But he totally like he's like you're right, I did it.
Speaker 2:Oh okay, I shouldn't have crossed the lines without before getting your explicit permission. You know he goes, works the shift, doesn't get to sleep because he goes to court. They make him sit around and wait all day to testify about something. While he's at court there's a fight in one of the courtrooms so he helps clear the no fights. He has this adrenaline dump, goes to the station, sleeps on the floor maybe for an hour, goes back to work that night out on the patrol and the lieutenant calls him in. He's like hey, we looked at your body camera like we asked you why you didn't answer your sergeant's call and the guy was like yeah, I think the call my phone was in the car or something. And they said well, according to your body cam, you had your phone. Like they could see on the body cam, they had his phone in his hand and it even showed that his sergeant was calling oh he's like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:He's like I literally just I don't remember. Well, he hasn't slept yeah, yeah. And I could show you research, scientific research, that would prove that sleep deprivation that caused that, not intentional or untruthfulness. He's on a Brady list now and cannot get a job in law enforcement. Oh no.
Speaker 2:That's not Brady list. I have another client out of North Carolina. She's a dispatcher. Shouldn't even be part of this whole Brady thing but their laws make it seem like maybe dispatchers are involved. She was in a traumatic car accident a couple years ago, has PTSD, severe anxiety. When her, when she starts to get freaked out about something, her anxiety really kicks in and she'll start to you know, fidget and and like, look away, and you know, like maybe you would think she's not telling the truth if you don't know this about her. And so she's at work one night, her sergeant she has to do some certification thing on a computer sergeant comes up to her sergeant. Her supervisor comes up to her and says I hate you so much I wish I could punch you in the face or something along those lines yeah so she's kind of freaked out about that and it's a supervisor, not her supervisor, didn't want to tell her direct supervisor because they're best friends.
Speaker 2:So she goes out into the parking lot, sees a detective and says, hey, this just happened. What do I do? Detective says you need to report that to HR. So she does. They investigate it, interview everybody week, week, week. Well, during the investigation the IA investigator thinks her anxiety stuff that happens because she's freaking out about all this is quote signs of untruthfulness is how he interprets it. And they know she has PTSD anxiety. Subject her to a polygraph. She freaks out in the polygraph, tells them my anxiety is really bad, like I'm freaking out, I need to take a break. Yes, I need to take a break. Well, she fails the polygraph. Signs of untruthfulness she's on a Brady list, yeah holy shit, can you for?
Speaker 1:people, not Brady list can you explain to people who are listening that may not fully understand what is the Brady List?
Speaker 2:So the premise of it is that you want to be able to help people defend themselves in criminal trial so they're not going to go to prison if they shouldn't be in prison or prove the right kind of crime Like is it murder or is it manslaughter, whatever, if it's murder, you've got to prove intent. Well, you want to make sure that the cops who bring that case to you are providing truthful information. Cops, you have to tell the truth. Even if you fuck up somewhere, you got to tell the truth about that, because the second you start to lie you cannot trust anything you say, which means every single charge you bring to charge somebody with something that they can't. Is it it the truth?
Speaker 1:Or have brought in the past.
Speaker 2:Right, and that's like Gerald Goins They've gone back to everybody he ever arrested and are letting them out, letting them out of prison, letting them out of jail.
Speaker 1:Homicide, yeah Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so if you lie, now it's if you lie about something that is that affects or applies to something that's in trial for a criminal defendant's case in trial. Now, if you got something wrong on your application for your job, that was 20 years ago and somebody wants to come after you which this is also an example so they dig into everything, including your, look at your application from 20 years ago and they try and match it up and something slightly off. So they say that's Brady, no, it's not. That, first of all, has nothing to do with a criminal trial. Second, 20 years ago, that's not something you could even introduce into trial anyway according to the rules of evidence, but it's something that would you have to be able to trust a cop's word in the job that they do in bringing criminal charges, because you have a lot of power in your hands and you have to keep that in check and I believe in that.
Speaker 2:I believe in the Brady case and the Giglio case, and you have people who are interpreting it the wrong way, like this lieutenant in North Carolina this is not Brady. Well, they report it to the DA. Da is like well, okay, well, I don't do what you do. So if you say this person's a liar, I'm just going to take your word for it. I call the DA and I say, hey, can I just talk to you about this? And he says I said is there anything we can do to get her off? They say, nope, only the police department can do that. Okay, but you don't know what you're talking about and you just ruined this girl's career for like, in horrible ways Anyway.
Speaker 2:So it's and it happens all the time or a DA another example where they come after an investigator who started taking part in investigating the district attorney's office for potentially fraudulent things. Well, the DA then gets mad, goes look at this guy's application from 20 years ago and then labels him as, puts him on a Brady list because some dates were wrong on his application, or something simple like that. That's not Brady. Brady is you lied to be able to charge somebody with something. You made up evidence, you made up facts. So therefore, if I find out about that, I need to tell the defense. You no longer. I might not be able to meet the elements of this crime that's what brady is?
Speaker 1:it's not pissing somebody off for reporting something that you didn't want reported now, are you able to, as an attorney, like, let's say, somebody comes to you and they're like they, they brady, listed me and I shouldn't be on it Didn't meet the elements. Are you able to fight that or is it done?
Speaker 2:So it depends. Okay.
Speaker 2:Typical lawyer response. But a lot of things we do. We call the DA. How do you get this? Can you get off the list? What's the process for getting off the list? Sometimes it's that they have have. Oh, we have a monthly review and we'll review it next month. And that happened one of my clients out of Washington state. They said, oh, we'll review yours the next month. They said, oh, we reviewed it, we decided so you're not on the list anymore, we took you off. Or sometimes it's never like oh, but so it is possible it is possible um precedence has been set.
Speaker 2:Yes, and not every it's it is it's it's agency by agency, jurisdiction by jurisdiction, county by county there's, so it's not a state thing no oh no, that's what makes it even worse oh shit there's no I personally think it's a 14th amendment violation.
Speaker 2:Um, I've talked to attorneys about it across the country, like North Carolina, for example. They have a part of their state constitution that gives them a right to work. They're trying to attack it as a violation of their state constitution. We don't have that in our Texas constitution, so we can't use that to fight it. But at the very minimum there should be a state law mandating notice requirements. They don't even have to tell you. They're putting you on the list what. I've talked with people who can't get a job, can't get a job, can't get a job. One time he gets a call from a reporter and says hey, can I talk to you about the fact that you're on this brady list? And he says what, what brady list? What are you talking about?
Speaker 2:yeah and he said he requested the records from the DA's office for the people on the Brady list your names on it. He says I have no idea what you're talking about, but I can't even get a. We can't get a job.
Speaker 1:Holy cow.
Speaker 2:So there's. They don't have to notify you. There's no appeal process, You're not allowed to plead your case and in some you never get off.
Speaker 1:Damn.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I've heard of officers that are working that are on the Brady list.
Speaker 2:I've heard that's a thing too. It's across, it's our deputies.
Speaker 1:I think they're actually deputies.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I've heard of the same thing and it makes me wonder like did they get put improperly on the Brady list and they were able to at least explain it to a sheriff who's they can hire whoever they want? Because they're in an elected position. So I bet that's the case and somebody said good, now you give me another talking point for later on down the line for my podcast stuff. Like you can be on the Brady list and still get hired because maybe you didn't really qualify.
Speaker 2:Well, and then maybe, depending on where you are one of the guys the guy who found out from a reporter he moved to another. He actually got hired as a chief. I had to move way like the other part of the state got hired as a chief and then he ended up hiring one of my other clients who had been Brady listed to work for him, because, I mean, it's a network. If you're on the Brady list, let me know. There's several things. One is I can connect you with, like this tech support group that they help each other out that.
Speaker 2:I'm not involved with at all. Yes, I can review your case and see like either I can give you an outline of what I think you should do, or or you know you can pay me to help you. I do both. Recently, a guy out of Minnesota you know couldn't afford to pay me to do it for him. I said, okay, well, here's the outline, here's go do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah do all these things over six months. It's really about being consistent, finding out what the procedures are. Who can you tell? What I say all the time is you're trying to make a private problem which is easy to ignore into a public problem, which is not easy to ignore. It could involve talking to the media, talking to your legislators, making sure they're aware they should care if good cops are being fired because there's not a single department in this country.
Speaker 1:that's fully staff, everybody's hurting, right, yeah, so you're firing good cops for wrong, bad reasons yeah and your legislators now are they always gonna respond?
Speaker 2:I don't know. That's why you got. You can't just try once? Like with my kids if I want them to eat broccoli. I made them try it three times. I didn't say like, oh, kids don't like broccoli. Duh, they don't. I mean, yeah, none of my kids, they eat broccoli.
Speaker 2:Now, yeah because I didn't give up um. So you have to be consistent. You have to. It's a multi-pronged approach. It's sometimes it could be an aspect of harassment, discrimination which is my client that was out of south dakota who's now working um. Hers was a south discrimination harassment case also. Sometimes it's not um, you got to look at it from a legal standpoint, public relations standpoint. Who do you need to talk to? Your legislators? Is the DA running for office? Can you contact their opponent to make sure the opponent knows that they're making your community less safe? It becomes like a political campaign. Can you talk to the media? But let me know, because a lot of times is that like I talk to people across the country about this. I talk with reporters, people who write about it, different unions that work on it, different parts of the country where, if it's not me, great, I'll get you the right person, but definitely to come up with a strategy for how to fight back Because you've lost your career if you're on a Brady list.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you want to be able to get it back. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, okay, good, that's a good explanation. I like that. Thanks, that's great. Well, you know how it is. Like I said, I like to get the education side of things, and if I sit there and say it, yeah I have a generalized idea, but it's cool because you're a legal expert and and you're a former cop, so you kind of have both sides of the house on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And, like I said, I've heard of people and I didn't really ever have an explanation. I'm like how are you on the fucking Brady list and you can work as a, as a cop?
Speaker 2:I don't understand how that works, I think, in general in Texas. It also depends on your DA Um.
Speaker 1:Brady, in the bigger communities is not as big of an issue, but it's still in smaller communities. Yeah, um, that needs to be a state decision.
Speaker 2:It really does and that so you know, texas legislature meets on odd years. They don't meet every year. Last year, right, this is 2024, 2023. There's a push to try and get that as a bill to get on the floor for them to vote on, and it couldn't get there. But I talked with like I went, and I also work with union lawyers.
Speaker 2:So if this is something that happens to you, if you're in a union, talk to them about. Go to your union, say, before you pay me. I always say, if you're. Every time somebody calls me, are you in union? Yes, have you talked to your union people about this? Yes or no? Like okay, go back to your union people about this. Yes or no? Like okay, go back to your union. Ask them these questions because if they can help you and provide an attorney for you that gets through your union dues, don't pay me. Yeah, talk to them first, but then they don't.
Speaker 2:Union lawyers don't do what I do. They don't do employment law, so that you're getting disciplined. You're being whatever. They're going to help you and represent you through that, but if it comes down to you need to file a harassment, discrimination claim. They don't file those. I do so, but I'll work with. So I like I've talked to the head of TMPA about Brady. I've told him I want to help. I want to be able to say I want to work with FOP, I want to work with TMPA. I've tried with cleat Anybody out there listening is in cleat Call me so we can talk, Cause cleet doesn't return my phone calls or hasn't yet. At least I haven't called the right person yet. Okay, but I've worked. I mean I've talked to head of TMPA. Like next time this comes up I want to help because you need laws surrounding it. The sad part is it's a federal case that allows people to be put on this Brady list, but it's applied at the local level and you would never get a federal law to mandate how that's done.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Especially with the current status of Congress and Supreme Court and all that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, there's this very big case called Roe v Wade. Not too long ago, that they're. They say that's a state issue that came up. That's probably what they would say now. This is a state issue, yep that they're.
Speaker 2:They say that's a state issue. That came up. That's probably what they would say. Now, this is a state issue, yeah, um, and really it's a. It's a low, it's a municipality, a county, and it goes. It goes down to your chief, your sheriff, of how this is done, like. I do think there needs to be a law. There are a couple states, I think, that have laws on how it's applied, like, but just procedurally, the problem is you could appeal and they could say, yep, you should be off the list, but they don't have to take you off the list and there's no consequences for somebody putting you on the list when they never should have put you there. Das will claim prosecutorial immunity. Like I said earlier, it's very broad, yeah, so it's sad and it's really frustrating.
Speaker 1:How versed are you in qualified immunity?
Speaker 2:I mean, what do you want to talk about?
Speaker 1:No, I, we, we don't have to talk about it today. I do want to. I've got a couple of people lined up and if, if you've got some confidence in qualified immunity mostly to support me because I'm dumb- and. I only know what I know, and it's nothing.
Speaker 1:I have no legal expertise to back it up other than I'm a cop and of course I want qualified immunity. I plan to have a discussion about it is one of the most pushed issues that, like I said, I tend to be a fence sitter and people hate that about me and I'm like I just take each issue on its own merit. So with qualified immunity, that's one that I'm like it's. It is as bad of a snowball effect as defund the police if you try doing that I think so too.
Speaker 2:I mean, yes, I could talk about qualified immunity again. It's case law from the us supreme court that one of the keystone right word, that the one of the important aspects of qualified immunity is that you cannot put yourself in the shoes of the officer in that moment when the shit's hitting the fan. Right. So it's like you can't peanut gallery, you can't Monday Monday, what is it called?
Speaker 1:Monday morning quarterbacking yes.
Speaker 2:I'm usually good at sports references, but that one's gone.
Speaker 1:Well, you're a girl, so You're right, total girl. It's the theme of this show, right, so we had to hit it.
Speaker 2:And so as long as then there's like, okay, how do you get you know if you've gotten? You have to perform according to your level of ability. You have to have the right training. You basically have to do what you knew or should have known in the moment, given your experience. And if you do, even if you don't necessarily have the best outcome, like somebody died or whatever they're not going to second guess you in the moment.
Speaker 2:Antonin Scalia is a former US Supreme Court justice. He died not that long ago. He was a staunch supporter of law enforcement and has some really good case law on qualified immunity. He's like there's no way that you can put yourself in like you're in a life or death situation. They have to make a split second decision. As long as they're acting within the right frame of reference or the right like the training. Again, it's what you knew or should have known, so it's that should have known part that can come down on your department.
Speaker 2:Another big one is I get asked a lot about agency liability for failure to train. If something bad happens and you're trying to defend and you want to try and sue your department, well, this happened to me because you refused training. I haven't really taken those cases yet but I probably will start taking them because there is a lot of case law specific to Texas about an agency's liability. A lot of it is like I've had females, for example, who were discriminated against and they know you can't go to training, know you can't go to training, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:So this poor female, this lady she called me actually right as her statute was expiring and I couldn't help. But they didn't train her, they put her on an understaffed shift, ended up being in a situation where somebody was about to run her over. She fired, she ended up getting indicted. It was later dropped and she wanted to sue the department saying like you never equipped me appropriately, you didn't even staff the shift the way you should have staffed it, and so that is one where that can be an agency issue, not an officer issue. But the important part of that is make sure you get the training you need. You can get away with some rookie mistakes initially, but you won't get away with that later If you're not getting the right training.
Speaker 2:You need to be vocal about that because you're going to be held to what you knew or should have known, and that is a legal term of art. So the training you hopefully get that you knew or should have known about, and you make the right, make a decision in that moment. There's only so much second guessing. That's what qualified, okay. So what is qualified immunity? It is a procedural tool to kick a case out of court at the very beginning if you qualify for immunity for your actions that's the key, that's I always point that out that's the key thing.
Speaker 1:You don't just get it you have to qualify it's in the name. You have to qualify for it and it's not. It's not a police department's choice. They don't get to say our officers got qualified immunity. They don't get to say that no it's. I don't even think, and this is me guessing, so you correct me if I'm wrong. It's a judge's decision, correct?
Speaker 2:ultimately if they're trying to get a case dismissed. So there's somebody sues you and you want to. You want to dismiss it right away, for because you've caught you qualify for immunity. Then you file that motion with the judge and the judge reviews it and they say, yep, it kicked out. Now what happens if they don't give you qualified immunity? It just means it goes through the legal process and that's shitty for you because you're going to experience that. But you're still just going to go through the regular process where they still have to prove their claims against you. But you could just know do not pass, go, do not collect 200, go home, you're good it's what qualified immunity kicks you out of the system earlier?
Speaker 2:um, but it's still that somebody actually has to file a lawsuit against you in court. And then your first motion to file with your answer, or there's a motion to dismiss for qualified immunity.
Speaker 1:Okay. So to go down the rabbit hole further, there's arguments this is people constantly throwing arguments at me Qualified immunity should be abolished because they should be like doctors and they should have their own legal liability insurance versus having the qualified immunity.
Speaker 2:Who should have a legal liability insurance versus having the qualified immunity? Who should have the liability insurance Cops?
Speaker 1:That's what cops should have to individually insure themselves, like a doctor would.
Speaker 2:Okay, so an insurance agency. They assess risk.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Before you get a health insurance policy or a life insurance policy, you have to go get a checkup to see how healthy you are and then they will tell you how much that life insurance policy or a life insurance policy. You have to go get a checkup to see how healthy you are and then they would tell you how much that life insurance policy costs. My life insurance policy is not that much because I'm really healthy. I would imagine the super obese 600 pound person might not be able to get life insurance at all because they could die next month. Now I want a $5 million life insurance life insurance policy. Okay, we'll give that to you as cheap, as I don't think you're gonna die anytime soon. Super fat guy or girl, nope, you might die next month. I'm not paying out five million dollars for you, or your life insurance policy is so expensive for your premium that you'll never be able to afford it. How do they assess risks for law enforcement officers in the job of law enforcement?
Speaker 1:well, people will tell you it's not as dangerous as being a pizza delivery guy.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, show me some stats. My conversation that would be you have to assess risk. Who's going to issue that policy? It's things like you have a hard time getting home insurance in the Gulf because of hurricanes. Well, you know that in law enforcement, the longer you're in this career you're going to face danger. The very first call that I got on patrol, new Year's Day, 2000, 2000, 2001, 2001. In the patrol car by myself, for the first time ever, rolling out at 3 pm, 3.05-ish shots fired into an occupied home and the shooter's on scene and I'm five minutes away. I'm closest by myself. You talk about pucker, right, that's the first call I get. So how do you assess that risk? Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:And how do you assign value to that? And what would the premium be? And what if they can't afford it? Who's going to subsidize it? Somebody's going to subsidize it because you want everybody to have it, but cops don't make enough money anyway.
Speaker 2:Right, I mean there's all kinds of problems with that that's part of my argument is like okay, then you're going to have to pay cops a doctor's fee, like you're going to have to pay them, like you would pay a doctor and yeah, you can't. Qualified immunity. Read what it's about. Read what the definition is. Read how it's supposed to apply. Am I saying it's always applied properly? Not necessarily, but I can't think of a case off the top of my head where it was applied erroneously. It's that they are assessing what happened in the moment, given your experience, the training, what happened in the moment, given your experience, the training you the way you should did or should have acted, and they do take that into consideration.
Speaker 1:but nobody can ever be in your shoes when you feel like you're about to die yeah, and what do you say to states like, I think, new york city specifically that said, they've their city council voted and they are.
Speaker 2:They've gotten rid of qualified immunity well, I think that's very convenient, considering that's not a city issue, that's not a city law yeah, it's a federal right, finding right it's federal. Okay, it can be case law or it can be codified I think that's in the new york state statutes, but don't. I'm not putting my life on that right now because I don't remember right now but. But either way, it's case law from the US Supreme Court which the New York City Council does not have any, does not control.
Speaker 1:Right. So I'm just curious how that works where they've said they've kind of gotten rid of it.
Speaker 2:Also, if you're suing a cop, you are more than likely suing either state court or federal court. If you're in federal court, city policies mean nothing. If you're in federal court, the laws that apply are the state of New York and federal statutes, not New York City laws.
Speaker 2:Now there is a choice of law issue and depends on the laws that apply given the situation, but your credentials to be a cop that give you the legal right to shoot somebody. Otherwise, as I gave a presentation a couple weeks ago, you are the only profession I was too Well you're allowed to murder. Murder is killing someone with intent. Murder, kidnap, false inment, assault, battery, robbery. Those are all crimes for everybody else. It's not for you. There's a lot of power that goes with that.
Speaker 1:I had this discussion today and they're like so you're basically saying you're above the law? I'm not saying I'm above the law. I'm saying there are things I am allowed to do because of the law. That's not me saying I'm above the law. I'm saying there are things I am allowed to do because of the law.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not me saying I'm above it. Yeah, and it's recognizing that that's a huge power and it is easily abusable. Your certification to do that, let's use new york. Texas comes from the state of texas, right? What you being certified, the process for that texas law, what you are allowed to do or not do texas law, how you would be disciplined, how you would be fired Some of that's again. We're in Atwell State so you can be fired for stupid reasons like donuts, yeah, but that's Texas law, new York. New York does certification for cops, controls the training they're supposed to have. Sexist you're supposed to have, know. Sexist you're supposed to have. What a 40 tico credits, years, whatever right.
Speaker 2:That's texas law. That's not houston law or el paso law or new york city law. That's state law. So the court you're in like it's all fine and dandy, well, I'm suing you in new york city, but state court or federal court, like city policies, have nothing to do with that. Now, the crappy part is that you are a new york city cop and everything about what you do like you're hired by the new york city, the entity of new york city. So how much are they supporting you? If they're taking away protections, they're. If they're verbalizing that they want to take away some of your protections, they don't support you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that's the crappy part yeah but do they have any application whatsoever in taking away your qualified immunity?
Speaker 1:no, that's what I said. Okay, so I wasn't. I was like they can say and do whatever they want they're just bang on a stupid drum. I gotcha okay, unfortunately a loud drum yeah but because I my argument was like here is going to be the official fallout. If you were to get rid of qualified immunity, like for me, if I couldn't get an office job, like prior to that decision, I'm done. I'm done, I'm not even going to risk it.
Speaker 2:They would have to completely overturn all US Supreme Court cases. As it defines qualified immunity.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:For that to happen.
Speaker 1:And then the counter that some people that are, you know, abolish qualified immunity. They're more wanting. They're like, well, that's because you know you're going to go do corrupt things. I'm like, no, that has nothing to do with it. The point is, is I don't want to be sued, you know, on a whim, and have to be tied up in every legal battle because you can be sued.
Speaker 2:If we didn't have it, we could be sued I understand the justice, the basis behind anybody saying so you're just going to go do corrupt things really yeah, like they think that we go do corrupt things ignorantly and we willfully do it ignorantly because we know we won't get in trouble yeah, that's how. Again. Also, you should ask everybody in domestic violence, every victim of domestic violence, if they still have sex with their husbands, because maybe that's why they got beat up. Right, I mean, that's the same logic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so you got raped because you were wearing high heels. You asked for it Victim shaming. I mean that's the same logic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, like I said, it's just, it's been a it's been a hot topic. Yeah, I'm going to do some live conversation stuff, so make sure you got a mic and a camera and all that good stuff.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely want to get you back.
Speaker 2:You should follow Lady Law Shield on Instagram.
Speaker 1:You see, almost I was going to say, before we go, is there anything that we haven't hit?
Speaker 2:that you were like I want to talk about this, I want to talk about that, um I mean I'm presenting tomorrow and one of the things I'm at I'm going to talk about I mean I don't know much case law stuff to talk about. There's a recent us supreme court this year came out with a ruling. A female and again this can apply in many situations, whether you're being as harassment discrimination, are you being retaliated against because you took FMLA leave or because you took workers comp or whatever. So this is not just a female gender discrimination issue, although that was, it was, that's what it was in this situation. But this female this was so stupid. They she was on this unit and they wanted her off so they could replace her with a male.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm just telling you right now, as your legal advisor, the red flags are waving over that yeah because automatically you're making it about gender and you better have a really, really damn good reason for saying you don't want a female in that job unless it's like qualifications. Or you suck like you don't perform well and you can't want a female in that job unless it's like qualifications. Or you suck like you don't perform well and you you can't do the job, or you're never like whatever if it's merit related or like inability to do the job fit for duty yeah, shouldn't matter, and she happens to be a female.
Speaker 2:But hers was. They wanted to transfer her out because they wanted a guy in the job. So they transferred her. She didn't lose rank and she didn't lose pay. They didn't they didn't like demote her, but she lost other perks. Um, she transferred to a different shift. She didn't have the same responsibilities, she was not working weekends. She hadn't done that on the house. She's on this rotation when you know you get to a point in your legal career where I mean your law enforcement career and legal, I don't want to work weekends yeah I don't work midnights, you're crazy.
Speaker 2:I don't work midnights, yeah, um. But they put her back, like they. You know she went down a rung the us. The trial court kicked it out, said nope, transfer doesn't qualify for discrimination. Appellate court said nope, doesn't qualify. Us Supreme Court says yes, it does. So now this is very specific kind of to just a transfer. Like does that qualify for harm? No-transcript. And that significant part of that is don't be stupid. Like, and again, it wasn't women, wasn't this particular situation, it was a gender or that's called sex discrimination. But it can be.
Speaker 2:I don't want you here because you were just on FMLA, but I'm retaliating against you because you took FMLA. Or you have protections under FMLA, which is different than EEOC. You could have both. Or, like I said, I keep bringing up workers' comp because I get a lot of cases where they're retaliated against after they take workers' comp. Nobody knows and to make this plug, you will not be a cop someday and you want to be able to enjoy life and conferences.
Speaker 2:Anybody listening to this if you're in law enforcement, raise your hand or nod your head if you know somebody that dropped dead right after they retired. We all do. Now can I say that each one of those or because they ignored their health for too long? Not necessarily, but is there a really good chance that they ignored their health for too long and let things exacerbate? And finally, now that they don't have the job to hold on to and they're losing their identity, which is also? Please, have a life outside of work. For multiple reasons, including the fact that you're given the power to murder, kidnap, falls in prison, which that's not what we do. That's not what it is in your world. We're not murdering, but for civilians, that's what would be. You get my point, so take care of yourself. So the plug for workers comp at the end of all my presentations.
Speaker 2:I do not do workers comp claims. It's complicated, it's state-specific, it's different in every but you should always hire an attorney because I promise you'll get more money than if you try and do it on your own. They're going to wrap you up in red tape and you're not going to know how to get out of it. You might give up, but also make your claim because you will not be in this job forever. I want you to live a long and happy life. I want you to be able to move and walk and talk and be active. Like for me, if I was still in law enforcement I would be retiring about now and I have a seven year old. Let's just say that's how that played out. Well, I want to enjoy my son for a long time and my daughters and my husband, like I'm not going to let the job ruin my physical life. So we must make that claim.
Speaker 2:But also, they can't retaliate against you and only you know what your prognosis is, what your recovery is, and I don't care if behind your back they're calling you all kind of names because they think you've been on workers' comp leave or light duty for too long. Are there people who abuse that system? Of course, but that doesn't mean you are. I certainly wouldn't have. I would have wanted to be back on the job.
Speaker 2:Now, let's say I got hurt when I was on SWAT team. Would I have wanted to report something and then potentially risk not getting back to SWAT team? Of course that would have been a worry for me, but I also don't want to die for the job in that way or the mental health slide that happens. Let's say something happens and you're in constant agonizing pain. That is also a significant mental health issue, because it's hard to live with constant pain. You end up wanting to stop it at all, whatever cost. So just that's my plug for that. Take care of yourself.
Speaker 2:If they start retaliating against you, call me. I can at least give you a plan of action to tell you what to do. Put them on notice. Here's some tips I always say, like what do you want people to know? People ask me that One write it down. You must write this down.
Speaker 2:If anything I've said today, my story, examples, case law, whatever triggers something. Oh shit, that happened to me too. Write it down. I don't care if it happened five years ago. Start writing it down now, because if you hire me, the first thing I'm going to say is write down your timeline of events. I need dates and names. What do you mean? Names? I'm not a rat. Yes, in this situation you are.
Speaker 2:You're going to write down if they did it to you or they didn't do it to somebody else. Why? Because the EEOC wants to know who did they say yes to, if they said no to you, who didn't get disciplined if you got disciplined, because otherwise you're like oh, I don't really want to rat on anybody. The EEOC is going to say, okay, good luck to you. Then you don't have a claim. You have to prove how you're treated differently or wrongly and then you have to report it. And I know a lot of people are like no way. What good is it to write it down? Maybe that's therapeutic for you, maybe you'll feel better if you write it down.
Speaker 2:But most, and obviously if you need somebody like me, is you need to report it and you have to report it twice, to hr and to your chain of command, and there's not the same thing. So many times I have people call me. They say, well, I reported to hr, you know, and then what happened? You seen that ron white, or you listen to the ron white or watched it, where the cop is like they, we shot 60 bullets and then what happened? And then he got away. Anyway, you got to watch Ron and I. It's really funny, it's the blue collar comedy tour HR.
Speaker 2:Well, what happened when you reported to HR? Nothing, or well, hr got back to me and said that they decided it wasn't worth investigating. Okay, well, that's not HR's job. So you must report it twice. And I've heard so many examples of where I'm talking to people in command at a law enforcement agency where they've said if I would have ever found out this was happening and nobody ever told me about it, or HR decided on their own that they never told me about it I would have been so upset. So many chiefs I've talked to that said if I would have known, because they spent several thousand dollars on me even in the short amount of time I was there for all the training that I got, all the trips that we went on, I mean like the SWAT roundup. I mean that's several thousand dollars per person they spent for that competition.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's several thousand dollars per person they spent for that competition Gone flushed down the toilet. Now, did I have the institutional knowledge of what you have after all your career? No, but they still spent a lot of money on me. I would have gotten that, I would have stuck around. Parents probably were very happy that. I mean they were sad for me, but they were also very happy. But so you must report it because it will not change. Not change, sadly, nobody's going to handle it for you.
Speaker 2:My captain knew something was happening and tried to do what he could, but ultimately it was up to me to report it for them, for to, to really be able to go to them and say stop this or else. And also because I didn't report it, that means that my sergeant, my lieutenant, didn't think anything they're doing was wrong and so they would have kept. That means that my sergeant and my lieutenant didn't think anything they're doing was wrong. That means they kept doing it. There was never another female on SWAT team, but it probably would have been the same, because they didn't care if I quit. In fact, I went to watch SWAT Roundup right after I left the narcotics unit, because I was in the area and I liked SWAT Roundup. I saw one of the guys that I'd seen the two years prior and he said oh hey, I heard you got um kicked off narcotics because you lied about a SWAT, a snitch like. Actually not true at all.
Speaker 2:They totally made that up about me so at the end of the day, it's up to you to defend yourself and stand up for yourself. Because do I care and at 49, what they were saying about me at 29? No, I don't, and I care about what's important to me. I care about my family and they have so much more important things in life. And will it suck in the moment? Maybe, probably. And I say, is it going to be easy if you report something like this? No, and what I always say probably not. That's what I usually say. And then I'll say also you didn't choose easy, you chose law enforcement, so you can do this. It's just not something you wanted to do, but you need to be able to protect yourself and stand up for yourself. So those are my plugs. But also, last thing I'll say you probably, hopefully, will never need me as a, as your attorney. I hope you don't.
Speaker 2:But what I tell you is, like you do firearms training, hopefully a lot you're in the military and I always ask this you know why do you train over and over and over again for the same thing?
Speaker 1:because it's a perishable skill and you never know.
Speaker 2:But what happens when the shit hits the fan?
Speaker 1:Muscle memory takes over. Muscle memory.
Speaker 2:So that you know how to shoot right away, you know how to clear a gun jam right away. You can do it without thinking about it. Well, I want you to sign up for my newsletter or follow me on Instagram, because I consider that tactical employment, law training, because I want you to see it and see it, and see it in little snippets. I'm not lecturing you all the time, it's not law school but I want you to know oh, that's okay, that okay, that's what that means. Okay, that's what that means.
Speaker 2:So that you're at work and something happened and you think, oh, no, no, no, no. Bridget said this is not how it's supposed to be. Right away, you know, know it's wrong and right away you know that you can start to take action on it because the job is doing too much to you anyway. The job is the job. You can't take away evil, dead people, mayhem, critical incidents, any of that. But you can control how you're like what's happening at work for you. Now, that might mean going to another department, it might mean reporting it so that they can fix it. Remove the cynicism for your life just a second and think but how can they fix it if they don't know about it. Yeah, maybe are they going to handle that wrong, maybe they will handle it wrong, maybe they won't handle it wrong, maybe they will fix it and discipline somebody or transfer somebody or whatever. But they can't do it if they don't know about it Right.
Speaker 2:So follow along. Let me give you your tactical employment law training all the time, because I want you to know what to do in the moment. Again, even with that, maybe you'll never need, but I just want you to know. I'm not sure, maybe I shouldn't say anything, but I want you to follow along. You're like bullshit. Bridget told me this is not supposed to happen, and now I know what to do.
Speaker 1:How do they find it?
Speaker 2:Good question. Ladylawshieldcom, my website. You can find the things. If you need to book a call with me, you can do that. I do offer calls to have conversations to talk about and I can tell you whether or not I think I can help. Newsletter you can sign up for there, your tactical employment law training and there are links to social media. Okay, so you can find it all at ladylawshieldcom.
Speaker 1:Excellent. Well, ma'am, I appreciate your time.
Speaker 2:This was great yeah.
Speaker 1:This was a two and a half hours of continuous education which is, go to the bathroom, which is exactly what I hope for these shows that's what it's supposed to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hate when I have to like, force things out of people, I know. Yeah, but I appreciate your time. Yes, and we'll end this. Everybody. Thank you for tuning in and, uh, make sure you check out two cops one donut when you get bored. Disclaimer welcome to two cops one donut podcast. The views and opinions Disclaimer. Welcome to Two Cops One Donut podcast. The views and opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Two Cops One Donut, its hosts or affiliates. The podcast is intended for entertainment and informational purposes only. We do not endorse any guests' opinions or actions discussed during the show. Any content provided by guests is of their own volition and listeners are encouraged to form their own opinions. Thank you for listening.
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