2 Cops 1 Donut
We were asked “what exactly is the point of this show?”Answer: social media is an underutilized tool by police. Not just police, but firefighters, DA’s, nurses, military, ambulance, teachers; front liners. This show is designed to reveal the full potential of true communication through long discussion format. This will give a voice to these professions that often go unheard from those that do it. Furthermore, it’s designed to show authentic and genuine response; rather than the tiresome “look, cops petting puppies” approach. We are avoiding the sound bite narrative so the first responders and those associated can give fully articulated thought. The idea is the viewers both inside and outside these career fields can gain realistic and genuine perspective to make informed opinions on the content. Overall folks, we want to earn your respect, help create the change you want and need together through all channels of the criminal justice system and those that directly impact it. This comes from the heart with nothing but positive intentions. That is what this show is about. Disclaimer: The views shared by this podcast, the hosts, and/or the guests do not in anyway reflect their employer or the policies of their employer. Any views shared or content of this podcast is of their opinion and not intended to malign any religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything. 2 Cops 1 Donut is not responsible and does not verify for accuracy any of the information contained in the podcast series available for listening on this site or for watching shared on this site or others. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. This podcast does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services.
2 Cops 1 Donut
Bridging the Gap: Challenges and Triumphs in Modern Law Enforcement
Craig Floyd, founder of Citizens Behind the Badge, joins us to offer a compelling glimpse into the often unheralded world of law enforcement. Hear how a simple act of gratitude from a homeless man at a police funeral revealed the profound and often unseen kindness of officers, challenging prevailing stereotypes. We tackle the shifts in law enforcement since 9/11, the impact of the defund movement, and the critical loss of 40,000 officers, exploring how these changes affect morale, recruitment, and public perception.
Our conversation navigates the complexities within police departments facing rapid promotions and the loss of veteran mentorship, questioning the effects on department integrity and community trust. Craig and I emphasize the importance of positive law enforcement interactions, from School Resource Officers shaping young minds to the crucial role of sergeants in maintaining team morale. We highlight the enduring brotherhood among officers, especially during National Police Week, and discuss the vital support networks for families of fallen officers.
We explore initiatives aimed at bridging the gap between law enforcement and communities, with insights from Craig’s experiences and our joint aspiration for a future strengthened by technology and strategic planning. Discover how we aim to counteract the effects of defunding, enhance recruitment, and foster public appreciation for police work. This episode promises to leave listeners with a renewed understanding of the challenges and triumphs within the law enforcement community, inspiring a dialogue filled with empathy and support.
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Coming up next on Two Cops, One Donut.
Speaker 2:Eric, if I might just share one story you've reminded me of, related to a police funeral. I used to do a radio show and at the end of the show I would usually interview a survivor of a fallen officer. And this one interview I did this was many years ago, but I asked the surviving spouse. I said what do you remember about the police funeral for your husband? And she said Craig, it was a blur that day. I remember very little about the ceremony or what happened around me. She said, but I remember one moment.
Speaker 2:She said this homeless man came up to her at the church and he introduced himself and he said you don't know me, but I'm here to pay my respects to your husband, because you probably don't even know this. But every night before your husband went home to you and the kids, he stopped to check on me and he gave me a blanket in the winter, he made sure I had a few dollars, he made sure I had a meal and he just watched out for me and I'm here to pay my respects and to say thank you. And that woman said you know, craig? What was most amazing to me about that story is my husband never once mentioned what he did for that homeless man and I'm sure, eric, you have many of those same kind of stories. Every cop I know does reaches out has such a big heart. They want to help people in need. Fucker, you made me cry.
Speaker 1:Right, I mean, this is happening behind the scenes. One Donut podcast. The views and opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Two Cops, one Donut, its host or affiliates. The podcast is intended for entertainment and informational purposes only. We do not endorse any guests' opinions or actions discussed during the show. Any content provided by guests is of their own volition and listeners are encouraged to form their own opinions. Furthermore, some content is graphic and has harsh language Viewer discretion advised and is intended for mature audiences. Two Cops, one Donut and its host do not accept any liability for statements or actions taken by guests. Thank you for listening. All right, welcome back, eric Levine. Two Cops, one Donut podcast. I have with me today Craig Floyd. How are you, sir, doing? Great, eric, awesome, awesome.
Speaker 1:We have some more technical difficulties, as usual with the new growing pains of the new studio. So the program I use is called Restreamio and if you are listening to this or if you end up watching this, this is going to be my first vertically recorded episode and when we put clips out, things are going to look a little different. So be expecting that and we are going to try and work through the kinks together as this episode gets recorded For those listening. This is not a live recording. This is all going to be pre-recorded for you, because you never know what's going to come out of our mouths and I can't be mentioned in my department and all that good stuff, and you never know what Craig's going to whip out there and say. And so we're just going to be safe and do a pre-recording. Anyway, thanks for listening this episode. We're going to talk about the National Police Museum Memorial. I believe we're going to talk about a nonprofit called Citizens Behind the Badge, and I'm missing one more thing, craig. What else are we talking about?
Speaker 2:Now it's the National Law Enforcement Museum, the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial and Citizens Behind the Badge. I think you nailed it.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, I was close enough. I knew it was getting there somewhere. And before we get too far, craig, I'm reading your website right now for the Citizens Behind the Badge and it says that you guys are a 501c4. I've never heard of that. What does that mean?
Speaker 2:C4, most people are familiar with C3. That's charities and they're nonprofits. Also, the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, which I led for 34 years, was a C3. We're a C4 with Citizens Behind the Badge because, while we're tax exempt and we're IRS approved, we do a lot of lobbying, a lot of influencing, hopefully, of Congress and state and local legislators and, as a result, when you engage in more than just about 10% of your total work on lobbying and government advocacy, you have to be a C4. Otherwise you just won't meet the standard. Okay, okay.
Speaker 1:I was curious. I just I never heard of it, so I was like what is a C4? Okay, cool, awesome, all right. So, craig, the way we usually roll with these episodes is I want people to get to know you. So where are you from and what kind of led you down this got you to this law enforcement backing experience?
Speaker 2:I had an internship my senior year. I was a political science minor. I wanted to work on Capitol Hill and got a taste of it, loved it and I applied for jobs on Capitol Hill. Working for a congressman or senator Really didn't have one in mind. I went to the placement office. They ended up pairing me up with a guy named Mario Biaggi. He was a congressman from New York City, the Bronx primarily, and he had been there for 10 years by the time. I interviewed with him and he eventually hired me.
Speaker 2:Now, what I did not know about Congressman Biagi at the time was that he was a legendary police officer in New York City. In fact, when he retired after 23 years of NYPD service, he was the most decorated cop in New York City history. He was wounded 10 times in the line of duty. He was awarded the Medal of Honor for valor. Usually you unfortunately have to receive that posthumously. He fortunately survived a shootout inside an automobile and escaped with his life. Well for the bad guy he died. But Congressman was quite a legend in his time 23 years of New York City service in police and then went on to serve 20 years in Congress.
Speaker 2:Every piece of issue legislation related to law enforcement came through our office because he was, of course, the champion for law enforcement in Congress during those 20 years he served and when police officers had an issue or a concern or wanted something done, they came to Congressman Biagi. I was his legislative assistant for 10 of those years and one of the bills that he introduced at the request of law enforcement officers was to build a national law enforcement officers memorial and we introduced that bill in 1980. And in 1984, that bill became public law and it established a national law enforcement officers memorial in Washington DC, but did not designate a site, did not give us any money in DC, but did not designate a site, did not give us any money, basically left it to us to get the job done. And Congressman Biagi, who was involved in so many issues other than just law enforcement, turned to me. It was a privilege. He said, craig, make sure that memorial gets built. And I became the founding CEO of the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund and served for 34 years in that role.
Speaker 2:In 1991, we actually dedicated the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial and it sat there now for 33 years. Hard to believe time goes by quickly and interestingly, when we dedicated that memorial. In 1991, october 15th, there were 12,561 names on that memorial. Today they have more than 24,000 names on the memorial and we decided after the memorial was built, what else did we want to accomplish. It turned out that memorial was very special.
Speaker 2:Every year, some 30,000 or so police officers, survivors of the fallen, citizen supporters come to Washington DC for National Police Week in May and we felt like we could do more, since we had such an important focal point for law enforcement, and we decided to build the National Law Enforcement Museum. That was a BHAG, a Big, hairy, audacious Goal we developed in 1998. Us Senator Ben Nighthorse Campbell introduced that legislation for us. It became public law and it designated the land right across the street from the memorial for our national museum, and that took 20 years to build and we dedicated the National Law Enforcement Museum in 2018. And I retired at the end of that year.
Speaker 2:Having accomplished all the goals I had set out to do and felt like my time was up.
Speaker 2:I turned it over to others who now head up the organization and head up the museum and memorial. And the other thing I'm very proud of and we can talk about it more, eric is the Memorial Fund really became the premier organization for the welfare and the safety of law enforcement. We promoted safety, we promoted officer wellness, physical as well as mental health, and that program continues. I'm very proud of that. That's the third pillar, if you will, of the Memorial Fund, the others being the museum and the memorial. So that's really my journey and I'm very proud of what we accomplished. And, by the way, then, two years after my retirement, george Floyd dies on May 25th 2020, and all hell breaks loose. Everybody starts hating on cops across this country. I couldn't sit on the sidelines, having been such an advocate of law enforcement, having met thousands of officers, having honored so many who sacrificed their lives, their family members, and I wanted to do something to help. So that's why I started Citizens Behind the Badge in 2020, september that year, and I'm continuing to do that to this day.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I got a lot of questions already. When you first got started, you didn't have any law enforcement background, nobody in your family, nothing like that. That was like, okay, this is what I'm going to get into. This was purely because you got underneath basically NYPD's finest and did he kind of guide you into seeing through the eyes of a law enforcement officer.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I mean, congressman Biagi told me all his war stories, told me the fun he had as a cop, the terrifying moments he had as a law enforcement officer, so I got to appreciate law enforcement through his eyes. Certainly I did have two uncles who served in law enforcement here in the Washington DC area, but that really wasn't a catalyst for me. I certainly appreciated what they had done and knew of their police service, but it was Congressman Biagi that inspired me to walk this path for the last 40 years now and I couldn't be more privileged.
Speaker 2:Really, I mean, how many people I've thought about this, often have the opportunity to build a national monument in our nation's capital and a national law enforcement museum and to advocate for a profession that really deserves a lot more than they get normally. I feel like I'm the one citizen in this country who has a true appreciation and understanding of what law enforcement does and what they mean to this country, because I've met so many of them and I've heard so many of the stories.
Speaker 1:I tell so many of the stories and I'm proud to be a law enforcement citizen's advocate, and I want to continue in that role until I take my last breath going to find as we talk, but to have such a passion towards a career field that I think you kind of live through its peak and through its definitely its rock bottom valley. Right, I would say right now recruiting's at an all-time low. Nobody wants to do this as a profession, they want to do it as a stepping stone. Now it's really weird to have young rookies on my team Like, yeah, I'm going to do police work for the next three to five years so I can go to law school and then have a better idea. And I'm like what? Like who? That's never been a thing. And you, craig, you've seen it since what I? You know my dad was a. He retired 30 years law enforcement. So I I remember him talking about policing.
Speaker 1:You know, in the eighties and the early nineties like to me that was the, that was the heyday of law enforcement Like they just people loved them, they got support and you know, even after you know I think it started to kind of dip a little bit.
Speaker 1:But then nine, 11 happened and then there was a new appreciation again for first responders. And I hate saying that tragedy is what helps people remember what it is that we do for them and not that I want to pat on the back or anything like that, but for you you got to see it all, man. And not only did you do that and got, just like you said I don't know anybody that can say they got a national monument set up in DC. And thank you, by the way, for getting them so close together. Like it just makes things so much better for us as cops, because how often do you're like, okay, I'm going to go over to this museum and then you find out like the memorial for it is, you know, across the state, across the country, like, so just thank you for putting them together. The logistics behind that had to be mind-numbing for you.
Speaker 2:That was. You know, when you look back it's like running a marathon, right Like if you knew how tough it was going to be and how much you're going to hurt at the end you probably wouldn't have started it. But once you get into it, you know it's like. I've been an athlete all my life and I love competition and I think the idea of getting both those tasks done building the memorial first that took seven years, and then going on to build the museum that took 20 years. And you know, I have run a few marathons and I'm kind of into the long, slow distance I'm willing to put in the time. I have the patience, if you will, and the persistence, perseverance, and I'm truly blessed. You mentioned 9-11. I couldn't help but think of a moment.
Speaker 2:One week after the attacks at Ground Zero there in New York City, I was invited to tour the site, meet the first responders who were working the site, and I felt a little guilty. I said, why should I do that? And my New York City PBA friend, who invited me up to do this, said Craig, you've got to come, you've got to meet the people, you've got to meet the families of the officers who were missing at that time but eventually declared dead because you're going to be telling their stories for the next generation. And he was right. I mean, I bring up this story often. We were at ground zero. I bring up this story often.
Speaker 2:We were at ground zero, I was very somber, nobody was really talking much, everybody had masks on. And we're riding in a patrol car out of ground zero to the neighboring offices and the public had been kept at bay because of some fencing and such, and a couple hundred people had gathered at this point where we were exiting and as we rolled close to them with the lights on the patrol car flashing, driving very slowly, they started cheering and applauding and they held up signs that said we love our police and our firefighters. And it sent chills down me. Yeah, I just got goosebumps Right.
Speaker 2:I mean, this is what I was working all my life toward to try to get people to appreciate and understand the value of law enforcement, what they're willing to do literally put their lives at risk so that the rest of us can be safe. And these people got it, you know, but it took, unfortunately, the loss of 72 police officers on 9-11 for that to happen. Officers on 9-11 for that to happen and it is a tragedy, as you said, that you know. We need to have these terrible moments for people to truly wake up and appreciate what's going on around them and thank the police officers for what they did. But I would say, eric, just like you alluded to, six months after 9-11, you know we saw through our donations they started to drop off and they never really got back to where they were, anywhere close to what they were like at 9-11.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we have short memories. They said never forget, they forgot, I promise, and it sucks. Sucks for the career right now especially. We're just not getting the numbers we need, we're not getting the quality that we want.
Speaker 1:And you know, the defund the police and stuff like that, that really was a catalyst. I think people are eating crow now because you see, these areas that they did the defund the police and they aren't defunding the police anymore. And you know, normally I'm not a I told you so guy, but I feel pretty good about the I told you so on that. So you reap what you sow, and I think some of these cities deserve to hit rock bottom so they could truly see exactly what they were causing. But you know, what I don't like is the fact that so many police departments and police officers had to suffer and be unappreciated.
Speaker 1:And you know maybe you've heard this, craig but something that I've definitely been hearing lately is what have I been doing? What have like the regret of a career? I'm like that is probably one of the saddest things, because I love my job, I love being a cop, I love what I do. I can't imagine going 15, 20 years in a career and then looking back at this defund stuff. You know, at the end of your career, if you happen to be at one of those departments and then questioning everything that you've done in that 20 years, I mean, what type of feedback and stuff? Because you talk to cops. You talk to a lot more cops than I do and I do this podcast. So what have you been hearing? I mean, I know you started Citizens Behind the Badge and that's kind of a catalyst of it as well, but what have you been hearing from these officers from these departments that are leaving the career field because of their retirements and then seeing the citizens basically turn their back on them?
Speaker 2:Well, the morale I would say in law enforcement there ordered by a judge and a warrant, by the way, had no decision making of their own. But the point is, yeah, we have a real problem moving forward that people are not focused on nearly enough focused on nearly enough and that is we've lost, according to the Police Executive Research Forum, 5% of the law enforcement officers serving this nation as a result of the defund and defame the police movement. Now, what does 5% mean? That doesn't maybe sound like a huge number? 40,000 law enforcement officers that's how far down we've gone since the defund and defame the police movement that started in 2020. And those are absolute statistics. Okay, this isn't something that I'm making up. We've got to understand that 40,000 cops.
Speaker 2:There have been studies that have shown that for every 10 to 14 cops that are serving this nation, one life is saved. So if you do the math and you think about the 40,000 officers that we've lost over that three-year, four-year period, that means more than 3,000 innocent lives have been lost just because of the fewer cops that are serving our country. Now you have to multiply this by more than just that number, because what you've lost is the veteran officers, the ones with a lot of experience, a lot of expertise. They've been on the job, they know the ropes, they know how to do the job better than the young guys coming on guys and gals, by the way and the problem is that now we have fewer cops, but we also have lost so much institutional knowledge in the profession that it's going to take literally decades probably to get back to where we were.
Speaker 2:Think about it In 2019, the year before defund and defame started, we had the safest nation in recorded history, less violent crime than we've ever had in the years that we've been keeping track of it, and that's decades, going back decades. And so, all of a sudden, george Floyd dies and the knee-jerk reaction of these ultra-liberal politicians is let's abolish the police, let's reimagine police, let's defund the police, when, in fact, they were doing a better job than ever in the history of our nation leading up to George Floyd's death. So, all of a sudden, overnight. We hate cops, we think they're terrible, hey y'all, eric Levine, two Cops, one Donut.
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Speaker 2:Want to reimagine policing in a totally different way, when they were clearly better prepared, doing a better job than ever before in our nation's history. And that's what's so infuriating to people like me that know the facts and the figures. All right, we're, you know, to say let's reimagine policing. What does that mean? Okay, to some, it basically means let's take money away from police and turn it over to social workers and other housing and welfare programs, et cetera, et cetera. That's been proven to be ineffective. All right, we knew what was working, because in 2019, crime was at an all-time low, public safety was at an all-time high, and now it's reversed itself because of the knee-jerk reaction of these politicians that said you know, let's take money away from police. And then they, of course, should have realized, but didn't.
Speaker 2:Apparently, I'm going to have fewer police, we're going to have more crime. And then, by the way, we're going to lose a lot of cops, because all we do is beat them up, either figuratively or literally, and a lot of good cops have left the job, especially leadership. I mean, I've seen so many police chiefs, sheriffs, veteran officers who have left their jobs because they've been demonized, they've been demoralized, and you can't blame them. And now, of course, as you pointed to, who's going to take their place? Who wants to be a cop?
Speaker 2:Today I've talked to so many police officers who've been around for generations right them, their parents, their grandparents and now they're saying there is no way in the world I would tell my son or daughter to become a police officer because of what's happening in our country today. We've restricted them, we've taken their ability to do their job away from them, we demoralize them, we demean them and then, by the way, some of them go to jail because they're doing their job, and sometimes violence occurs and sometimes they have to make split-second decisions, and then all these critics have months and years to criticize what they did, and then some of them go to jail or penalized with money, and this is a terrible travesty. That's happened in our country and it's going to take many years to get it back to where it was.
Speaker 1:I want to go back. You brought up some stuff that sparked some insight police-wise that I'm sure you're probably aware of just because of your experience but other people may not know this and what you referred to. With the defund, the police like veteran officers going away. Another problem that people aren't realizing is that the days of police getting a great retirement and being rewarded for a life of service, that's a thing of the past as well. Now, what retirements are pushing is that you need to promote and you need to promote fast to have a decent retirement. So that is another problem.
Speaker 1:We're hurting ourselves internally because we're not getting the same type of support, the same sort of funding that we used to get when, yeah, okay, you have a police, you're a police officer. You have a pretty dangerous job, depending on where you're at. I'm not going to say that police work's the most dangerous job, and I think that cops, we kind of we're a little delusional when we go we got the most dangerous job in the world. No, we don't. Crab fishermen have the most dangerous job. Oil rig guys have really dangerous jobs. We have a dangerous job, don't get me wrong. It can be dangerous, but not the most dangerous, but it's dangerous. But my point is, after going out there and putting your life on the line which happens, or going out there and being selfless and trying to help people and living that life of service, the retirements aren't what they used to be, and that is a national trend, and they're just getting worse, just getting worse and worse. So what does that do? Yes, we're losing veteran officers because they're like this ain't worth it. I'm going to, I'm going to hit the drop and I'm out.
Speaker 1:And then the other thought, the other problem that people aren't seeing and, craig, I don't know if you're aware of this is you're getting two-year officers that promote, and then they promote again in two years, and then they promote again in two years and they promote again in two years. So you've got a eight to 10 year officer who's a lieutenant and a captain at a department. What experience do they have? And now, what you said, it's going to take decades, it's going to take generate. I mean, think about what you've just created. It could have been a great department and because you have these people promoting up the chain so damn quick, they don't have the experience to back up the rank. And I think not only are they good? They're either going to get pushed around or they're going to push around ignorance from the top, and that's going to destroy that department as well. So it's kind of a twofold thing. So these are two things I want people to be aware of. The defame and defund causes an issue, but then not supporting them with the retirements and things of that nature is going to cause another ripple effect, and those two together is disastrous for policing and that is what I'm concerned about. I am concerned about the and it's not to say that you know, the person that shot up the ranks real quick can't do that job. It's just unlikely. It's unlikely to have the experience to go behind it.
Speaker 1:I've been a cop almost, you know, 18 years. I still don't think I'd be ready to go be a chief or anything like that. Yet I need some command experience. You know, I'm a supervisor right now in the streets like patrol, and I feel like I'm still learning new shit every single day. You know, these rookies push me to the edge and then I find new stuff and they're talking a language I don't understand. It's police and I'm sitting there. I'm like man, am I this disconnected from police work? And then I got to bring myself back to center and be like they're still just stealing, they're still just being violent. You know, they're still got mental health issues, like I try to bring my back, to bring myself back to the simpleness of police work. These are the things that are going on. It's either somebody's commit a violent crime, they're committing a property crime they're committing, they're having a medical issue, like let's keep it simple. That's that's police work in a nutshell.
Speaker 2:But I couldn't agree more. I mean, when you look at, when we say it's going to take a generation to fix this problem that's been created by defund and defame you just look at the numbers. As you point out, it takes 20 years, 25 years, for a veteran officer to really have the smarts and all those years of wisdom, and now they're sharing it with the new guys and gals coming onto the job. We've lost that. So many officers have resigned. I think there was a 50% increase during the first couple of years 20 to 22, 50% increase in retirements of officers and a 20% increase in resignations. All right, so that's how many we've lost, how many more than would be normal in those years, and this is no small problem. And I'm afraid very few people are focused on that. They're saying, oh, the crime is going down, Everything's copacetic, everything's back to normal. Well, the numbers tell us opposite of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but those numbers are obviously towards what police want you to know them to be towards. They jockey the numbers up to make them look that way. That's what people are going to argue.
Speaker 2:Well, the major city's chiefs have done a study. They did a survey of their members and they found that when you compare 2023 homicide figures to 2019, the year before defund there's been a 21% increase in homicides in this country. Okay, so don't tell me that everything's back to normal and everything's hunky-dory all right.
Speaker 1:That's not a stat you can just shuck off or fake or doctor up. And the other argument I like to make to people that think that the police are going to doctor the numbers to make it fit their agenda no, because then it makes their city look worse. There's no city that's going to be like, hey, let's make that theft into a robbery because now it shows we got more right. No, if anything, they're going to do the opposite. They're going to dumb it down because there's no politician in that city that's going to want those stats to come out. So the stats you're getting are probably, I would say, on the conservative end, because that's the politics of it. So I think you're spot on when it comes to that. The other problem that you're talking about the 25-year officer. There's no such thing anymore as a 25-year officer, because even your 10 or 15-year officer is now like I got to promote, I got to get off the street Like I. If I don't, then I'm. There's no way they're going to retire as a patrol officer because that old school police mentality and the way that they used to police doesn't work anymore, because they're going to get crucified and they don't want to deal with it. It ain't worth it because they're getting hung out to dry all over the nation and it and I it's. It's like what did you expect to happen?
Speaker 1:And it stinks because now one of the things that I do with the podcast is I point out bad cops doing stupid things over and over these First Amendment auditors. Don't get me wrong, I have my own issues with First Amendment auditors. Do I think they've created some great police training? Sure, did they show a gap in training for police? Absolutely. I'm just glad they didn't test me first because I probably would have done dumb stuff not knowing, because you don't know what you don't know and if you're not really trained in it, sometimes it's hard to deal with that stuff. And these First Amendment auditors kind of showed a weakness that we had. But it's 2024. And we have had a ton of First Amendment auditor training now and I'm still seeing cops fall for this trap.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I'm just like how is this possible? Well, you know why it's possible is because you've been doing this defund, defame crap. Now you're getting bottom of the barrel recruitment, you don't have the money to put into the training, and now here's the product. And now you're going to get mad at your cops and wonder why you caused it. This is why and this is the product you're going to get but the police are the easy villain in it, because, yeah, they screwed up Go ahead.
Speaker 2:Now I was just going to say to your point the standards and the qualifications to become a new recruit today have been lowered so that they can get fewer of the officers that were the cream of the crop. They're going to get more that are middle to below the barrel. So this is going to be a continuing problem Again, not only the number of cops that are coming into the profession, but the quality of cops. I'll give you an example In Texas, correctional officers are at a crisis level in terms of shortage of correctional officers in Texas. So what they're doing now is they're allowing high school students to go into the prisons and jails and people as young as 18 years old to work in the jails and the prisons with the prisoners.
Speaker 2:I mean, these are very violent people they're dealing with and these are 18 18-year-olds. But that's how bad it's gotten. New York City lowered their physical standard so that no longer do the new recruits have to do a one and a half mile run because too few women were able to meet the standard of the old days, when they had a lot of women that could do it and that are now cops. They're pissed because they had to run at a certain level, and now they've dismissed that test entirely in New York City so that more women especially, and then some men could qualify that otherwise would not have in the old days. So these are examples of what we're dealing with now. Drug use no longer is a dismissal factor, so we've got a lot of cops coming onto the job that probably couldn't have made the standards in the old days.
Speaker 1:Right, and all you're going to see is more and more videos now of cops doing dumb stuff, and it sucks because we're getting beat up at every angle. There's, you know, you got departments that are eating their own. You've got, you know, das that are trying to make political statements and get their throw their hat in there to say, hey look, I'm prosecuting cops. You got qualified immunity. That they're. You know, like New York City Council's trying to. You got qualified immunity. That they're. You know like New York City Council's trying to say they're got rid of. I'm like you can't, it's a federal. You know the Supreme Court's made this ruling. I love the fact that you think your city council can get rid of it, but that's not how we work here. But what does that say to the police that work there? I know I wouldn't fucking work there. I would quit Day one. You get rid of qualified immunity. I'm out, and I've heard the argument um, cause I've. I've defended qualified immunity quite a bit on the on the platform and I try to tell people I'm like listen, you think, defund.
Speaker 1:The police created a mass exodus of cops. You know 40,000, 5%, like you were talking. Get rid of qualified immunity and see what happens. It's like you're not going to have cops. They just I'll be one of the. Unless I have an office job, I'm gone.
Speaker 1:Baby, I'm not. I love being a cop, but if you get rid of qualified immunity, I'm done. I can't risk my family and people are like you know well what. Because you're going to do corrupt things. No, because I could be sued frivolously for anything. All I have to do is I curse all the time. So if I curse on camera, I have violated a general order. Guess what? Now I'm subject to being sued just from that. So for those that are out there listening and they're talking about qualified immunity, you have to really understand the can of worms you'd be opening. They created it for a reason because you weren't going to get cops without the shit happens and you got to make decisions right fucking now, and so it may not be the right one sometimes. So if you don't have it, you already are having trouble getting recruiting and you get rid of that. Oh my lord, you are going to really craig. That's going to be your next mission, man. You're going to have to go fight for qualified immunity and we will, and that's on the agenda.
Speaker 2:I mean, if, if they keep coming after it, we're going to protect it as best we can. But uh, but you're right. I mean such short-sight politicians, such knee jerk reaction. I mean I think back to one of the first things they did in Minneapolis right after George Floyd's death is, they took, they abolished the school resource officer program and and then you have all the yeah, yeah. I mean so much has happened since 2020 in the schools. The number of shootings has doubled in the last couple of years. The number of guns that we found in schools has increased dramatically. I mean, it's a crisis. The safety in schools is at an all-time low.
Speaker 1:I'm going to cut you off while you're on that topic, one of the things I want to point out as a cop, I wish you knew how many things our SROs, our school resource officers, have squashed and found before it can become a tragedy. I wish you could know those numbers because it is incredible the number of times just in my city and you guys know, I'm not going to say my city, but in the North Texas area, in a major city the number of things that the SROs have done in my department alone have been unimaginable. The things that they have prevented because they are on top of their game and they take that seriously. And I say that because I want to give confidence to people that don't. You know, after the Evaldi thing happened there's been a lot of, you know, people's confidence has been shaken and I understand.
Speaker 1:But there's a lot of things that go behind those issues and I'm not going to get into that side of it. But I just want you to know that your SROs are important, they do a great job, they do a very important job that if your department isn't taking seriously and they're getting rid of a program, oh my God, that's such a bad idea. Because, just like you said, it is getting worse. We're getting more and more shootings. I don't know why. I don't understand.
Speaker 2:I don't get it. Look at the Georgia high school just a couple months ago, right where this guy with the gun goes in and he kills four people, wounds nine. And who was it that stopped him before he killed many others? It was two school resource officers that were highly trained in that high school who confronted him almost immediately and got him to surrender. He actually laid down his weapon and they made the arrest. If those two school resource officers were not there to do that job in such heroic fashion, who knows how many more people would have died.
Speaker 2:So to your point school resource officers, sros save lives. And to the point we were making earlier about recruitment, how many role models have allowed students in high schools to go on to choose a career in law enforcement because they love that school resource officer, because they saw what they were doing and how well they did it, and they were role models and they said I want to be in law enforcement because of that SRO. And I think we discount that, yeah, and unfortunately focus on other things that really make no sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get on officers because I've heard cops, you know like, oh, I'm going to try for that SRO spot. I'm like, oh man. I was like, oh, I'm going to try for that SRO spot. I'm like, oh man, I was like, good for you. I was like I don't have the energy for high schoolers, I couldn't do it or whatever it is. I just don't have the energy for that. And they're like, oh man, the schedule is going to be sweet, though I've got to take home car and get this and that I'm like that these kids are going to see.
Speaker 1:So I want people in that position that take that role seriously. I mean, you are your mentor, you're a figure, you're very impressionable to them because you're going to be, for most of them, their first impression of law enforcement, Because other than that, they're never going to really be around them unless they have a shitty upbringing and there's domestics or whatever. Maybe they live in the hood and there's a bigger police presence, but other than that, an SRO is a very, very vital position. So if you're out there listening and you're going to take that type of job, like, please don't do it because of the schedule, because you get the summers off and you, you know you got. You got Monday through Friday and all that every holiday off. Don't do that. I get it, that's cool, but take your role seriously.
Speaker 2:So I'll put an exclamation mark on that.
Speaker 2:There is about 20% of the people in this country that have any interaction at all with a law enforcement officer during their lifetime or during a typical year, let's put it that way and the majority of those interactions are traffic stops.
Speaker 2:All right, so that means fewer than 10% of the population here in the United States has any positive interaction with law enforcement. Certainly, the SROs would be a good example of a positive interaction, but every officer needs to understand that when they pull a driver over for a traffic stop situation, that may be that only that person's only ever interaction with a police officer and it's either going to be a positive experience I mean, it's probably negative because they got pulled over in the first place but that officer treating that driver respectfully, with dignity, not coming off as you know hey, I'm the law, whatever I say goes. That's going to make an impression and it can be a positive impression even though that person may get a ticket or a warning. But officers need to be aware of that. Treat people with respect and dignity as long as they allow it, yeah.
Speaker 1:I agree, and the other part that sucks now is social media. Don't get me wrong, I love social media. That's kind of the reason I started the podcast and all that. I was like cops, we're just not using it. You know like we need to use it better and um, but in that, one of the things that I'm seeing now is the trend of people sharing um I hate this term and I want to punch myself in the face for saying it but misinformation, where they're like oh, you don't have to roll your window down, oh, you don't have to do this, oh, you don't have to do that. So now people are recording, which I applaud. You Please record.
Speaker 1:When I make a traffic stop, one of the first things out of my mouth is hey, if you would like to record this interaction, now's the time. Grab your phone and start recording. And I afford that to them because I want to disarm them mentally because they're going to have their defenses up. Everybody does, I do. I've been pulled over, even as a cop. I'm like this motherfucker, what's he pulling me over for? So, cops, if you're listening to this, this is some gold right here. I'm telling you Do this. It will help diffuse the situation. Go up there. Hey, I'm Officer Levine, I work for blah blah, blah, blah, blah. The reason I pulled you over is this hey, at this time, if you want to record, if you're not already recording, I'd encourage you to grab your phone and start recording. I am audio and visually recording as well, and do you have any questions? Boom, okay, you just you've taken all the thunder from them right there, and you know that's just my experience talking.
Speaker 1:I was a big proponent for body cams. I had a body cam before they were even. I bought it off Tiger Direct, if anybody remembers that. It was before Amazon was even a thing. It was like a piece of crap 1.2 megapixel. It was just something. I just thought it would be a wise choice to have something, and I'm so glad that, even through some of the bullshit and tragedies that we've had, the Mike Brown situation is basically what kicked off the body cam thing and that turned out to be false. But in that the body cam situation came out and I thought that was a good thing that came from that. So I love having body cameras.
Speaker 2:Well with dash cams, too. When they had the cameras in the cars way before body cams, 90% of the complaints against police, charges of excessive force, et cetera, misconduct of some sort was filed against that officer. 90% of those cases were totally exonerated. The officer, the officer, was not conducting themselves in any way in misconduct. So we're seeing the same thing with body cameras. It shows they're doing their job professionally and honorably, 99% of the time. In fact, of the 53 million people that were interviewed or surveyed by the Department of Justice who had an interaction with law enforcement during I think it was 2022, of those 53 million people, 1% said there was any misconduct involved. In their view, that means 99%, literally. Of the people that had an interaction with a cop, it was professional, it was proper and everything was handled according to the law.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the things I like to point out to people. I cannot remember where I read this statistic. I think it was from the UCR. Is that what it's called Uniform Crime Report? Yeah, so I think it was from the ucr. Is that what it's called uniform crime report? Yes, I think it was ucr. I could be wrong on that.
Speaker 1:So anybody that tries to dox this like I apologize, but roughly. They said there's like 350 million calls for service each year and out of that I think it was less than one percent have a complaint from either a use of force or just a general complaint and of that, like 0.006% of them are founded in anything. So that tells me that with the advent of body cams coming out and using those and what I've talked to IA people and all that from the complaints that they're getting, the body cam squashes everything. So I highly encourage officers like stop, stop your bull crap with the body cams. Turn it on early and leave it on late. This okay. So this I'll give you a little insight. Craig, you may not know this. Body cams they're great, but they have their own technological um holds, holdbacks, like um, they can't last a whole shift, like if you were to turn it on and just leave it recording. I work 10 hour shifts where I'm at it would never make it. Um, you're lucky if you. I would say you'd be lucky if you got six continuous hours of a body cam that's been used Like a brand new one. Maybe that will last eight hours straight. I don't know too many officers that work at eight hour shift, but let's say they did theoretically.
Speaker 1:One you don't want officers to have their body cam on that long because they go to the bathroom, they talk to their wives, they go to talk to doctors and there's reasons that officers need to be able to turn their body cams off and on. So there's an argument that people want to make. Well, they should be recording the whole time. One technologically not feasible. Two you can't. You just can't, because if you're going to the hospital and you're conducting an interview there, there's HIPAA laws, there's all this stuff. They just can't do that stuff. Plus, not to mention, I got to go to the bathroom. I got to turn my camera off for that. You don't want to see that, I promise. If I'm having a private conversation with my family during my shift, which I'm allowed to do, despite some people's opinions. All these reasons the camera needs to be controlled. It's just going to make things the easiest turn it on and off. But with that I want to tell.
Speaker 1:The problem I've been having with officers is the general orders and the way that we typically use a body camera is like okay, I got dispatched to a call, cool, turn the camera on and you start going to your call and then when the investigation's over, you turn it off. You say an investigation, turning camera off, boom, okay, all too often we think we're done and we're not. So we've turned the camera off. Then all of a sudden like, hey, officer, before you go I got a question and now we got to turn the camera back on. And then the complaining parties significant other that they had a domestic with that left scene all of a sudden shows up and now the camera like.
Speaker 1:These things happen. And so I try to tell my officers I'm like just turn that thing on and leave it on until you're away from the scene, because turning it on, turning it off, it just optics, it looks bad. So just some inside view for you, craig, because you're around law enforcement so often. So when you talk to people about body cameras now you're like well, did you ever consider this? And then they're going to think you're a guru. I'm like how?
Speaker 2:the fuck does Craig know this? And a good tip from a veteran officer which we've been talking about. Right, we're losing too many of those good tips.
Speaker 1:Right, and I think the detriment to police work is supervisors. I think that sergeants make or break good departments and when you have shitty supervisors that don't take their role serious and are just filling a spot until they can either promote or retire or whatever it is, I think that's one of our biggest problems we have. I became a supervisor a year ago this month. I'm still what I would call a baby supervisor, but this was my goal. My goal was to become a sergeant and become the sergeant that I always wish I had, because I remember being on teams where you never saw your sergeant. I remember being on teams where your sergeant was just always pissed off. He was that guy always mad about everything you did, didn't want you to go out there and do any real proactive police work because it caused him to have to do work, or her. Actually, I think I've only ever had one female sergeant and she was awesome Debbie Holman, if you're hearing me. What's up, girl? She retired, I think.
Speaker 1:But yeah, man, I think that the sergeant is the. That's the crux of a department and if you are not taking that role serious and you're not out there shaping and molding and trying to push that experience on your guys. Damn, we're losing out on a lot in the weeds here, craig. But man, I get so upset with some of the supervisors that I see out there and I'm just like, man, you don't watch your guys. You're not out there leading by example, you're just filling a spot. You're the paperwork guy, you're the yes man, and that's the impression that these young officers that are out there are going to see. And that's where the cynicism, I think, starts. I think that's where the cynicism in police work comes from. But you tell me you see more cops than I do. Man, where are you seeing a lot of cynicism coming from?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I think it's so many cops are there for the right reasons, right, they care about people, they want to help people. I mean, how many times have you heard a cop say that's why they became a police officer? Yeah, every time they turn around they're being criticized, they're being investigated internally or by the public or by the media, and this just gets so demoralizing that it makes everyone question why they're doing what they're doing. I had a good friend of mine who I continue to work with today on Citizens Behind the Badge, but he was a 26-year veteran of the Miami-Dade Police Department and he led their tactical team. I mean, he was one of the true heroic cops in Miami area and he said you know, craig, I see so much bad stuff in this job, but every year in May I come up for National Police Week and it reminds me of why I do what I do.
Speaker 2:These are the best of the best people, the best of the best in the profession, that come to Washington every year during National Police Week. In May they gather at the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial. We have ceremonies to honor the fallen officers who died. All their surviving family members are there and these officers leave Washington every year in May, rejuvenated. They're reminded of why they became a law enforcement officer. They're reminded of how important their profession is to this country. I mean, my goodness, there's a national monument in Washington in their honor. It honors the fallen as well as those who continue to serve. And now we have a National Law Enforcement Museum to tell their story, to tell the proud history of law enforcement, going back to the 1600s, when we had a night watch.
Speaker 2:People would volunteer to kind of patrol their towns at night looking for fires or some sort of criminal behavior. And it's been going on now for 400 or more years. And this has been such a fabric of our country and yet it's so unappreciated by so many. And I think that gets to the officers. I think that's where the cynicism comes from. I think it comes from arresting a criminal one day and now, with the low cash or no cash bail policies, that same criminal is out on the street the very next day. I mean that officer risked their life to make that arrest and now that same criminal is going to be perhaps interacting with them the very next day and posing that danger all over again. I mean, how does that validate what they do if the criminal justice system says, well, let's give the criminals all the benefit of the doubt, let's bend over backwards for the criminals in this country and let's be more restrictive and tougher on the cops that are serving us.
Speaker 2:How many DAs in our country today have run on a platform for election saying we're not going to be tough on criminals, we're going to be tough on the police serving our community. We're going to go after police corruption and excessive force and misconduct? I mean, what does that say to the officers that go out every day, leave their family at home and put their lives at risk, knowing that one cop dies every 53 hours or so? Roughly roughly in this country. Right, there's a great risk. You could be injured.
Speaker 2:There are 57,000 assaults against police officers every year in this country. So that means there's a very good chance. If you're not killed, you're going to be injured or you're going to be assaulted. And every time you make an arrest, there's a risk. The unknown factor who is that person? I just pulled over in a car? And then you go through all that and then you make an arrest and you think you've done a good job keeping the community safe, and then the criminal justice system either slaps them on the wrist or doesn't do anything at all. It is very upsetting, very frustrating, and I can understand why a lot of cops are cynics at this point in time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, can you explain to people what?
Speaker 2:it is that National Police Week is. Yeah, national Police Week was signed into law by President John F Kennedy back in 1962. That was the first year we commemorated National Police Week and at that time there were state and local activities and ceremonies honoring those officers who died in the line of duty primarily, but also showing their appreciation for all the officers who served their communities. And nothing was really done nationally in Washington DC until 1982. And that's when the Fraternal Order of Police decided to hold the National Memorial Service.
Speaker 2:Peace Officers Memorial Day is May 15th every year in this country and that's the week of National Police Week. That includes May 15th first year ceremony and it kept growing over the years. There were no survivors of officers who died that year, even though that was the purpose of the ceremony to honor the fallen. And then others got involved, but the fraternal order of police and their FOP auxiliary took it on their own to continue to hold that ceremony each and every year since 1982.
Speaker 2:And I retired in 2018 and national police week and our candlelight vigil during that week the FOP Memorial Service each had more than 30,000 people gathered at those ceremonies. That's how much it had grown from 125 people the first year to 30,000 or more now. In fact, it grew so much that our candlelight vigil, which used to be held at the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial every year on May 13th, is now held on the National Mall in Washington DC, because the numbers just outgrew the space. And now those 30,000 or 40,000 people, those are officers from all over the country, some from other countries that come all the way to America to commemorate their brothers and sisters. And then you've got surviving family members, thousands of them family members of officers who died.
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Speaker 2:And then you have citizen supporters who come to show their appreciation. It's an amazing sight to see. Any officer listening to this podcast should know that, if they haven't already done so, they need to come to Washington DC during National Police Week. It's always the week that includes May 15th and I assure them that they will be rejuvenated. They will be reminded of how much they are appreciated and what a valuable profession they are serving and what footsteps they're following All those who've died in the line of duty over 24,000 officers killed in the line of duty in our nation's history. These officers serving today are now following in their footsteps of law enforcement service and that's a proud honor and a privilege really for all those men and women. Like yourself, eric, I have never been to National Police Week. No, we need to get you there. I promise you you will come back, and even if you come just once, it's worth the spectacle of America saying thank you to the men and women in law enforcement. It's all about you that week.
Speaker 2:I've seen it from 1982. I was working with Congressman Biagi and I remember that first ceremony they didn't have an American flag. So I got a phone call from one of the organizers and she said, craig, could we borrow the flag the American flag that sits in Congressman Biagi's office, so we can have a flag on the stage at our ceremony? But it's come a long way since then. Now the president of the United States almost always speaks at the May 15th service, and that candlelight vigil on May 13th at the Memorial Fund holds is a sight to behold. Can you imagine 30,000 or more people holding candles aloft on the National Mall with the Washington Monument behind them and the US Capitol in front of them? It is a sight to see and it's a great tribute to the men and women in law enforcement, especially those who've made the ultimate sacrifice.
Speaker 1:No, I have been meaning to go the last. I'd say four or five years. It hasn't been in the cards. You know how life goes. It hasn't been in the cards for me.
Speaker 2:You've got time. It's not going anywhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not going anywhere. I have been a part. In Texas we have a memorial ride, a bicycle ride, and it's roughly 150 miles over two days and it's intentionally slow. It's weird to say unless you're a cyclist, I'm a cyclist, I like to ride. Unless you're a cyclist, I'm a cyclist, I like to ride. Um, unless you're a cyclist, you don't really understand what I mean. But it's like eight hours in the saddle over two days. That's a lot of riding. Normally on a hundred mile ride. That's an actual I will air quotes race. Even for the dad bods out there that are riding around like four or five hours is is the the normal length of time it would take to ride 100 miles for any of these bike races that are out there. Well, the memorial ride is intentional in its slow pace because, as much as you're suffering in being sore, not thinking you're going to keep be able to keep pedaling, it's a small sacrifice that you're making in comparison to the family of the fallen officer that you're riding for. And so I've been a part of that over the course, I think, of four or five years, and then I went from that to where I was in a different position in policing where I couldn't ride like I like to. So I switched organizations. Now I'm a part of the Brotherhood for the Fallen. Have you ever heard of them? I don't believe I have.
Speaker 1:Okay, so the Brotherhood for the Fallen they started out of Chicago, chicago PD, and the premise was that anytime an officer falls violently in the line of duty, the Brotherhood for the Fallen. They have chapters, so we have one here where I'm at. Dallas has one, chicago has one. Nypd Suffolk, they're all over now. They're bumping everywhere and you put money into this, every paycheck for all the people that go, and we'll always send up to, I think, at a minimum, two representatives from the Brotherhood for the Fallen and we'll go to where the officer's funeral is at and we present a $2,500 check to the family so they have immediate funds available. It's not the most money in the world, but anybody that's dealt with, an officer that's fallen on the line of duty, insurance takes a while and you've got costs that happen right then and there. So the Brotherhood for the Fallen, the whole premise is when your officer is killed violently on the line of duty, we come out, we present some monetary donation and our services, whatever you need. You need us to go to the airport, to go pick up family and run them back and forth. We'll do that, whatever it is you need. So it's a really cool organization.
Speaker 1:If you haven't heard of it, craig, when we get offline here definitely something that you'd probably be interested in knowing about. Yes, because we're trying to get those chapters. The goal is if you could be in every state, at every department, then when an officer falls, that family will never have to worry at all about anything Food, transport, money for the funeral, whatever it is. That's the idea, that's the goal. That's the goal at the end of the day is to make it so you don't have to worry.
Speaker 1:And we're pros, like any of these chapters. We're so used to. The unfortunately sucks to say that, but we know how it goes now and um, when we deploy, we call it a deployment. You know we, we tend to, like me, I'm from michigan originally, so if there's an officer that falls in Michigan, like guarantee me being in Texas, I'm going to be one of the guys that volunteers to go. Or I'm asked to go and the, the, the chapter sends you. They pay for that officer to fly out and and rent a car and stay in a hotel and all that stuff. So it's just, it's a really cool organization to be a part of.
Speaker 2:So I love that. If people haven't ever been to a police funeral, that's a whole nother amazing scene of support and appreciation. And to watch the hearse drive down the road with citizens pulled over on the side with their hand over their hearts young kids this is the one time and this upsets me, similar to that 9-11 story. I told earlier about everybody loving cops. At that moment in time, I think everybody loves a cop. When a cop in their community dies in the line of duty, all of a sudden, everybody's a cop lover. A cop in their community dies in the line of duty, all of a sudden, everybody's a cop lover. And as well they should be.
Speaker 2:And it's good to see it being shown in such a visible way. At those times of family, it means a lot. But I tell you, too often you know, unless that cop dies in your community, you don't think about them in that way and you don't show that support. And that upsets me, because I've been to many police funerals and I will tell you that there are a lot of good people in every community. We have a thing called Heroes Incorporated and there's 100 clubs around the country. These are private clubs, business people who have donated money so that if ever a police officer, a firefighter or any first responder dies in the line of duty, they step forward with monetary donations, financial advice to the family that's left behind, et cetera. And it's very similar to what you're describing with the brotherhood, that there are a lot of people that do step up at that time of need and and it's a wonderful thing to see.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, it's, it is. It's a great experience when we get offline here. If you're ever interested in just learning more and wanting to know more about the brotherhood stuff, like I'll get you. I'll get you hooked up. I'm a I'm a board member for our chapter and I'll I'll tell you all about that.
Speaker 2:I would love to, eric, if I might just share one story you've reminded me of, related to a police funeral. I used to do a radio show and at the end of the show I would usually interview a survivor of a fallen officer. And this one interview I did this is many years ago, but I asked the surviving spouse. I said what do you remember about the police funeral for your husband? And she said Craig, it was a blur that day. I remember very little about the ceremony or what happened around me, she said, but I remember one moment. She said this homeless man came up to her at the church and he introduced himself and he said you don't know me, but I'm here to pay my respects to your husband, because you probably don't even know this, but every night before your husband went home to you and the kids, he stopped to check on me and he gave me a blanket in the winter. He made sure I had a few dollars. He made sure I had a meal. He just watched out for me. I'm here to pay my respects and to say thank you. That woman said Craig. What was most amazing to me about that story is my husband never once mentioned what he did for that homeless man.
Speaker 2:I'm sure, eric, you have many of those same kind of stories. Every cop I know does reaches out, has such a big heart. They want to help people in need. Fucker, you made me cry, right? I mean, this is happening behind the scenes, when no cameras are looking or running, and cops are doing these good deeds every day, and yet they do it because that's what they want to do. You know they want to help people. So come on, citizens of this country, let's show our support and appreciation. Stop being so quick to condemn and defund, yeah.
Speaker 1:Damn you. I hate that You're good.
Speaker 2:I'll never forget that story, though that woman, what a great story that was.
Speaker 1:It epitomized what law enforcement means to this country of ours that was it epitomized what law enforcement means to this country of ours. Yep, it does. It happens, man. It just in my own experience, you know there's there's so many times, and we're living in a generation of body cameras and, um, I'm, uh, I just hit my mic, sorry. Um, um, you know it, and this is God. This without this is what sucks. Like you remind me of a story, and it's my own story, so it's going to sound like I'm. I'm not trying to brag or do anything like that, but like it happens so often in law enforcement, I have a routine.
Speaker 1:I stop at seven 11, prior to shift. I have a take-home car, so I fill my gas tank up, I grab my energy drink and you know I really love liquid death, by the way, which is like carbonated water, so I get a couple cans of liquid death. So this is my routine every day Go to a stop at 7-Eleven, fill up the gas tank, and so you do. You start to see the same homeless people and whatever. Well, recently there's a new guy that showed up there and he's big, he's intimidating looking, he doesn't have shoes and people were calling on him without me knowing. I don't log into the computer until I'm at work. So I go up there and the 7-Eleven clerk's like, hey, there's been some complaints about that guy out there. So it's like I went up there and the 7-Eleven clerk's like, hey, there's been some complaints about that guy out there. So it's like I went out there real quick. I was like hey brother, I was like what's going on? I was like I don't recognize you and he's just, he's not talking, he's being quiet. I said, hey, you're not in any trouble, man, I'm just. I was like I see, you don't have shoes. I was like, if you need to get some shoes or whatever, like tell me what you need, let me, let me try to help you out with the resources I know that I got. I was like I was like, cause people are calling and I don't, you're not doing anything. I said that to him. I was like you're not doing anything. I was like I saw I'm trying to help you out and he, all he said was I'm thirsty. I said, okay. So I went inside, grabbed him some water, grabbed him a Gatorade, just in case his electrolytes were low, and that was it. Well, a couple days later, I'm doing the same routine.
Speaker 1:Come in, I see him out there, I didn't even think about it, just grabbed him water, grabbed him a Gatorade. I was already buying stuff. It's not like you're killing my paycheck with a water and a Gatorade, so got him that again. Like you're killing my paycheck with a water and a Gatorade, so got him that again. And uh, the clerk told me since I had been doing and again he's very nonverbal, he doesn't talk much Um, but the clerk said, since I've been doing that, like his demeanor, the way he carries himself, the way, uh, he hangs around the joint has nobody's calling anymore. She's like, so she's like you're getting through to him whatever you're calling anymore. She's like, so she's like you're getting through to them whatever you're doing. She's like it's really cool and we appreciate it.
Speaker 1:I said, okay, well, but that's not a call. My body cam never gets turned on because I ain't on duty yet. So, um, it does. It happens every day. So many different officers. That's just my personal example. But I've watched my officers change tires, go buy In-N-Out burgers or Waterburgers. We're in Texas, so Waterburgers or whatever for anybody, it doesn't have to even be. I've seen them go buy food for people that were just so drunk and they just needed to get some food in their system and wait for an Uber and they just sit there with them hey, man, let me get you water, let me get you something to eat, let me, let me wait for you while you get an uber.
Speaker 1:So when you bring up stories like that, I mean I get, I get emotional because that's why I got into this. I like I love that stuff and it's your, it's your husband's funeral and that's what stood out to you. Yeah, it's amazing, it's a great story. It speaks to the heart of first responders and obviously we're focused on law enforcement. But firefighters, ems I've got great stories for all of those guys. You know hose draggers as much shit as I give you. I love you guys. Like, they do great work. They deal with a lot of bullshit. You know I try to tell people that a firefighter's main job fighting fires is medical stuff. You just don't realize and a lot of it has to do with homeless. So firefighters are a great resource too.
Speaker 1:So now in the national I'm sorry, the law enforcement week we were talking about brings me to the topic and I'm going to try to make this a clip. So don't let me forget. I'm going to bring up and share the Citizens Behind the Badge website, and the website is called behindbadgeorg, so it's spelled just like it sounds behindbadgeorg. So if you're listening to this, make sure you check that out. I'm actually pulling it up on the screen right now, if I can figure out how to share. Okay, there we go, share this screen and we are going to go to our view here. Look at that. I like that view. So, craig, we're on behind badgeorg, let's talk about it.
Speaker 2:What's this for the homepage? We've redone it recently. It looks great. Our guy did a great job with that, drew Goldsack, and it explains who we are first of all, and that's a great photograph that talks of, you know, talks about what we've been talking about, which, you know cops helping people in need. It's not about all these arrests they make and, you know, having to use force every once in a while less than 2% of the time, by the way but it's officers helping Just a little stat for y'all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and, by the way, the scroll that you see there is. It talks about all those facts. We put as many factoids there as we could that tell you the realities of law enforcement. You know, not only you know the sacrifices and and the service, but trying to counter all the media lies, all the critics lies about law enforcement, and it does say, for example, that of the 53 million or so contacts that law enforcement had with citizens in 2022, numbers aren't out for 2023 yet force is used by law enforcement officers less than 2% of the time.
Speaker 2:It hardly ever happens. They make about 10 million arrests every year. They're assaulted 57,000 times. All those facts are there, but when you think about that, it's amazing to me how few times officers ever use force of any kind, let alone fatal force, so lethal force. So here below that, after you've finished looking at those scrolls and I could sit there forever and look at those scrolling facts because they really I love it and then you see on the left there we have some of our latest. We call it our newsroom, which is our podcast. We do our press releases, our op-ed that we get placed in conventional media.
Speaker 1:They're on the right. By the way, Do you guys have a podcast? We get placed in conventional media.
Speaker 2:They're on the right. By the way, you guys have a podcast we do it's not really what you do, eric, it's called Heroes Live Forever. Okay, and I do this it's kind of a takeoff from what I did at the Memorial Fund, which is Honor Fallen Officers. So for about five minutes or so, I do a brief narrative about that officer, their life and their death. So people remember who they were and how they died and how they lived. So that's on there, you see the Heroes Live Forever podcast.
Speaker 1:So I got a question. I got a question. I'm updating my website right now, but I just had an idea and I didn't want to lose it while we're thinking about it. Sure, I'd be proud and privileged. Yeah, okay, cool, let's do it. I'll get that working with my cousin. That's what he does for a living. He does computer stuff, but he does it on a grand scale for, like, major companies and stuff. So he's graciously like put me on his back burner to update my website for free. So I don't pressure him, but every once in a while I'm just like hey, for my website, could you do this for me real quick?
Speaker 2:he's like it's tough. I mean, people do a good job, but it takes them a while to get it done. That, by the way, on the right, I love that S-Res 218. Way before JD Vance was ever selected to be the vice presidential candidate that he is today One of his first acts in office in 2023, he became a United States Senator from Ohio and his chief of staff called me up.
Speaker 2:He heard about Citizens Behind the Badge and he said we love what you're doing. Anything we can do to help support you, let me know. I immediately called him up. We set up a meeting and, next thing I know, I drafted a resolution of support for law enforcement and it also condemned the defund and defame the police movement. It's two or three pages of good stuff about what law enforcement and it also condemned the defund and defame the police movement. And it's two or three pages of good stuff about what law enforcement means and does for this country.
Speaker 2:And JD Vance introduced it and we're so proud that we have this relationship with him. He's such a staunch supporter of law enforcement and nobody else in the Senate had introduced a resolution of support for law enforcement. That was the one thing he said. We'll do it unless another senator has already done it. We don't want to usurp their privilege, but when he found out no other senator had introduced a resolution of support for law enforcement, he did it. We've had continuing communication with his office and they could not be more supportive of law enforcement. So just FYI, if you're ever wondering about JD Vance and his support level for law enforcement, there it is.
Speaker 1:I didn't know that that's how uninvolved in politics I really am. Well, it's not a bad thing. Any time I did kind of get political and start getting into it, I just found myself just drained, just negatively drained. I have to deal with so much shit as a cop as it is, and you're fighting internally against your own officers against negativity. It's draining. I am an optimist and it's very rare in law enforcement. I am an optimist and it's very rare in law enforcement. And when I come into work and I get people to tell me what's going on or they're bitching about something and I'm just like, well, look at it this way, look at it that way. And then on top of that, now that you get the politics involved and I'm military still, I'm still in the Air Force. So I try to. I'm a cop in the Air Force as well. You might not know this, craig, but that's the whole. That's where the name came from. That's the two cops, one donut. I am two different type of cop. I did not know that.
Speaker 2:I was waiting for the other cop to come on.
Speaker 1:Now I'm a military cop Air Force Security Forces and I am a municipal cop, city cop.
Speaker 2:So that's where the name comes from.
Speaker 1:But I am expanding. I've got Banning Sweatland, which is the coolest name ever. That's his real name, Banning Sweatland. He's a deputy in Texas, so he's joined the Two Cops One Donut. And then I've got Trey Mosley, who's a California cop that I'm bringing on board. So we're trying to expand. We're trying to get more people that have the same mindset, education and talking and just getting perspective out there. So we're growing.
Speaker 2:I love it. By the way, while we're on that subject, I know the reason you started this podcast was to build bridges to strengthen the relationship between law enforcement and the community, and I applaud you for that, because that was really a catalyst all the amazing community policing programs that were underway throughout America, and it was incredible to me. I think most people would be unaware that law enforcement is just doing so much to build that relationship with the citizens they serve. And there was one quote that I wanted to mention to you that we made sure was on the wall of that museum when it opened and it was by a chief from Charleston, south Carolina, and he said there is not a department in this country that cannot do better. And I just love that quote so much because to me again, that epitomized what was really going on at agencies across America long before George Floyd died and long before everybody thought we needed to have all these reforms to get better.
Speaker 2:And they're doing it today. They will never stop and that's why they were so good in 2019. And that's why crime was at such a low level. And if we would just let that philosophy to continue and applaud it and support it with money and other resources, this country would be in the best shape it's ever been. But that police chief I just love what he did. His name was Luther Reynolds. Unfortunately he died a couple of years ago from cancer. But man, did he say it that every department in this country knows they can do better and they're trying to do better. We just got to give them the support and the resources to make it happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had a question, is your? Yeah, I had a question, is your? I'm sorry, I'm blanking on his name, baggio. How did you say his name?
Speaker 2:Mario Biaggi.
Speaker 1:Biaggi. Okay, is he still alive.
Speaker 2:No, he died several years ago at the age of 97. So I mean, he lived a long time. He got to see the museum open and I was so proud of that. He was so proud of that and, yeah, he came to every candlelight vigil until the age of 90. And that was his last candlelight vigil. He was able to come down from New York for that one. And then he lived another seven years and called me often and just was so proud of that memorial and what it had become and the fact that we were going to be opening a museum across the street. It just meant the world to him and I'm so proud that we were able to achieve it on his behalf.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was just curious. I was like damn, I know he's been around for a long time, so I'm curious if he's still Good man. Great service, great career. How long did he serve, Do you remember?
Speaker 2:Well, he was 23 years in the New York City Police Department, retired at the lieutenant detective level, and that was in 1965 when he retired. Then he was elected to Congress in 1968 and served for 20 years. He left office in 1988, which is the year I also left to be the head of the Memorial Fund full-time Interesting story there, by the way, Quickie. We were struggling the first two years after Congress passed the law to establish a national memorial. We were treading water. We had, I think, raised $40,000. We had no staff, no office, so we were doing it all on a volunteer basis out of the congressman's office to some degree. That's where I was working full time.
Speaker 2:And a guy on our board said why don't you call a guy named Jan Scruggs who had built the Vietnam Veterans Memorial? And I had never met Jan but certainly knew of him because of that great achievement he had made, and he couldn't have been nicer. He agreed to have lunch with me and he laid out the plan. He said here's what you got to do, Craig. You got to be doing this full time. You need a staff, you need an office. You can't be relying on volunteers to get this job done.
Speaker 2:And around that same time, we started a direct mail campaign where we sent letters to people all over America asking them to contribute to this national memorial that we wanted to build, and over a million citizens donated money. Jan's Grugs gave us the blueprint for it and I couldn't be more appreciative of what Jan did and what those million Americans did. Most of them gave an average gift of $12. Yeah, that memorial cost $11 million to build and we were able to raise it through small gifts from a lot of people and it really showed. I always called it a gift of appreciation from a caring American public Wow, Good stuff. I always called it a gift of appreciation from a caring American public Wow.
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Speaker 1:If your community is looking to invest in LPR technology, reach out to one of their experts today. Or reach out to me. Tell them Two Cops One Donut sent you out to one of their experts today. Or reach out to me. Tell them two cops, one donut sent you. So I'm trying to think Now, today, with what you're doing, what's the next law enforcement goal for you?
Speaker 2:What are you trying to accomplish? We're having a series of strategic planning meetings, and we did this at the Memorial Fund back in 1998. You know, here we had this great memorial, we had National Police Week. We were basically doing the job with just a handful of people, five of us on staff full time, and so we decided to have a strategic planning session with a facilitator, a professor from James or George Mason University, with a facilitator, a professor from George Mason University. He explained to me that, without big, hairy, audacious goals for the future I love that saying.
Speaker 2:I've never heard that Big hairy, audacious goals BHAGs we call them. I live by that. Once I heard that philosophy, I said that should be everybody's philosophy for life, in personal and professionally. We thought about what is it the big, hairy, audacious goals that we could have as an organization that would be consistent with our mission, and one of those goals was to build the National Law Enforcement Museum. So that's how the museum came about. Now, for citizens behind the badge, we're going through that same process. What are our big, hairy, audacious goals?
Speaker 2:Our initial goal and mission was to stop the defund and defame the police movement. All right, now a lot of people would say, oh, that's accomplished, we've done that. I would argue harshly that that's not the case, that there are still many, many cases, especially with the illegal immigrants coming into this country. It's taken resources away from law enforcement and public safety and it's going to support these illegal immigrants that are inundating every country, every city and town in this country. So that's an example of how defund is continuing. And then there's, of course, the fact that we've lost 5% of our officers across this country. So that means there's less money going to pay law enforcement officers, because that was an unintended or an indirect defund, I guess you would call it.
Speaker 1:I want to cut you off real quick and just so people understand. There's less than a million cops in this country. I think the last numbers I heard was like 780,000. That was an approximate. That's how many cops are in the nation right now. I don't know, craig, you sound like you're a numbers guy dude. You got numbers off the top of your head for everything. So you tell me I don't know. That's the last number I heard was in the seven. Almost 800,000 cops are left in the nation.
Speaker 2:Right, and it's a little over 800,000. At least that's what it was before defund and defame. It might be a little bit below that number. Now to your point. Maybe 70, 80 might be a better figure, but the point is okay, let's assume defund and defame is not.
Speaker 2:What we're saying now is our goal is to counter and reverse the troubling consequences that have occurred as a result of defund and defame. You know, fewer cops. Nobody wants to be a cop. We need to work on recruitment. We need to have tougher enforcement of current laws. So many DAs in this country now are not enforcing a lot of the laws and not prosecuting criminals for lesser crimes, for example. So all of that continues to be a big part of our mission moving forward.
Speaker 2:But what is it we can do? One vision I have is when you drive on the highways across this country, I see all these billboards and they're touting this, touting that political whatever. Wouldn't it be nice to see some of them saying, hey, we love our police officers, we support our men and women in law enforcement, something along those lines. I want to see more visible expressions of appreciation for law enforcement in this country. There are a lot of groups like the Brotherhood that you mentioned earlier, that are providing benefits to surviving family members of officers killed in the line of duty. Is that something we could enhance? How about students visiting the National Law Enforcement Museum and Memorial in Washington DC? That costs money, but we believe that's a big recruiting tool that we now have at our disposal. If school kids could go to that museum and go to that memorial and see how much we value law enforcement and see what a neat profession it is, how you help people, all the tools of the profession, technology, etc. I think we could get a lot of young people thinking about a career in law enforcement.
Speaker 2:So these are just some examples. You know, also, politically, as I mentioned, we're very involved in lobbying Congress, lobbying state and local legislators to express support for law enforcement, to pass tough penalties for criminals, especially tougher penalties for those who assault or kill a police officer. I mean, we're very involved in pushing for those types of initiatives and we're going to continue to do that. So what other initiatives does law enforcement need help with? We want to rally the citizens of this country around those issues because there's plenty, as you know, plenty of police groups that are already doing that the International Association of Chiefs of Police, national Sheriff's Association, fraternal Order of Police, you go on and on. But the point is, we want to mobilize the citizens to rally around what's going to help police, what's going to get them the resources, the respect they need to keep America safe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when you're talking about recruiting with the museum and stuff like that, one of the I don't know if I stole that. Maybe I did steal this. I heard this somewhere. I didn't make it up, that's for sure. But I love the saying of be the change you want to see. And that is how I try to combat the young, outspoken anti-police movement, because I get it. I get every video I put out. I could put out a pro-cop video. I could put out a bad cop video, it doesn't matter what I put out. There's always somebody that jumps on. They're like well, yeah, that's just how policing are. There's the troll, if you will. And I try to tell them I'm like well, what are you doing to fix it? And I've put this out there many times. I've dropped 50 grand over the course of four years of my own money on a podcast that doesn't make me money, because I love what I do and this is what I like to do and I'm trying to make things better. And I saw a gap and cops weren't filling that gap. So here I am trying to put an idea that I had to try to fill that gap. But you need to become the change you want to see, and that's the saying that I really like. I think that's very important. You can either bitch about it from the sidelines or you can do something about it. What better place to do something about it than become a cop? Yeah, start changing it from within. Do your own thing, whatever you think needs to be done.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of people that actually pull that trigger no pun intended that do come into police work because they're going to reform it, they want to change it. I think they get into this career field and they're like I was way wrong. Matter of fact, I know a guy. He joined up at the age limit, I think at like 45. And that was his thing. He's like I'm joining, and he was like a public figure, had his own radio show, everything. And you know, I don't want to say he was anti-cop, I don't think he was anti-cop, but I do think he had an idea of what police work was and he wanted to come in and make it what he thought it should be. And then when he got here, he's like damn, I was way wrong. And that's cool to see.
Speaker 1:But what I would love for young people to do, if you can even get them to go to the museum, whatever it is. I challenge you, become the change you want to see. Come do it For me. Change you want to see, come do it For me. It's a career. But if it's not going to be a career for you, at least come experience it. Whether that's a ride-in, I think that opens a lot of eyes. Ride-ins in itself open a lot of eyes. That's my challenge to anybody that's anti-law enforcement. Just come do a ride-out with me, I will. I promise you we will have a much better discussion than we will ever have, whether it's over the phone, through the internet, in person, whatever it is. I need you to come see the job firsthand, because you cannot speak about a job. You can't speak about anything. I mean even you, craig, you could have never done what you've done if you hadn't gone out and seen and talked to and felt what police works like. How many ride outs have you done? A?
Speaker 2:dozen or more. I was going to say I'm sure you've done A lot of fun too. Some of them have been scary, I must say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to say I'm sure you've done a shitload of ride-outs just because of your connections. I bet every state you go to you've got at least three or four officers like come ride out with me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been great that way. You know you telling that message. I think that's so important because I remember when five police officers were assassinated in Dallas, texas, you know, several years ago, but it was at an anti-police protest and these five officers were killed by a guy that just hated cops and wanted to kill cops. And afterwards, david Brown, who at the time was the Dallas police chief, and he publicly said and I'll never forget his statement, it was very much along the lines of what you just said which is, you know, all those protesters, put down your signs and raise your hand and volunteer to become a Dallas police officer. And he said I'll tell you what I'll do Once you go through training and are ready to patrol, I'll put you in the neighborhoods that you grew up in and you'll be the police in your own neighborhoods and communities. And I just love that message and it really puts an exclamation point on what you just said. I mean, you know, put down your signs. You know, if you want to make change, then be a part of it.
Speaker 2:You know, and law enforcement offers so many rewards. I mean whether it's just the personal satisfaction of helping people in need. Starting salaries today are not bad and there's a lot of financial incentives being offered today, especially for new recruits. It's a great profession. We talk about how many cops die and are assaulted, et cetera. The fact of the matter is, you know, the vast majority of police will probably never fire their weapon in the line of duty, will maybe never be injured, or certainly not killed in the line of duty. So there are great benefits. You get to retire. Maybe it's a little longer than it used to be, but still you get a decent retirement and it's not a bad job at all.
Speaker 2:So hey, come on and join this profession. Don't listen to the media, don't listen to the naysayers, the critics that hate police and that are always critical of them without real knowledge and join this profession. It's an amazing profession. I'm too old now, unfortunately. I don't know that I had the guts to be a good cop either. I want to be an advocate for law enforcement. We need them, baby. We need them. It's tough. Join up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's funny you mentioned the Dow shooting, because I was a cop very close to that area and my family did a GoFundMe and got me body armor. Wow, they were so nervous for me. Um, so I got this body armor and, uh, you know, it was a reaction. It's just is what it is. And, um, that police chief that you're talking about, I remember him.
Speaker 1:Um, he was not well liked at the time by patrol guys, from what I remember, but his response to that guy, I think, flipped the switch, that everybody loved him after that Because he was definitely a trendsetter when it came to how we use robotics and cell phones and all that stuff. I'd never heard of such a thing. And don't get me wrong, yeah, I fully support what he did and when he did it, I thought it was great, but I don't think that'll ever happen again in the near future. I think that nobody ever heard of anything like that, so I thought it was amazing. But, yeah, you're right, when it came down to that, it's just crazy to me. You get the anti-police protesting and you've got police there trying to protect you while you're protesting them. How ironic, huh? What are the odds?
Speaker 2:There was a great story that comes to mind that you remind me. Wesley Brown was the officer's name. He grew up in a very tough section of Maryland, right outside Washington DC, and he was shot growing up. He was stabbed growing up and he was one of the good guys. I mean, he was a kid that wanted to stay on the right path. He went to church regularly, had a lot of mentors, but I mean, the community he lived in the neighborhood was just a mess and and filled with crime and violence and he couldn't escape it. But he, you know, when he turned I think it was 20, 21, he decided I want to do something to get my community safer and help other kids. I'm going to become a Maryland state trooper. So Wesley Brown became a Maryland state trooper. He was a trooper for about four years and he mentored young children, teenagers, and it was like I think it was called Young Men Mentoring Younger Men and it turned a lot of these kids' lives around. I met a lot of them.
Speaker 2:After his death he was working off-duty security at a local restaurant to save money for his nonprofit the mentoring group drunken patron. He had to escort him out of the restaurant and off the premises, and the guy came back moments later with a gun and shot and killed Wesley Brown in cowardly fashion, and I'll just never forget, though it's exactly the kind of story we're talking about. It's somebody that grows up in a tough part of that city or town and that could choose two paths. One would be either death or prison, which a lot of Wesley's friends ended up following, or you could go the law enforcement route and actually make a difference in your community and make it better, because you know how bad it was. Yeah, and some of the best cops I know are people like Wesley Brown that grew up in a tough part of their community and decided they wanted to do something to make it better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I grew up in Flint, michigan, so I'm kind of along that lines that story. I grew, I was born in Flint, raised around Flint, but I lived in a little suburb just outside of it called Mount Morris, but you know how it is. You're right next to the hood, you go out with your friends and do all that stuff and you're going to Flint to go do anything. So it just is what it is. But yeah, I didn't like cops. I didn't growing up, even though my dad was a cop in Texas. I called my dad when I'd have some issues and like I fucking hate cops, like they're so bad. Here. One cop popped my basketball I've told this story a few times on the podcast and he's like I told you guys not to play basketball on the streets and I'm like he never talked to me personally ever.
Speaker 1:And he's like I told you guys not to play basketball on the streets and I'm like he never talked to me personally ever and he had pretended like he was going to play basketball with us and then when we threw him the basketball, he stabbed it, stabbed the ball.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the kind of cops we don't need yeah.
Speaker 1:But I think it's important to as much like we've talked very heavily on advocacy for cops and that's important and I think that's great. But it also takes us as police to acknowledge the cancers that we do get. It does happen, it happens in every job and you're going to get some bad seeds here and there. And I think it just makes the public trust us more when we're willing and open and I'm like yeah, that cop fucked up or that's a bad cop. And that's kind of the line that I try to play with the podcast is like listen, there's a lot of cops doing a lot of great things, here's some cops doing some bad things, here's some cops that just screwed up. And you guys need to have some grace. Like you know, especially like with the First Amendment orders, I was like what you see is a corrupt tyrant and I hate that term. That ain't a corrupt tyrant, that's just a poorly trained officer. That's all I see. Is that fixable? Yeah, let's fix it. Give you some days off, take your slap on the wrist that's what happens. Hurt the wallet, maybe a little bit, a couple days, but that's not a bad officer. This officer was trained bad. Let's fix that. So that's kind of the line that I play with this podcast.
Speaker 1:I get hate from both sides. I get hate from cops. They're like oh, you shouldn't be Monday morning quarterbacking cops, you shouldn't be doing this, you shouldn't be doing that. I'm like you know what. I think it's important for the public to see us at least own mistakes and not try to make excuses, and I think that's part of the trust that we need to build with them. Again is like, hey, we're not trying to cover this up, but I also need you to be fair and objective and reasonable on this. When I tell you that cop was poorly trained, here's how we'd fix it and it's okay. It doesn't mean we need to cancel and fire every cop every time they make a mistake, because if you do that, you're not going to have any cops. And we talked about qualified immunity and we talked about some of the other stuff that causes problems. If you want to do that, if you want to go down that route of firing every single person, this profession is going to go extinct because you're not going to get what you want. So we got to start somewhere, got to have conversations on both sides of the fence. We got to start somewhere Got to have conversations on both sides of the fence.
Speaker 1:Officers need to be willing, like me, to admit when we screw up and how we can fix it, or you need to explain like that officer's not screwing up, you don't see it from our side, which is okay. You don't have to, but here's why. Here's why you see an officer running a red light, turning his lights on to get through it but then turning them back off. He ain't running that light just because he wants to, just to get through it. He's there 8, 10, 12 hours a day. He doesn't give a shit. I promise you there's nothing. He's in a hurry to get to, just to turn those lights on. He's got a call. He just to turn those lights on. He's got to call, he's got to get there, but he's not justified in running lights and sirens, so he's getting there as quickly as he can, the best way he knows how.
Speaker 1:So it's the insights and stuff that we got to explain. And it's really cool, craig, for a guy like you who didn't wear the badge but has such a unique insight, and that's why I like having guys like you on here, because you're able to look at it in a different way that cops just can't. We are in a fishbowl, we have a bias and you've got the luxury of fuckers. I'm not a cop. This is what I see, and that speaks a lot louder in a lot of things, than if I come and say the same exact thing. You say Like, hey, we need to have a police memorial, we need to have a museum, we need to have these things. Well, of course, you'd think that You're a cop, craig's not. So I thank you very much. I really appreciate you advocating on behalf of us and never having put on the uniform like that. You don't get that very often, man, and for as many years as you. How many years have you been doing it?
Speaker 2:I started with Congressman Biagi in 1978. And so since then till now. So what is?
Speaker 2:that Longer than I've been alive 46 years and it's gotten stronger every year.
Speaker 2:I get more upset every time I hear of the critics sounding off without any factual basis. The fact that they take one incident and try to make that with a broad brush and show cops are bad people doing bad things. It just is more upsetting to me today than ever. You know, I met so many of the families of the fallen officers whose names are on that memorial and I just put myself in their shoes when I hear these critics and these knee-jerk politicians who criticize police with no basis and I just wonder how much that hurts the family that officer who sacrificed his or her life for the safety of their community and now law enforcement is being bashed. It just it's very upsetting and I think we've come a long way in trying to turn things around. But unfortunately, 2020, george Floyd's death changed everything for the worse. Death changed everything for the worse and now we've got to try to get it back. You know, try to get that 9-11 supportive law enforcement feeling going again without having 72 officers dying to make it happen.
Speaker 2:So we're going to keep at it. You know I'm proud of what I get to do. I think my experience is unique, but that's why we built that museum, so that others could share in that experience, and that's why I continue to tell these stories through Citizens Behind the Badge, so other citizens will have the kind of appreciation that I do. I love it, man.
Speaker 1:For those wanting to become a part and want to help. How can they find you? What do you recommend they do?
Speaker 2:I'd like them to go to our website. You showed part of it. There's so much information on there. We honor the heroes of law enforcement in one section, those that maybe didn't die in the line of duty but did amazing things. We have a tribute section to the fallen officers. We tell their stories, but we have all the troubling consequences of the defund and defame the fallen officers. We tell their stories, but we have all the troubling consequences of the defund and defame the police movement. We have crime stats and policing stats that nobody else gets to hear through the media. That will educate people about all the great things law enforcement is doing and how well they're doing their job. And we also have all the reforms, all the ways law enforcement is working to get better, and that's so important.
Speaker 2:So go to our website. There's on the homepage. If you scroll down to the bottom, you'll see a place where you can leave your name and email address and stay in touch with us and we'll continue to communicate with you on a regular basis. Let you know how you might be able to help with a particular initiative, whether it be legislation or some other support activity we're working on at the time and that's the best place to go. Go to our website that's behindbadgeorg, behindbadgeorg, and scroll down on the homepage to the stay in touch section. And scroll down on the homepage to the Stay in Touch section and it'll walk you through it.
Speaker 1:I love it, man. I love it Again for those listening. I plan to add the podcast, because they do five-minute-ish synopsis for any officers that are fallen in the line of duty. I would love for that to be a part of our page. I do not have the time myself to even fathom doing something like that, and I love the fact that there's somebody out there doing that. So not, I am not trying to take credit for it at all. I just want to get the message out there, because it's a great message. I love it, I think. I think anytime we can honor the fallen in any way is great. So my page is here to help, so we'll get you guys the stuff out there. But other than that, sir, is there anything else that we haven't hit? We're coming up on about two hours that we've been bullshitting back and forth.
Speaker 2:It's been a pleasure. I mean, I just very seldom, as you know, with media you don't get a chance to talk to anybody for two hours. Usually it's a soundbite or two in a 30 second, one minute interview. But there's so much people need to know about law enforcement and I feel like I have a lot of those stories, a lot of those facts and figures and I love to be able to share it with people that care, especially the law enforcement community. But, as you pointed out, I read an article about your podcast. You want to reach people that maybe are the critics, maybe the naysayers, people that doubt police, and let's get our message out to them and maybe they'll change their tune a little bit. We hope so, and that's the whole purpose of what we did at the Memorial Fund and what I'm now doing at Citizens Behind the Badge.
Speaker 1:I've even offered just about any troll, critic, whatever you want to call them, come on the podcast, let's talk. I haven't gotten a taker yet. I've gotten a lot of people that talk a lot of noise but nobody willing to. And I have some high standards for people to come on. They need to have a mic, they need to have a webcam, but for them I'll let them come on with their phone if they want and just let's talk. Because I promise I think I actually have another idea for the podcast.
Speaker 1:I'd like to expand one day when I actually find some people that want to back the podcast. I'd like to expand one day when I actually find some people that want to back the podcast. I want to call it a beer and bitch. We'll sit down and we'll have a beer together and it's only for critics. Let's have a beer and you tell me what the issues are with cops and we'll have a conversation At the end of it. We can agree to disagree, whatever it is, but let's talk. That's the problem. We just don't talk.
Speaker 1:And how often, as a critic of police, do you sit down and actually get to talk to cops? You brought up some good stats earlier and the people that actually have interactions with police and a lot of the critics I have found and the critics are going to hate hearing this, but I've heard you guys complain about police and then when I questioned, how often have you not what you've seen on the internet? How often have you personally been in contact with the police? And it usually boils down to just one traffic stop. Yeah, and that's your judgment on all cops Like, get the fuck out of here, it's not going to fly.
Speaker 2:By the way, on that point we didn't. Interactions with police. Basically that are police initiated. All right, not calls for 9-1-1. But of those police initiated stops, about 12 percent of the white population are stopped by police, eleven percent of the black population and 10 percent of the white population are stopped by police, 11% of the black population and 10% of the Hispanic population, the point being there is no statistical difference when it comes to police stopping a black person, a white person, hispanic person or any other color or ethnicity right. So people have to understand that the facts do not support the idea that there's systemic racism in law enforcement. There is not and the numbers clearly dispute that premise. And those are the kind of numbers that I always like to get out there to prove people wrong when they try to make that point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think they're holding on to old stats, like, okay, in the 70s and 80s maybe that was an issue, fair, and I'm not going to dispute that, but it's 2024. Right that, like I grew up in an era where I and this isn't to get racially involved but I had black heroes Michael Jordan, isaiah Thomas, like I, you know. I just remember growing up and and having these like that wasn't the racial things were not, especially being in Flint, um, because predominantly black, um, it wasn't a thing for me growing up. And I know that's not all of America, so I'm not going to pretend, but in today's society I think it's more so than ever. That's not an issue like people think it is. I think maybe back in the day, but not now. But you're holding on to what happened back in the day when they had quotas, when they had these things. And I still get the question today you guys got to fulfill quotas and I'm like that's not a thing, dude, that hasn't been a thing for decades, but you're still having these conversations, still having these conversations. So that's why I encourage the write-up. Come write out with me.
Speaker 1:I want you to see how we pull people over. I want you to see why, because it's not what you think it is. I'm not even looking at anything but the license plate. I run a plate and I'm like, oh okay, this plate is from this area and it's out of date, and so that's making me look. It doesn't even mean I'm going to pull it over, but I look and I see that it's from a known dope area. Well, why are they over here? It's weird, it doesn't really belong. So now I'm going to investigate further. Okay, Well, now I've got traffic offenses. You know the plate's out of date, let me pull it over. Let me see, this is what an investigative stop is like. And they're like okay, that makes sense, I see why you pulled it over. I was like I didn't even look. I can't see the driver. It's nighttime.
Speaker 1:I work midnights. I can't even see the driver. It's Texas, everybody has tinted windows. I can't see who's in there. So I pulled it over based on these reasons. And then you start to have those conversations with people that are like, okay, that, okay, that may. I'm like, if it doesn't make sense, let me know. Like I am telling you here's my logical path of why I pulled this car over.
Speaker 1:I ran the plate. It's from this area, it's at this time of night. We're over here. That doesn't like. Those two areas don't jive. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong. Oh, and the plates out from 2022. Well, it's 2024. So, yeah, I'm pulling this car over.
Speaker 1:So, at a bare minimum, I've got you know your license plate is out for two years. Fair, okay, that's fair. Yeah, okay, get it. Okay, sir. And then I get there and the window comes down. Now it smells like straight weed. Oh, shit, okay, hey, sir, I, I'm gonna need you to step out of the vehicle. Come back here with me, we, okay? Well, why are you making him step out of the vehicle? The weed smell typically with weed, and the area that this car comes from there's guns involved. It's a dangerous area.
Speaker 1:Now you start to see the path that we go down when we're trying to make these proactive policing stops, and you would have never got any of that through a case, a court case or any of that. You need to sit down and talk to the cops. So that's the point, craig, that's. That's. That's why I do what I do and that's why I try to do, you know, talk. I try to talk to everybody, not just be an echo chamber for cops and uh, which don't get me wrong, I'm, I'm very pro police, obviously, cause I am one. But you know, if I see BS, I'll call out BS and hopefully reach a little bit of everybody.
Speaker 1:So but I appreciate you taking the time, sir, to be on here. Um, you are a huge voice for policing in general and admittedly so. If you've, you've done a little research on me, so you should know I do not like doing research on anybody I interview. I like to kind of be surprised. I like to. I just like to talk and just see where it goes. I have a format like to talk and just see where it goes. I have a format which is a rough template, but I don't like to because then the conversation becomes unnatural. I want it to be a natural conversation. So I kind of want to figure out who you are as we go, and I think I figured out a lot, man you are, you are, you're a saint, you're a saint, sir. It's a privilege.
Speaker 2:What you do is tough. What I do is just something I enjoy. It's a passion and I'm in no danger that I'm aware of. Anyway, my wife keeps warning me I better keep my mouth shut sometimes. But as long as it's supportive of law enforcement, I'm okay with it.
Speaker 1:And I know we're wrapping up. But just this is my own personal curiosity being out there on Capitol Hill and dealing with politics and all of that because I told you I'm a very much avoid politics type of guy. I wrote down I tend to write down notes while I'm talking to people and I just wanted to know making laws you had to have been a part of some of that or seeing seeing the behind the scenes stuff. So this is for my cops listening for us, we see shit and we're like I'll give you an example Catalytic converter thefts. It all of a sudden just became this epidemic. It was happening everywhere and I'm sitting back and I'm like this is such an easy fix. I'm a cop, I know how to fix this. You make this and this illegal. Now we've fixed the problem, but nobody talks to us and I don't know who to reach out to. I don't know how to get that stuff fixed.
Speaker 1:At your level, where you were at. Are these conversations happening and how do you decide? Who do you? You know, because you could go ask a cop and I could sit there and go like that cop's worthless, he doesn't even go after crime. Like how do they? How are you guys dealing with that where you were at.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I think working for Congressman Biagi it gave me. You know, the easiest answer to that question is you find a true champion of your cause, in this case, tougher crime penalties, more support for law enforcement. So who on Capitol Hill that has some influence? The freshman congressman who's not on the judiciary committee or any committee that has anything to do with law enforcement or crime? It's probably not the person that's going to get you action. But if you find a champion who passionately cares about your issue in this case law enforcement you go to that person and you tell them what the problem is. You lay it out for them, you provide them with facts and figures if you have them. If it's just a concern or a problem and you don't have the answers, then a good staff, a legislative assistant like I was for Congressman Biagi I'll do all the research, I'll figure out what the bill should look like, what language should be there. They have people up on Capitol Hill that write laws for members of Congress and so you go through that whole process.
Speaker 2:But I will tell you that something as simple as banning armor-piercing cop killer bullets was an issue Congressman Biagi was handed. You know, the president of one of the police associations came to him and he said it's a problem, these are bullets shot from handguns that can penetrate an officer's vest. We got to get rid of these bullets right and they weren't used for hunting or any legitimate purpose. So Congressman Biagi became their champion. But that was in 1980, we introduced the legislation. It didn't become law until I think it was 1985 or 86. It took five or six years for something that makes as much common sense as anything you can imagine. But because there were some opponents, there was a question about how you define an armor-piercing cop killer bullet. It's not as easy as you might think. It took several years for that common sense piece of legislation to get through and become law.
Speaker 2:But you got to have a champion. That's why we went to JD Vance. He was a freshman senator but he reached out to us. He probably wouldn't have been the guy I would have gone to for helping law enforcement because he was a freshman, didn't know his background that much. But he reached out to us and he became our champion and now he's a guy we can go to. I've developed great relations with his staff. They've been very communicative and now we have a champion that, if we have an issue that we think is of some concern. We'll go to him and he may be vice president next year. He may be a United States senator, but either way, I think he's going to help law enforcement, that's awesome Shit.
Speaker 1:All I'm sitting here in my head is like man. I wonder if he'd do the podcast talk about law enforcement.
Speaker 2:I don't think I'm going to get them now you're a little busy right now.
Speaker 1:I was going to say I probably needed yeah, I needed to get them before that all happened. We were lucky to have them. That's very cool. Well, brother, I don't have anything else for you. I really appreciate your time. We're right at the two hour mark. I think we had a fucking great episode. This is why I like doing this, because I never know who the hell I'm going to get. And you know, just talking to you in my head, I'm like he's going to have great networks, he's going to be able to get me other great guests and you're just getting your name out there and getting the Citizens behind the badge website out there. Like I've won, like I've already, this has been a great podcast because I can't wait for people to hear this and go to your website and try to help the cause.
Speaker 2:And we'll put this on our newsroom section of our website. We'll send it out to our social media platforms we have our 200,000 followers on Facebook, for example, and we'll make sure people hear about this and I'm sure, like you said, I can feed you some really good guest opportunities. We have a 20-member National Law Enforcement Advisory Council and these are law enforcement leaders all over the country, most of them retired now, but their records are impeccable and they all have great stories and great issues they could talk to you about.
Speaker 1:Excellent. Well, sir, thank you for being on. I want you to stick around once I end this, but thank you very much. Please, everybody listening, go to behindbadgeorg it's spelt just like it sounds and check it out. And, craig, thank you for being on. Brother, my pleasure, my privilege. Thank you, aaron, take it easy.
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