2 Cops 1 Donut
We were asked “what exactly is the point of this show?”Answer: social media is an underutilized tool by police. Not just police, but firefighters, DA’s, nurses, military, ambulance, teachers; front liners. This show is designed to reveal the full potential of true communication through long discussion format. This will give a voice to these professions that often go unheard from those that do it. Furthermore, it’s designed to show authentic and genuine response; rather than the tiresome “look, cops petting puppies” approach. We are avoiding the sound bite narrative so the first responders and those associated can give fully articulated thought. The idea is the viewers both inside and outside these career fields can gain realistic and genuine perspective to make informed opinions on the content. Overall folks, we want to earn your respect, help create the change you want and need together through all channels of the criminal justice system and those that directly impact it. This comes from the heart with nothing but positive intentions. That is what this show is about. Disclaimer: The views shared by this podcast, the hosts, and/or the guests do not in anyway reflect their employer or the policies of their employer. Any views shared or content of this podcast is of their opinion and not intended to malign any religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything. 2 Cops 1 Donut is not responsible and does not verify for accuracy any of the information contained in the podcast series available for listening on this site or for watching shared on this site or others. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. This podcast does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services.
2 Cops 1 Donut
From Felony Charge to Police Badge How Did This Happen? Matt Thornton Story
What happens when someone with a criminal record becomes the police officer sworn to uphold the law? Detective Matt Thornton's remarkable story challenges everything we think we know about the people behind the badge.
Growing up in a rough neighborhood where police were considered the enemy, Thornton's path to law enforcement began with his own arrest at age 21 for carrying an illegal firearm. Years later, driven by the need to provide for his daughter, he reluctantly took the police exam. Despite facing ridicule in the academy for his criminal record and ostracism from fellow officers who knew his background, Thornton persevered through 21 years of service, eventually specializing in narcotics enforcement before becoming a detective.
What sets Thornton apart is his unwavering commitment to constitutional policing and treating everyone with dignity—regardless of their background or circumstances. Drawing from his unique perspective straddling both worlds, he speaks candidly about police misconduct, the importance of street knowledge, and why some officers struggle to connect with the communities they serve. Through his current work as a School Resource Officer and his youth organization "Home Away From Home," Thornton mentors young people facing the same challenges he once did.
Thornton's philosophy is straightforward yet revolutionary in policing circles: "Everyone under the sun deserves respect." His willingness to call out problematic behavior while still serving as an officer makes him both controversial and essential in conversations about police reform. As he poignantly states, "Bad policing makes our job harder, puts us in danger."
Looking for real talk about policing without the typical defensiveness or platitudes? This episode delivers powerful insights from someone who's lived on both sides of the thin blue line.
#police #lawenforcement #cops #bridgethegap #bethechange
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Coming up next on Two Cops, One Donut.
Speaker 2:I really. I think I was stopped for speeding.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And then a search ended up happening somehow and it was a UUW Still a conviction, really, yeah, charged with felony, and they let you become a cop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is crazy. Disclaimer Welcome to Two Cops One Donut podcast. The views and opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Two Cops One Donut, its hosts or affiliates. The podcast is intended for entertainment and informational purposes only. We do not endorse any guests' opinions or actions discussed during the show. Any content provided by guests is of their own volition and listeners are encouraged to form their own opinions. Furthermore, some content is graphic and has harsh language Viewer discretion advised and is intended for mature audiences. Two Cops One Donut and its host do not accept any liability for statements or actions taken by guests. Thank you for listening. All right, welcome back to Cops One Donut. I am your host, sergeant Eric Levine, and I am humbled to be with the one and only Detective, matt Thornton. How are you, sir? How are you doing, sarge?
Speaker 1:I'm doing good I can't complain, Living the dream brother, yeah, living the dream Finally made this thing happen.
Speaker 2:Love it.
Speaker 1:Love being here, hell yeah. So for those listening, detective Matt Thornton is a seasoned, seasoned officer. He has been in the game what 20 plus years? How long you been in it? This is my 21st year. 21st year. Okay, he's old as shit. He's a former boxer, right? Oh yeah, knows how to throw a two-piece, if you know what I'm talking about. Knows how to throw a two-piece, if you know what I'm talking about. And Matt has what we would call a controversial career in a sense, when cops look at him and we'll get into that. So that's going to be the exciting part. But the most important thing is Matt is a part of the Two Cops One Donut team now and we're happy to have him for one and two. We're going to tell you guys today about what got him into law enforcement, what he specialized in and what he has going on in his career right now and the relationship with what Two Cops One Donuts got going on. So glad you're here, brother.
Speaker 2:I appreciate being here, man. I love the intro.
Speaker 1:Hell yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm nobody important. I'm just that dude with the big mouth that likes to cause controversy.
Speaker 1:Hell yeah, brother. Yeah, but it's for good reason, it's for good cause I appreciate you being here, man.
Speaker 2:I love the dynamic we have here on this channel. Like you always say, we're not an echo chamber chamber. Me and you might not even agree on a lot of things with the panel, but we sit and talk about them because we I mean we respect each other and no matter, no matter where our opinion comes from, we.
Speaker 1:That's what this country needs to sit down and talk about it yeah and and not to be, not to be married to the ideas either. Like no, not for me, like my heart has changed on so many different topics in different ways so many times. You know, one of the big ones is like qualified immunity. I am, I used to be like no, don't, don't mess with that at all, like if you don't have. And now I am my thoughts on qualified immunities.
Speaker 1:I still don't think we should get rid of it, but I think there does need to be some tweaks I do see some flaws in it and I'm like like, oh shit, I didn't know that Because us as cops we never really get to see the follow through once somebody's qualified immunity has been taken and we're like okay got his qualified immunity taken. That's probably what should have happened. And you find out the person got nothing from that and it ended up getting stomped down the road. It's such a long follow through.
Speaker 2:See up, getting you know stomped down the road. It's such a long follow-through. See, I come from the other side. Like I say, tear it down and restructure. Fine, figure something else out.
Speaker 1:Yeah it starts to start from scratch. Yeah, yeah and so. But that's the thing is, had you and I not had these conversations before, maybe I would have still been the guy that was like no, no, no, don't touch it, leave it, uh-huh, and but again, that's why we have to talk.
Speaker 2:We have to come to the table and guess what America? We can disagree and I still love you, sarge Right.
Speaker 1:We'll be friends. Exactly, I love it. All right, let's get into Matt Thornton here First and foremost. Sir, law enforcement in general. There's a lot of things that draw us to this career field and it's always interesting to me and this is why I ask it on every show what brought you into law enforcement? Did you have a family member? A tragedy? Were you sick of the system? How things were? Did you happen to have a friend that woke up one drunken night and was like hey, let's go take the civil service test tomorrow. I want to be a cop and you're like I'll go with you, bro. I say that example because one of my best friends in law enforcement is exactly how he became a cop.
Speaker 2:That's crazy.
Speaker 2:I know there's a lot of different stories like that. Mine is a little different. Like I never wanted to be a cop, I never growing up probably like a very rare story I grew up and I hated the police. I never wanted nothing to do with them, the people that I actually was around and who mentored me and raised me. The cop was the enemy, and it just happens. It was just by chance that I got interested in taking the test and that was after a long time. You want me to start from the beginning?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I want to know. I want to know what pissed you off about police. And then, what was the because? You and I are exactly alike in this. So I grew up in Flint hated cops, oh, yeah, for sure. And my dad was a cop down in Texas, so I would have these conversations with him from afar. But you don't have a father figure there and you're like I had a stepdad, don't get wrong. But I had a lot of emotional issues going on as a child where you know it's like I would never tell the dude like you're not my dad, but at the same time I didn't want to listen to nothing and he worked second shift, so I was never.
Speaker 2:You know, this ain't about me, it's about you, brother I got you man we've talked about that's that issues before?
Speaker 1:too, because you and I are both alike in that.
Speaker 2:So yes, I was a uh when I was growing up and I was a. I was a good athlete in school, but I was a terrible student, rebellious kid. I don't want to listen, I didn't want to take orders of destruction from anybody. Um, the town that I grew up in, the, the pd, was. I had several horrible interactions with the cops there. All my friends and people that I was around not all of them, but a majority of them were street gang members and people that weren't necessarily the greatest influence and it doesn't mean I don't love them to this day. So the cop just seemed. They just seemed like they were the enemy, and that's just how it always was. Growing up, I actually my my, let me see, when I turned 21, I was, I was.
Speaker 2:As a young man, I always carried a gun with me, legal or illegal, I was. I was uh. I wouldn't say that I was a criminal, but I did a lot of things I shouldn't have been doing and I got caught with that uh, a gun. I remember I got caught with it riding in a car. I had the glove. I think I had the firearm in the glove box. I had the bullets hidden up here. I was just not a very nice kid. You're a little shithead. Yeah, I was. I was. I got arrested there. I felt I was dehumanized on that one. It just made me hate the cops worse. On top of that, that was right around the Rodney king era.
Speaker 1:Oh, that was to me.
Speaker 2:That was my george floyd, like rodney damn you and all these white cops. They're racist. They can get away with just beating the, beating the guy half to death. Nothing happens to them. I hated them even more.
Speaker 1:So what were the circumstances behind the stop?
Speaker 2:uh, I really I think I was stopped for speeding.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And then a search ended up happening somehow and it was a UUW. It's still a conviction, really. Yeah, charged with a felony and they let you become a cop. Yeah, which is crazy, charged with a felony. Charged with a felony. I ended up, obviously, because my dad helped me pay for a good attorney, I got a drop down misdemeanor. With some supervision. It was the top two, class four or, I'm sorry, a class eight, and, and where I'm at is, uh, that's one step below the the felony level, so stayed under my record. It's still there to this day. Look at you. So, yeah, probably I'm kind of like I got a buddy.
Speaker 1:I got a buddy on my department. He had gotten arrested for public intoxication, I think in New Orleans as a cop. So we think they found his mugshot and they teased the hell out of him.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. I think it was the last time I had hair. I got arrested for that stop and I had real long hair at the time.
Speaker 1:My lawyer said make sure you look presentable in courts. I cut off all my hair and then, oh, there you go. Well, involved ever since now. Looking back, I know that was a long time ago, rodney king especially, you know was there anything that you can look back on where you're like as a cop? You're like all right, maybe. Maybe I was a little wrong here, because I can see where the cops are coming from now, but at the same time, is there anything that you can see where you're like man? These cops did not know what the hell they were doing. They shouldn't have done this or that.
Speaker 2:I see the second side of that story. I see, like what were they doing? I've been personally and that's why I think I run my mouth so much and I'm really not afraid to call it out have zero tolerance for cops that are even rude to people, much less trample their rights. I had some very bad experiences growing up with officers and I know, because I am one now and I've been one for a long time, that this was unconstitutional. This was tyranny. This was just pitifully horrible behavior. There was no cameras around. They could have done whatever they want. This was. This was just pitifully, pitifully horrible behavior. There was no cameras around. They could have done whatever they want. I was. I was stopped by some wicked evil men, and that's personal experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So when I hear, when I hear the, the, the, we're all the good guys like, like bro, we all have different experiences. I will never see it that way. I don't think that should be tolerated, or or there should not even be one of those left.
Speaker 1:Yeah I you had said something um that you growing up and kind of the culture, the vibe I got. You didn't say these exact words, but the vibe I got was the culture was not to trust the police. Growing up, oh 100, and I grew up in a similar environment where people didn't have a trust for the police and I don't know if it was warranted or unwarranted.
Speaker 1:So I fully admit that, like I don't know if all my friends that would talk shit about the police were saying that because it was fun to say at the time it was just the rebellious thing to do, or they were actually having these negative responses from the cops. I was not having any interactions with the cops, but the ones that I did have weren't good. Um, I had told people at the time that you know, my mom had just gotten us one of those rollout hoops. They were new like that. You could, you know, towed around and put it in the street, play a little street ball. You fill it up with water in the bottom and, you know, hold it up. Well, they, the cops, have rolled up. They're like, throw me the rock, throw me the rock. I was like, oh shit, like it was a two-man unit and I was like they're gonna play ball with us, like awesome.
Speaker 1:I lived on a dead-end street, so it wasn't like I was impeding flow through traffic by any means. And the dude stabbed the ball. His partner knocked our rim down and broke the hoop and said we told y'all to quit playing ball in the street. We're tired of dealing with these calls. And I was like what the fuck, you know. And so that was my big run-in with the cops. Like that's not, that doesn't compare to a lot of people's experiences. I had bad experiences but for me I remember calling my dad and be like dad. I know you're a good cop, but, man, I fucking hate him. I can't stand him. And that's when he told me you can either be a part of the problem or you can be part of the solution.
Speaker 1:At the time I did not want to hear that. You know you're a hormone puberty changing child because that's where I was at in my life. I didn't want to hear that. And then something clicked. You know, 16 years old-ish, had my license, had a little bit of freedom, and I'm starting to really kind of think about where I want my life to go. And I've seen a few of my friends getting in trouble. You know, dope doing stuff and I'm like man, I could see me easily getting caught up in that. I don't want to go down that route. So I tried to avoid them and I was like what if I try? This is the cockiness of me. What if I try to change the system? What if I I'm the change in police?
Speaker 2:really, how old were you? I, I was 16, dude.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, an idiot, an idiot, don't get me wrong. I think we can affect a lot in our little fishbowl, but the arrogance to have at 16, that I'm going to change.
Speaker 1:I'm going to be the one to change Flint. That's what I thought. Oh my gosh, that's great though. Yeah, so where you're coming from, I get it and I'm with you on that, and I think it's fun like cops and I'm like I was like you tell them, if they ask you that, it's because I love policing, that I do what I do.
Speaker 1:I see the honor and potential of it and I don't want anybody else to screw that up, and I've been blessed to have a great career where everybody that I've worked around has been that way and the ones that weren't got in trouble and got what I would consider is the right thing, whether it was a write-up or it was getting fired or it was getting charged, but that hasn't been something I have seen rampant like. I thought I was going to see if that makes sense. I thought I was going to see it everywhere, um. But I do also think I was just blessed on where I'm at. I got lucky. I'm in. I literally am in what I consider probably one of the best departments in the nation. Thankfully, um and uh, I can't say where it's at.
Speaker 1:You guys know that everybody listening can't say it on the podcast, but really I would tell you if I was miserable there, I would tell you if I was having a bad experience. But I haven't. I've I've literally seen some of the best professionals, so the best training. I don't see. I wish it was the model for the nation I would really wish it was, but is what it is. But back to you, sir, back to you. So you got this bad experience. You get this um, almost felony. Uh, you're a little shithead carrying around, you know what were you carrying?
Speaker 2:I'm just curious what was your? I believe it was like a little 30. I wonder if it fit in my pocket my brother had 38 my brother, I had a nine. I always had a little 38 snowballs okay, that's.
Speaker 1:that's old school gangster cop stuff Like mafia style.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Back in the day. Oh my gosh, what an idiot. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with that thing. Probably I was a young guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Nobody To me see. That's how I understand the anger in a young man. I remember what it felt like to be cuffed in those handcuffs that hurt so bad, sitting in that squad for hours. The cops were standing above me making comments and then having to go in front of a judge sitting in a cell. I know how that feels.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I understand the rage of a young man. I was just an angry young man, yeah, nothing more, nothing less.
Speaker 1:And which is so funny because I'm such an optimistic person now and when I was a kid, I remember being just pissed off all the time, no reason, and being mad. Like I got to visit I would visit my dad during the summers and I did not have a bad upbringing. Like I didn't have a rough household. Like my mom was tough because she had to be. She was, you know, basically a single mom with my stepdad working second shift.
Speaker 2:So she was tough as she needed to be with me, but I was still so mad that my dad wasn't in the picture. Yeah, there's a lot of psychological stuff that we don't even realize is there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, looking back, my parents weren't compatible people. There's no way they should have been together and they realized that very early. So I'm glad they did. Actually, reflecting now, I'm so glad that they did that because I think they're better people because of it and I'm a better person because of it. I am who I am because of that whole experience but I don't know why. I was just full of crazy chemical reactions I guess at that time and the environment being around Flint and you know, mount Morris and in Beecher and just everywhere that we were, is just nonstop closure. Everything was, you know, businesses never stayed open. The GM plants were closing all the time. There's always. It just is a constant state of decay. That's what I grew up in just decay all the time and sounds like. What was it like for you as far as your environment growing up, where you were at?
Speaker 2:uh, it was just who I was around really, the people that mentored me. One person that mentored me a lot growing up was a dude. He was the chief in a pretty I'm not gonna say the name, but a rather large street gang and he kind of took me under his wing and just showed me he didn't, he didn't encourage me to be in the gang or anything like that, but he, he showed me the rules of the life and this is where the morals and standards and he was really good to me, yeah and um just protected me. I always felt safe. He's older, um, I I was, I was, I was just kind of almost felt super protective and in awe of him. So he's kind of what.
Speaker 2:And that's where I saw one of my worst encounters was was when the police stopped when I was with him one time. No probable cause Hands were put on us and then and then the stuff that they said was the really scary thing yeah, evil, evil, stuff that they were saying like bragging about. He would tell me that, yeah, these are the two cops that beat, beat me up and left me on the side of the road last week. And sure enough, that's who it was they were talking about. I heard them with my own ears. Wow, I beat none because, just because of who he is, we didn't have no honesty. We were going to get some food and, um, yeah, stuff like that, like so I saw it firsthand and I heard about it constantly, yeah. So that was kind of who who molded me and and I still use some of them principles to this day, not in a negative way. I'm not trying to glorify that street light, but there is a, there is a certain code that I respect hey y'all, eric levine, two cops, one donut.
Speaker 1:I'm out here currently on my military time and I thought I'd take a second to kind of give a shout out to my sponsor, peregrine. I've roughly got about 18 years of law enforcement under my belt and I've seen a lot of really cool advancements in law enforcement. The biggest advancements in law enforcement, I think, are like fingerprints, dna testing and then, more recently I would say, license plate readers. Those things have all changed the game in law enforcement and now I think Peregrine is on that level that's going to change it up. But I've had people ask me what is Peregrine? And I want to talk about that. Now there's a caveat to it. Peregrine is so in-depth I'm only going to talk about one small feature that it's able to do, because I can't fit everything that they do in one little ad. All right, I'm going to take you on a little mental journey.
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Speaker 1:There's like this internal gap of sharing information. Here's where Peregrine starts to flip things on its head, so to speak. Peregrine can sift through your reports and start to identify the detectives and the cases that match the similar MO to your cases that you're working, and it can bridge that information and present it to you in an easy to read package. Hold on, it gets better, I promise. Peregrine can scan your CAD calls for related incidents and can even comb through suspect history in your report writing system. Like RMS, it's able to match possible suspects based on the MO and the geographical locations.
Speaker 1:Oh wait, the rabbit hole goes deeper. If you've got a suspect name, Peregrine has the ability to analyze your stored body cam videos and search for that suspect's name and find videos of them to give you the most up-to-date context with that suspect. And what's great about that? As an investigator you know your body cam has the ability to geolocate so you can see the latest locations, specifically where your suspect was last seen. This is just the tip of the iceberg and all I wanted to do with it is tease you guys enough, just to seek out more information. So please reach out to me personally, dm me, or reach out to peregrineio and just tell them that eric levine from two cops when donut sent you. I don't endorse things I don't believe in and I would stake my reputation on their product. Please check them out because I know it's going to change law enforcement and here's one of the biggest um injustices that we do in policing is we take a fresh boy scout and where do we?
Speaker 1:put them In the roughest, hoodest neighborhood when they hit the streets, and I think that's the most messed up system thing that we do. I get it Trial by fire, that's what they say. Trial by fire. But who does that benefit? It benefits the officer, maybe because he becomes cultured and learns and understands the streets, but it doesn't benefit the citizens at all and it sure as hell is a growing pain that they have to deal with. When guys like the person that mentored you has to come deal with this new rookie cop and teach him the ropes in a way and how to talk to people and all of that stuff, because that's what ends up happening. We don't consider that. I would say that when we start putting people out in the streets, we have to consider their backgrounds. You've got to put them under somebody that can help teach them that without getting them hurt and without inflaming that neighborhood.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, there's a certain respect that comes with with the whole thing on the street is that's the code of the streets Respect. Give respect, you'll get respect. Yes, and I think that's where a lot of these young and the PDs get it so wrong. Like man you're not. You are not giving respect just because you wear that uniform. I understood that from day one Right. So many don't.
Speaker 1:Yep, yeah, absolutely I. And it's funny too, cause I I attribute the way that I talk to people from from how I grew up um, understanding you know who, even just who, to approach first. Like you know, talking to the wrong person at the wrong time can cause a lot of problems, and you know, if you're, if I am going up to a couple of gang members and I recognize who's a shot caller and who's the, what you know, the young, young and who's you know more of the OGs and stuff like that. But like, hey, can I, can I talk to you? Is it okay, is it cool if I talk to him? Like, just, even though I know I'm going to talk to that guy? Eventually, I just asked the OG if it was cool if I talked to that dude and it just showed him a little piece of street respect and that's all it really took.
Speaker 1:It is hard to teach that to a Boy Scout and I'm not saying that as a derogatory thing. It's not your fault if you grew up in a great home, in a great neighborhood and you didn't have any crime that you ever faced. That's not your fault and I admire people that grew up that way and want to become a cop. But I will say I think the best cops are the ones that grew up on the line. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's the world you see.
Speaker 2:I mean like my family. I'm not gonna name them by name, I love them dearly, but I mean they're, they were entrenched and they were, they were into some stuff. Um, I got a. Uh, I remember who was in the war gosh, he's in a wheelchair to this day from from doing stuff on the street. Um, they're I've. I know what it's like to have those people that most I'm gonna say it, most cops will consider their enemy like those are the shitheads of the the world. No, I know what it feels like to get genuine love from them and respect, and that's actually who protected and raised me. So, yeah, I, I really resent when I hear that cone and and and. There's cops, cops that have that attitude. My, my, my motto is like every, everyone under the sun deserves respect.
Speaker 1:Yep, and there's again. I go back to the Boy Scout idea. If you never seen somebody that was raised by a single mom, whose mom was raised by a single mom, whose mom was raised by a single mom, you, you've got no fucking clue of the difference there culturally. Yeah, they, they, they have no idea that this person has never even considered anything other than a life of crime. And they have a plan for when they get locked up.
Speaker 1:That concept, concept like you've got a college concept, you've got I'm going to graduate high school, I'm going to go to college, I'm going to do this career and then I'm going to have a family. This person is I'm going to go sling, I'm, when I get locked up, I'm going to go meet my boys over there, I'm going to do my time, I'm going to learn some stuff and I'm gonna go back out and I'm gonna take care of my family the same way and I'm not gonna get caught this time. And to other people, that's crazy. And I'm sitting there. I'm like dude, you, you gotta understand. They didn't have so. Just being aware that that's a possibility to some of these cops that come out is is mind-blowing to them, like I used literally see the light bulbs go off in their head. They're like no one's ever told me it that way yeah, it's the, it's a mixture.
Speaker 2:That's why I think the most like, like you said, the most uh, effective cops are the ones that have know a mixture of both worlds right, and understand and respect both worlds.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, and that's so with you and you. You're growing up. You're not liking police, you're in a sketchy hood. Sounds like it doesn't sound like you were growing up. You're not liking police, you're in a sketchy hood. Sounds like it doesn't sound like you were growing up in the middle America. So, as you're going through that, what was the catalyst?
Speaker 2:The catalyst for me was my daughter, my mom, I got her mom pregnant when I was 21 21 right after I got out of out of jail, okay, and I wasn't in jail for long, it was a day and it was like overnight but right after I met her mom not enough to give you real street cred.
Speaker 1:But no, no, no, I've been in the joint.
Speaker 2:I said long enough to put that orange.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but not long enough, let me let me ask you this did your woman put some money down on your books? No, he's like. I don't even have a book yet.
Speaker 2:No, I didn't even get a chance to get a book and I told her. I ain't never coming back here. Oh shit, yeah, I ended up having my daughter. I love my daughter. She just got married.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you had your kid Yep, and I mean you could have gone straight and done a lot of things. Why police work? Well, what happened?
Speaker 2:was my hatred towards police never really stopped. I got a job First it was a warehouse, then it was a chemical plant, and I just had a steady resume. I had followed the law from the time I was 21 until I was time I was 28. Didn't get in any more trouble, didn't? I? Was just a solid citizen. I was poor, really poor, struggled, lived, check to check. So what happened was a couple of my friends became cops. They went the college route, the army route, and I had known them growing up Same route I went.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so I thought it was. I mean, I was a little older, I had two kids by that time and I thought it was pretty cool. Like man, what do you think? I'm looking at these ads in the paper and it says all you need is a high school diploma. I never went to college, I never took an ACT, I didn't go to college. So I was like, well, what's it going to hurt, just to try? I remember talking about it with my wife at the time and she was like it's $20. I remember that being the issue. It was $20 to take the test and we didn't have money back then. We were pretty poor, two kids and trying to pay for a house. So I ended up taking the test and the city. I did really well on the test and I was shocked. I'm like, wow, an idiot like me they're really going to consider.
Speaker 2:Because it's not that I held police in high esteem. My motivation was this was a career, this was way more money for me. My kids can look up and think that, ok, my dad just not just a warehouse guy. And so I was like, ok, well, let's see, I didn't look at it as helping anybody. I still was very, very weary of the police and I did really well on that test and I remember getting so close and you want to hear a funny story about that. I was in my house when I you know, they do the background checks and they do investigations and they will pop up at your house when you're a candidate yeah, I didn't know about this stuff. So they pop in at my house and they didn't realize. I had no idea that was going to happen. I had my brother in law living with me who just got out of prison for a shooting, and he was standing in the living room next to me when this background investigator All of a sudden, he runs to the bathroom, starts flushing toilets.
Speaker 2:We snuck up. I'm like bro, get downstairs, man. I thought I knew what they were doing, so we smuggled him downstairs. That's a true story.
Speaker 1:That is epic.
Speaker 2:We smuggled him in the basement. I had to wake my wife up at the time and I was like, hey, your brother's downstairs, go ahead and tell these cops what a good dude I am.
Speaker 2:so they sat at the table and I know my brother was with his ear against the door. The base was listening, yeah. But we got through that. The cop left, or the investigator left, and he said, uh, if you pass the psych test, we're gonna hire you. And then about a week later I got a letter in the mail. It turns out they did extra background checks and they found out who my family was and they said no, because of your background and because of who your family is, we're not taking you. And that stung.
Speaker 1:That really stung. Okay, so in that you finally, obviously you do get hired.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I went in, maybe about a year later. Okay, so I go for the city that I'm in now and that's the city, the actual city I grew up in and I was a ball player there.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you became a cop in the city you grew up in. Yep, I have made it. I have made some bold statements about when I was wanting to be a cop, some bold statements about when I was wanting to be a cop. I wanted to be a cop where I grew up. After having been a cop. I am so glad I didn't. It's got its perks and it's got his negative.
Speaker 1:Yes, and one of the things that I never really considered was one you end up finding out dirt on people that you had no clue about and had these opinions way up here of, and then those opinions come way down here and that that hurts, um, so I, I'm, I'm glad I didn't have to deal with that. And then the other part for me is the ability to be corrupted is much higher when you're in a city that you and I don't mean corrupted in a. I guess it's always a bad way, but you know people are wanting to hey, yeah, come to our restaurant, you know, we, we remember you come, you know, have a free dinner on us, or come over here, and you know, uh, and then you have to pull that person over and you get caught in these weird positions and bennett knows a million times yeah and then then you're sitting down at a restaurant that you grew up around and your family's with you and you realize you arrested one of the cooks yeah, that.
Speaker 1:So for me I'm like man, I'm so glad I didn't have to deal with that um, but when I was coming up I would have told you for sure I want to be a cop in flint. You know, to this day I still love, um, some of what flint history has. You know, they, they, they've got a lot of cool history, but they have some bad history and I've always respected and loved their uniforms Stupid things that you look back at as a kid Like me. I love Michigan State Police, love them. I absolutely adore Michigan State Police because of their uniform and their car. I don't understand what is it? Cool color, okay. So they have what's called the blue goose, okay, I don't know if you've ever seen that. Actually, while we're sitting here chit-chatting, I can probably pull that up and, uh, let me so.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna let this idiot out real quick. Okay, you do that.
Speaker 1:I'll. I will talk while we're doing that. It's kind of a first for the podcast, so if you're listening, most of you are not going to see this. You are actually only going to hear it, because I do not post the whole video episode, I only post the clips, and so I am pulling this car up specifically just for Matt to look at. Let's see here. Share screen.
Speaker 2:Okay, oh, I've seen those before yeah, yeah, yeah, they're pretty.
Speaker 1:This is. That's a pretty good shot right there. So, um, little history on that car in itself is the the you know, of course, the bubblegum light on top. Um, and back in the day they used to put a red light on that stop sign that goes across the hood, and that way you knew that it was the state police that were there and were there. So if they were out in front of your house on a domestic or whatever other people would know that that's where they're at.
Speaker 2:Ah yeah, I remember just seeing some training videos with those cars in it. I think we did stop training with them as the example.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they're, they're, it's not, they're a veryrenowned, like you know, georgia State Police, if you're going to watch a Chase video. It's probably going to be a Georgia State Police video. So same with Michigan State Police. They're just very well-rounded state troopers and they also like they handle calls. They're not just highway, they don't just sit on interstates and stuff like that. They go, they go handle calls, help out local law enforcement and stuff like that. So wow.
Speaker 2:That's unheard of here. You won't see a trooper in, uh no.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly. I was actually a little disappointed when I went to where I went. Um, you know a million plus people in here we are on the fricking freeway handling accidents and stuff. I was like where's the state police Exactly? Why are they?
Speaker 2:not dealing with this crap. The only time I the only time in my life that I've ever seen a state trooper this is a crazy story. The only time I've ever seen one was when I was arrested. We happened to, I remember, because the stop, the stop, happened to be like right down the street from where he lived, or something.
Speaker 1:He wasn't on the call.
Speaker 2:This is the only time I've ever seen a state trooper car lit up on a scene.
Speaker 1:I love that we keep coming back to you being arrested and we're talking to a cop guys. This is the best part. I love this.
Speaker 2:He talked really bad to me too, punk, whoever you are, that's why you know, buddy, they love right, people don't forget yeah, let me catch you on the street.
Speaker 1:You're probably long gone now, you old as shit oh, that was old 30 years ago all right, so you get hired and you go through police training. Yeah, now you, as a person that is very outspoken about policing in general, what was your impression through the training? What was the pros and cons that you saw for your impression of a person that didn't really care for police?
Speaker 2:It was shocking it was. I didn't have a good experience at all. They tried to make an example of me.
Speaker 1:Because you asked questions?
Speaker 2:Not really no. And even back then. Oh, the second day I'm down there, the leader. I got trained at one of the militaristic academies.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:The guy running the whole thing pulls me in front of the class with my criminal history in his hand. He's trying to humiliate me in front of everybody. No shit, yeah. Yeah, I look back on it. I just I want to fight that dude. To this day, I'm a grown man with two kids. The pd just hired me, did all these like they're fine with me, right? So you want to bring me out here and humiliate me? Plus, I was only when there were tattoos.
Speaker 2:Um, so you were inked up right then. Yeah, I was inked up back then not as bad as I am now, but I still had. I still had a lot of ink, yeah, um. So I thought it was unfair and, being a 28, 28 year old father or two like I, I found it so disrespectful so that that was like that was the worst pill to swallow, right off the bat yeah, so you weren't even like a fresh snot nose rookie.
Speaker 1:You were no, 28 years old. You're growing. This one's there, yeah, okay so I mean, I I'm not.
Speaker 2:I'm not that outspoken that I'm gonna try to uh push back against someone who's literally could call home and have me, can this second?
Speaker 1:so I had to swallow it and uh now as being I was an academy instructor for three years I will tell you we would pull people. If we could embarrass you in some sort of way or put you on the spot or anything, we would do that. But I could always tell you why we're doing that. I would do that because we need to test you and make sure, like, if you can't handle pressure in front of a safe, captive audience, then how are you going to handle it in the streets? That would be and I'm not saying that that's what happened to you. I am saying like anytime I would do something.
Speaker 1:Like if my leadership pulled me and were like, why are you, you know, doing X? Are you trying to specifically, like you said, trying to humiliate somebody? No, I would never try to humiliate somebody. I will try to make a teaching moment and try to observe the person's reaction to make sure that if they can't handle it right here, they're not going to handle it on the street when there's a crowd around them, stuff like that. So I can see that angle. Was that your impression? You've been a cop 20 plus years. You know if that was what they were trying to do or if they weren't, were they doing it just to be jackasses, or were they doing?
Speaker 2:it. I thought they were doing it because they didn't like the fact that a dude with a criminal record was disgracing their academy.
Speaker 2:And back then like that was probably very rare. That's the. That's the impression I got. Yeah, just because I didn't see them, I seen them test one of the guy kind of like that, but he was that dude was, he was a mess, like he was. He he wasn't going to make it, so but I, I really it was just the personal things that they would say to me. I didn't appreciate. I think it was at, it was at that moment. Actually. I'm actually thankful for it now because it built up. It's like look, dude, I'm going to be, I'm going to leave my mark, people are going to know my name in this profession and I'm going to prove all you guys wrong. So I take it as motivation. Yeah, that's my man that's.
Speaker 1:That's why. How are you? That's where you and I are very like I I look at things as a challenge all the time, like, all right, you're telling me that I can't change things uh-huh all right, let me find out. That's exactly what my motivation was yeah let me find out.
Speaker 2:I just knew I would be like who is this guy? I don't even remember your name. But how long was your academy? Oh, let's see three months. Four months, 480 hours, what is that?
Speaker 1:I'm not a math, you and I are dumb yeah, I'm I don't know, it's a while I was gonna say normally when I have people on here, I'm like I'm dumb so I can't math.
Speaker 2:But I know you and I were both dumb, so that I I got through it.
Speaker 2:It was uh, I I didn't. Obviously I didn't have the greatest time down there. You learn and they do. You learn discipline and and different things like that. I I didn't get the, the amount of learning that the or the type of learning that we got. I I didn't apply. I don't believe in the militaristic academy, I just don't. We made our beds for like half the time we're down there and learned about the Constitution for 10 minutes. It was kind of just bizarre to me, yeah that is a very good point.
Speaker 1:That's a very good point. I will say I am not a fan of block training and that, especially when you were coming up back in the day, that was a big thing. Block training Are you familiar with that term? No, what is that? Okay? So block training is like all right. Week one we're going to go over the constitution. Week two, we're going to go over arrest, search and seizure. Week three, we're going to go over combatives. Week four we're going to go over combatives.
Speaker 1:Week four we're going to go over arrest, search and seizure, so you never come back to it. You get, you get through it, you test on it and then you go to the next. Right, that is terrible. That is a terrible form of training and that was very popular, you know, especially 80s and 90s, like that's huge, um, and I think there's departments to still do it today.
Speaker 1:Um, where I'm at, everything is progressive, it's so, and you're a fighter, so I I will kind of put it in terms that you understand best, if I'm gonna learn how to fight, I gotta start with my stance. I gotta start learning. You know, related stance, I gotta learn how. What's a fist? Okay, we're gonna break it down. Basic, my thumb can't be tucked, that's a bad fist. Chin, we're going to break it down. Basic, my thumb can't be tucked, that's a bad fist. Keep your chin down. Yeah, keep your chin down, stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Okay, now that you got the stance, now we're going to learn a jab. Here's a jab, here's a cross. All right, we're going to keep going. Now guys, all right, it's week three. Let me see your fist. All right, let me see that jab cross. All right, we're gonna throw in a hook, all right, cool, cool. Now we're gonna. You know, we're gonna bob and weave, we're gonna get up and under that like cool. But we keep going back to the feet, we keep going back to your stance, we keep going back to the fist. We don't just touch on something and then get past it. We we progress the whole way. The entire academy should be learning the entire sequence of a fight does that make sense oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1:That's how we teach our control tactics. Where I'm at is the. It's the full sequence of a fight. You start on your feet, you get taken to the ground, you get back up, you separate, you go to your batman belt, you do all that stuff. But everything that we do is based on the concept of trying to start things with your hands, knowing when to abandon the hands and go to your batman belt, or earning your paycheck. So what you'll find where I'm at and I'm very proud of this fact is that our guys don't depend on their batman belt. The stats don't back that up. Our guys try to go hands-on almost every time. They don't depend on their Batman belt. The stats don't back that up. Our guys try to go hands-on almost every time. They don't immediately go to a gun, they don't immediately go to their taser, they don't immediately go to pepper spray. They try to go hands-on first. I love that. I think that's how it should be and that's how I like to look at academies.
Speaker 1:We're not just going over the Constitution. We're not just going over the constitution. We're going to say, hey, here's the constitution, these are what you guys need to know. Here's all the ones that affect you the most in policing. Like you as a cop, you don't need to know the third amendment, you don't even know how to quarter. You know military people. Like, that's not something that's going to affect you, but let's talk about the ones that really are going to affect you the most. We're going to talk about them all, but we're going to go over the ones that affect you the most on the job. Cool, now you got that concept.
Speaker 1:Here's some scenarios. Now we're going to go through scenario training, but guess what we're going to sprinkle in the constitution again. How does it apply to the scenario you just did? It needs to have that backdrop, yes, and so we're going to do a loud music party. This is one of our very popular scenarios that we do. We have a loud music party at an apartment and we have a whole mock village, an indoor mock village. It's amazing, right?
Speaker 1:So what we are trying to get these cops to do, these recruits to do, is put their foot in the doorway. That's what we're trying to do. We bait them and're so good at it. It's, we've dealt with it a million times. So we got the music going. We're like and we're just standing inside, we're dancing, we're doing stupid shit, right, and we got fake beers and we're drinking like, wow, yeah, fuck you, pig, you know. And we're like, all right, we're gonna shut the door. Now you can go fuck yourself. And we're going to shut the door. And what do they do? Bloop, bloop, bloop. They put their hand up, they put their foot in the doorway, yeah, and then it's like boom end scenario. Let's go back. Let's debrief. You fucked up. Here's what you did. You just violated the guy's rights. Guess what. You're fired and you're going to get charged, like we. I think that that's good.
Speaker 2:I mean that's, it's got to have the. To me, the, the, the, that block training was it did me no good. I didn't remember. I couldn't even tell you any of it to this day. I didn't. I didn't care for the training down there. But to me, the two most important things in that training with when we're talking about backdrop, which which I didn't receive any of, is the backdrop that the public is cherished. The public comes first. The public, no matter who they are. They're up here, they're cherished. That and the Constitution should be the backdrop for everything that we do. I found the exact opposite at my academy. It just seemed like, okay, the public is just violators, they're just shitheads. They're the violators, they're almost like the enemy. You come out of there and you get these young guys with this us versus them. It's almost ingrained in their head yeah that okay.
Speaker 2:Well, I guess everyone out there is going to be against me.
Speaker 1:Try to hurt me, yeah, but none of none of that was trained to me and I really I kind of sniffed that out pretty pretty quickly, yeah, and that's the weird, that's the hard balance to do, because you do need to train your guys up here for the worst case scenario. So when they do because we always when we train, when we get out we're as fresh and sharp as we're probably ever going to be in our career and then we drop down Like we digress because we're not doing those training scenarios and all that stuff all the time anymore. So I like the concept of training way up here. It's worked for the military for generations and in policing you do need to be ready and you do need to understand and know when it's time to be a warrior or a guardian or whatever term you want to use, because I've seen too many cops get hurt because they're trying to de-escalate, de-escalate, get hurt because they're trying to deescalate, deescalate, deescalate, deescalate, and they didn't realize that moment was gone. That was way gone.
Speaker 1:You needed to be way up here and you weren't ready for it. So I understand the need to be up here, but that needs to be also right there with encouraging exactly what you're talking about. Who did you swear your oath to? What did you swear your oath for? You didn't get to pick and choose who you swore that to. Right, it's to everybody. That's out there and that's why you know I get family members that are like well, I can't believe that you were so nice to that guy. After he did what he did. He's in cuffs, it's over with. We did what you think of it, just like you would think of a doctor. A doctor is going to save any and everybody. They don't give a shit if it's hitler on the bed. If it's santa claus on the bed, they're going to save them. That's what they swore an oath to do.
Speaker 2:That's their hit and there's too much fast and loose with that, and that's one of my biggest problems with police work these days. Um, I, I remember a perfect example. This was years ago and you know how you're in those, those, those private facebook pages that are cop only pages. Yeah, I remember being so. I don't participate in those anymore. I, I really I remember.
Speaker 2:Here's a perfect example it's an echo chamber oh my gosh, yeah, I, I, I remember there was a scenario. Someone posted an article or something about a chief of police that there was a child killer in his city and the chief of police was there when they apprehended him and he beat the heck out of the offender and everybody on this page is like, oh way to go, chief, congratulate them. And I'm like reading all this and it's just disgusting. Like dude, he, he should be charged and in the cell right next to this guy. Now, what makes him any different if he, if he can't do, and as hard as you want, to do something to someone who hurt a child? We swore an oath not to do that we don't punish people and to see it encouraged and act like, okay, well, in this situation, it would be okay. It's not a job to ever punish. Yeah, and that oath you swore it was to be a professional and to to uh honor the constitution and uh, cruel and unusual punishment is is an antithesis to what you swore to uphold.
Speaker 1:So that makes you a disgrace like yep, and and that's where I I push back on people all the time where I'm like we are held to a higher standard. Yes, just because you're not holding yourself to a higher standard doesn't mean I'm not going to. And so when, when we talk about this crap and people, you know people will send me videos of cops doing bad stuff and like, well, they're really holding themselves to a higher standard, and you know they're they're being a little trollish. I understand where they're coming from. They're frustrated, like, oh, where's your higher standard here, where's your higher standard there? I'm like listen, I can't control what everybody else does, but I can control what I do. I can control what's going on in my little fishbowl.
Speaker 1:I can tell you as a street Sergeant, on midnights, my guys don't do that. My guys are encouraged. Every day, every roll call, we talk about making a traffic stop. What if they don't want to give their ID? We're going over these things and I tell them I'm like what if you got to get in a fight with them? Okay, the cuffs are on. Now what? We dust them off, sarge, we get them help. That's it. That's all I need. That's what I want from you.
Speaker 2:It's nothing personal, it's just business and that's exactly how you. What makes the. That should be every single time. There's no exceptions to that. You are a professional, don't matter what the situation is, you handle it right. Yeah, no emotion, Yep, and be respectful.
Speaker 1:I mean.
Speaker 2:I've arrested. I've been busted down doors for murders more times than I can count. Arrested them like puffed them up. Are you good brother? All right, let's go. We're them like puffed them up. Are you good brother? All right, let's go. We're gonna go for a ride and it's off you. They didn't. If they, even if they did, resist and there's a fight, it's okay. You're good brother.
Speaker 1:Their safety and their, their health comes way, it's, it's utmost, no matter who you are well, and if that's a concept that you can't get behind, you're not ready for this yet.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying you can't learn that. You can learn it. I absolutely think you can learn it, but you're not ready for this yet. I'm not saying you can't learn that. You can learn it. I absolutely think you can learn it, but you're not ready for it yet. And that's why I look back at me. When I'm 18, 21, I would have told you I'm ready to be a cop. Then I wasn't. I was not. I was not ready to be a cop at that age.
Speaker 1:And even now, you know, I feel like like to this day, I feel like, oh man, I'm really in a stride in my policing, like I feel like I'm, I'm really getting it now. Fuck, I've been in it 18 years. I should have really felt that way earlier in my career, but I didn't. And and I have I have gone in this rollercoaster ride through my career. You know where, at the beginning, I was caught up in that that echo chamber crap, because all my friends were there. I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, cool, yeah, yeah, you got that guy. All right, cool, you know. And I'm like all right, yeah, what are we doing? We're getting Oakley sunglasses. Let's go get Punisher tattoos with a thin blue line through their face. I didn't really do that, guys. Oh my gosh, I'm joking.
Speaker 1:I got a removal guy that I've sent you, but you know what I mean. Like that's like, and you're hanging out with with these new cops, you're a new cop and you're all hanging out and you're all talking cop stuff all the time. And then something hit me and I'm just like, oh my god, like it's the same story over and over and over. Like I gotta get out of this, I gotta, I gotta balance myself. And I would balance myself with people back home. And so you got to. Yeah, so I was constantly you know I'm in a different state but I would reach out and I'm like, oh, this is kind of what we did. And they'd be like that's fucked up, man. And I'm like what do you mean? It's fucked up. Like well, think like you would have never done that. Like here, like think about it. And I'm like, oh shit, yeah, you're kind of right. Like, yeah, okay, and that's when. That's when it started to hit me.
Speaker 1:You know, it's probably three years into my career where I was like I need something to bring me back level where I was at, because I'm I'm getting too caught up in in in this policing stuff and and I'm losing my I don't want to say my humanity, but I'm losing my sense of why and where I came from, because it was so good. I wasn't used to that. It was so like the cops were great. You know where I was at now, like everybody was, and I'm like, oh man, yeah, and we're catching real bad guys. And I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, but then you're forgetting all that stuff that made you who you were and what you're doing. I'm like I got to remember this stuff.
Speaker 1:And so I got to bring that voice back out. So that's so funny man just doing this career as long as we've done. And for you, like, once you and I got connected, I started looking at some of your older stuff and seeing where you're at now. I'm like he's growing too. It isn't just me, we're both growing like we continue to grow in what we're doing, so it's pretty cool, um fortunately, I I never had to deal with um being apart like I've.
Speaker 2:My family's always kept me ground. My family and people that I grew up with, they, they kept me grounded.
Speaker 1:I never really, but you didn't leave it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I did, I did yeah that had been tough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that that it disconnected me. I started to lose touch and and I'll get people now to this day they're like why do you have, why do you have all these people from flint or whatever? They hate cops and they're all over your stuff. I'm like because they keep me grounded. Yeah, I don't, don't remember you. Yeah, I'm like these are the people that I grew up around. Like, don't look up their criminal history, you know, and so that type of thing. I got away from it. I think that's where you and I are different. You went right back to it where I didn't, and so that's a crazy story like how that actually worked out.
Speaker 2:When I get back from the academy, I remember that I, uh I wasn't welcomed at all by the PD they by your department.
Speaker 1:No, they hired you right. Yeah, yeah, did you go to an academy where people from all different PDs okay? So can you? Okay, so can you kind of explain that? Because there's some people that they don't know that concept. They think, like me, the academy I went to where I'm at now, it's just for that department.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, no, mine was a state academy, it was for people. There was troopers, they call them cadets. They have their own class, but all the mixed cops, the counties and the city cops, all were in the same group together. So there was cops from everywhere in my academy, in my class and you just bunk with them military style. Okay cool In the same bed right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:The same bedroom that smelled smelling there.
Speaker 1:It was horrible. I know some of your people are going to be listening to this. They'll be like oh yeah, they'll be like Martin. You was in the same bed with another dude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah, I was in a lot of beds with a lot of other dudes. Man, Don't remind me.
Speaker 1:Okay, so doing that, you get to your department and they didn't know who they hired.
Speaker 2:A lot of the guys knew of me and who I was around all the time and who my family was, and and uh, Cause you went to the city that you grew up in, yeah yeah. And so I was one of the few from my city policing my city. I'm looking at these guys, I'm like you guys are like you ain't from here, You're not, you're not my city. But at the same time, they judged me and I was not welcome at all and that was a rough time for me, Damn yeah.
Speaker 1:How did they make you not feel welcome?
Speaker 2:Rumors. When I started, I got cursed out my first day. What am I going to do? What am I going to say to somebody, to a senior officer who wants to get in my face yeah, because of something that he heard that I did, but I never did and what? I'm going to knock this dude out and just lose everything right now.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So that was a hard pill to swallow and that was 21 years ago. I still feel some sort of way about it, but I had some people tell me but shout out to who he's. He's the deputy chief Now, the guy who was my first FTO. We had a talk and he went to bat for me. He squashed it all. He's like dude. Nobody ever said anything about Thornton. He set the record straight and I thank him to this day. That was tough for me to swallow.
Speaker 2:The very first day I walked, or one of the first days I walk in one of those older guys he's not there anymore, obviously he comes up to me and say hey, you know, I heard you hung out with so-and-so and he's referring to a guy that raised me, he protected me, he helped me pretty much my whole childhood. He goes oh yeah, he's a piece of shit and I'm like dude, if he breaks the law, handle it. But like, really, where's all that anger come from? Right, you don't know this dude. This dude is a hundred times more cooler than you are. I'll tell you that right now. Yeah, and I that really they.
Speaker 1:It really alienated me at first yeah, it's hard to separate again, if you're boy scott especially, it's hard to separate that just because somebody commits a crime doesn't mean they're a bad person. That's a hard concept for some people to swallow. And I'm like listen, I know some dudes that have done some dumb stuff. They'll tell you did some dumb stuff. Either they were high when they did it, desperate when they did it. They're not bad people, they just got caught up and did some dumb stuff. And they they own it.
Speaker 1:And guess what? Every bad thing I've ever done, any stupid thing I've ever done, has made me a better person. And I think that's the same way to look at some people that you would call a piece of shit. Um, now do I think there are some heinous people, some evil people out there, for sure, for sure. One of my buddies on the department, matt pierce. He had a absolute piece of shit guy that shot him up like seven times and tried to do an execution shot. Now, luckily god had his back. I mean literally stood over him while he was down and out. After he'd been shot up by the same guy, tried to do an execution shot to the face. You tell me how he didn't die from that that bullet traveled around his face and then out his back instead of going through like you would think. And so there is some evil people out there, for sure, but a lot of. I would say. The majority of the things we deal with is just people a victim of circumstance. You think that's?
Speaker 2:right, my wife taught me and uh no, she didn't teach me, but she always reiterates this. She says no matter what people are doing, or their attitude, or their hatred, it's coming from somewhere.
Speaker 2:She said, let's just point out matt you are, you are angry, young man, because it came from somewhere and if you can see that and understand that you I'm not saying you're going to have to hug every dangerous person out there, but you look at it a little bit differently. Okay, they're not mad at me, they're mad at this uniform. They're not hating me personally, but it's coming from somewhere and you got it at the end of the day. So it helps. You look at people a little bit somewhere and image you got at the end of the day, so it helps you look at people a little time.
Speaker 1:Yep, let me get this idiot real quick. Uh, oh, yeah, you're good brother. Yeah, for the for those out there listening um, we were talking with, uh, detective matt thornton and, um, we are discussing what makes police good or bad and and and the things that factor in behind that. But, matt, besides, you know one of the things I want to point out for those that can only hear this they don't actually see the, the clips and stuff like that is one. We really appreciate you wearing a detroit tiger shirt again no, no, no, no, no, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:There you go da. That's one of my guy's clothing lines. He's A.
Speaker 1:He had good influence.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you that he had the best influence, he straight stole that D right off the bat.
Speaker 1:That's the best Detroit Tigers D I've seen in a long time. I like it. I'm glad that you're representing. It's nice of you Honored and I was surprised you did not wear your wife's shirt today.
Speaker 2:Not today. No, I think that was at the at the laundromat right now.
Speaker 1:So if you guys are wondering what the hell we're talking about, about his wife's shirt um, matt actually had a shirt made by his wife that has her image all over it with her name and, uh, one day he wore it on one of the live streams we were doing. I'm like, I thought it was a band shirt, like a band member. I'm like to neil, uh, who's that? That's a band, right, and we get to talking about it turns out, no, it's his wife his wife made a shirt just for her yeah, she made me wear it that night.
Speaker 1:That's hilarious oh shit, all right, sir, so you get into being a cop, you will, will fast forward, you. You you're doing the policing thing, you're learning, doing your stuff, and every cop goes through this. I kind of wanted, I want to deal in, you know, dealing with gangs. Oh no, I want to do dope, I want to do canine, I want to do all these different things. What was your? What was?
Speaker 2:your draw, my biggest draw was in at the time it was crack. Cocaine was huge in my. I mean, it was everywhere, yeah, in my city, and I was when you're, when you're young, in your career. I was throwing on the night shift. So, um, that was it. My draw was, my target was okay, you, you, you find out who's selling where you go, and mostly the customers are the ones that you can go and you make a stop or you do something. But I didn't want to. I wanted to get them help, but at the same time, okay, we can get info and we can go after the bigger picture here and that was my main goal, because that was destroying my city. I could tell you Crack was a huge epidemic until heroin hit and then it just turned heroin, yeah, but that was, that was huge. My, my city was a, it was an open-air drug market.
Speaker 1:It was really, really, really, really bad okay so were you doing that from patrol or did you get into?
Speaker 2:an actual narc unit no, I was doing it from patrol and the narc guys just loved me because I would, just, I would give them so many, so many good. Uh, good good leads to go after hell, yeah I hated charging people for that. But I mean, I got, I got family members and and who struggle with addiction to crack and heroin and and I love them. They're no, I'm no better than any of them and I know what, what, uh, how that poison is.
Speaker 1:It's terrible, yeah, it's terrible absolutely yes, oh my gosh, I'm a big fan of the idea of instead and this is hard for me to really put into words without being an idiot I don't think we should just legalize all drugs. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is it's really hard for me to make drugs in itself a crime. I want them committing a crime and then, if they're on drugs or using drugs, okay, use that as an enhancement, just like you would with you know anything else, you know aggravated whatever, versus just assault, like you're using a weapon in an assault, now it's aggravated assault. Well, if you're committing a crime while you've got dope on you and you're high on drugs, okay, let's, let's enhance it. But, um, maybe that'll work, but I don't getting people just because they're addicted to something like that's yeah, it's that's.
Speaker 2:That's rough, because I I'm a huge believer. Just give them some help. What is? What is? What is jail going to do for them?
Speaker 1:Right, I agree. What is it going to do? Um and again, if we're, if we're, encountering you because you're committing a crime and you're high, like okay, that makes like I get it. But I know a lot of people that I've come across. They're just homeless and high and they're not doing anything, but they got crack on them or they got meth. Meth was the really big one while I was going out, that's big up here now.
Speaker 2:It took a while to get up here, but it's here now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's one of the conversations that we need to start having in the criminal justice system too. Is is like why, why do we keep just locking people up for, um, medical issues, addiction issues and things like that? Yeah, that that's a. That's a conversation worth having. I'm not dismissing, um the the criminal side of that, because I do think there's a lot of violence that comes because of dope. So I don't know.
Speaker 2:And you can sift through. You can see who's the actual one, who's just one of the things that I always do when I arrest an addict. Back in the day, I would always, without a doubt, while we're in the booking room, I would ask I know you hate this life what made you start this? And nine times out of ten, they were prescribed an opioid.
Speaker 1:Oh, really, yeah, oh, I've never done that. I mean, I've asked a few people like, hey man, how'd you go down this road? But I never really got into the source of what triggered it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because we were such an open-air market in my city that that people would come from three or four cities away to come to school over there. Yeah, because we were just known for our dope damn um yeah, it was bad um, we were like a mini, uh, a mini drug store.
Speaker 1:It was, yeah, supplier yeah, he was the, he was the supply out there, yeah you're out there looking for the supplier. It's your whole city bro.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. Yeah, it was bad. For a while. There's been a lot of agencies come in and help, but yeah, we were. When I first started we were very short staffed in in our city it was. It was, uh, it's not made bearish. That's one thing they get twisted with with. Small city, smaller city, uh cops that we somehow we don't do what big city cops do, like that, that, that uh, it could be farther from the truth, depending on what city you're in my city is tied to two other smaller cities and they all interlink.
Speaker 2:Like, like. We share criminals and the homicides and the shootings and the drugs. Like it's, it's, it's rampant yeah, and so we do, and it's only what's what I always say to big city cops. They like to get on there and troll me a lot, the big city cops, and like bro, you've got 200 soldiers around the corner, it's four of us trying to handle this madness here.
Speaker 1:You kidding me yeah, and you have to do a lot more than what we have to do in a big city. Oh, yeah, you guys have you do the investigation. You go, you find the evidence, you go to the gas station, pull the video, you go, you do all these things in a big city. I go there, I show up, I take the information from the immediate people and then I pass it on to the detective. Oh, we're so jealous of you and that's that's it so we gotta work.
Speaker 2:I mean, we've worked patrol level. We work, except for homicides which we call people in for, like shootings and all that. So we work those. I work triple shootings all by myself yeah and it's.
Speaker 1:It's hard for people to like where I'm at. You know, I I was lucky I came from another department before I went where I'm at now and learning all these different things that people have to do, um gave me good perspective. So, um, but but in that that education-wise for officers out there that are following the same type of path that you took, that want to get into the dope game, and what do you recommend and what type of path would you train a new rookie officer I shouldn't say a rookie officer, but an officer that's got a little time under his belt, that's looking to do something more specialized, like that? How would you?
Speaker 2:guide them. I would guide them First. Number one would be the constitutionality of what you're going to come across, because a lot of this is dependent on good searches or good stops. So that's first right there.
Speaker 2:But street smarts is right after that, and that's not always easily taught. It's kind of something that some of them are just born with or just from their life experience they can get. But you got to know when to to sense, not just when to act, but when not to act. Um, you get. If you get a guy with no street smarts and he goes out there and he's asking consent searches from everyone, every single person, that he sounds like bro number you, you you're coming across like you're, you're, you're terrorizing the people of my city. Um, when you do that, you gotta, you gotta be selective and know when to see a cue, know when to see a key, know who you're dealing with. So I would say that's top two constitutionality and street smarts. You've got to be good at those and you got to be quick on your feet yeah, I think you brought up a good point as far as consent searches.
Speaker 1:So for those listening, you like what the fuck's a consent search? I can pull you over. Hey, your taillights out, do you mind? If I search your car Like that's a consent search, I can. I can just ask you and you can say yes, that consent and officers are not required to tell you that. So that is a lesson one-on-one. If you have given consent, you can withdraw that consent at any time. Now some departments have policy that they have to inform you of that. Hey, do I have permission to look to your car? Just so you know, you can withdraw that consent at any time. I like that policy. That's a good policy.
Speaker 2:I like educating citizens and that's kind of like a trick, that's kind of cheap. Yeah, you get someone that doesn't know them rules and they think we're obligated. So, yeah, that's actually a good policy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'll tell you a tactic that cops will use to get around that they will tell you hey, if you don't mind, you don't mind. You know you don't have nothing to hide, right? So we, we got a lot of drugs in the area. We just want to make sure that you don't have any drugs or anything in your car. That's illegal. Um, do you mind if we search? And then you're going to say yes, because you're. You're trying to say you know you don't have nothing to hide or whatever. But what they're going to do is a secondary officer is going to come over and they're going to strike up a conversation with you and they're going to distract you and they're going to get you talking while you're talking to them, that's, while they're over there searching and looking through your car and doing all that stuff. Know your rights. You don't have to let people search your car if you don't have anything in there?
Speaker 2:no, don't let me ask your car, tell them no, the other rights to know is you don't have to answer any of them. Questions in the first place, right?
Speaker 1:because you can plead the uh one, two, three, four, five. Yeah, exactly, there are so many amendments in the constitution and that's why I love you, brother.
Speaker 2:You know how many cops would want to punch us in the face for saying this out loud. But no, do not talk to the police listen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't talk to the cops I tell my own family that if I'm telling that, I'm going to tell all the rest of you. If a cop wants to ask you questions, you tell them no, I don't answer questions.
Speaker 2:My 16-year-old daughter is standing right there. Jamie girl, don't ever answer a cop's question, ever. Provide your ID. I don't answer questions. There you go.
Speaker 1:Now what I do tell people. I'm like, listen, like listen, if you're trying to help out on a case, so you're like, yeah, I just watched the guy get murdered. I don't, it's not right. Yeah, well, that's a different thing. But if you're driving down the road and you get pulled over speeding and this guy wants to ask you you know a million questions.
Speaker 1:No, I don't answer questions like you're either going to write me a ticket or you're not now, if you're a people if you're a people person, if you're like me and you feel like you can talk to people and just lower their guard or whatever, because a lot of times that's what you're trying to do with the cops anyway Okay, press your luck, do what you feel you can do, but for everybody else, no, don't waste your time, don't waste your breath.
Speaker 2:And you got to pick and choose how you do that too. Like I didn't just go up and any time of day or any general person and just start popping questions. I just saved it If it was business if I stopped before an infraction, it was business. But if it's 3.30 in the morning and you're from three cities away on this block at this time by this house, I'm going to ask you some questions. I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't, and uh but so. So that's how you got it. That's how you got to treat it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, and and this goes to the people that are like, well, cops shouldn't be, uh, asking these questions or whatever. If they pulled me over for this, that's all they should be worried about. No, I don't agree with that either.
Speaker 2:It's circumstantial every case is different. Yeah, and I think you'd change your mind if you stood over as many dead bodies from fentanyl as as as I have? Yeah, yeah it's, it's you, you, really you. You have to do something to combat it yep.
Speaker 1:Um, where I'm at, the area that I work right now, is very high profile and what I mean by that is there's thousands of people on the street at one time bar closes, there's a ton of bars, there's a lot of people, there's a huge risk for serious casualties and we have shootings, we have stabbings. That happens every year. So for me and my team and my mission is to prevent these shootings from happening, these shootings from happening. Now, that's very weird to do when you are a 2A person. I am a very pro-Second Amendment guy but at the same time I have to criminally profile and look for things and try to prevent these shootings from happening.
Speaker 1:So we're out on foot, we're looking in public areas and things that may have people a little up in arms sometimes. It's a fine line to walk, but it is a necessary evil. And I don't mean evil as in the police are being evil. I mean that there's people out there that want to do harm. There's gangbangers. You can attest that their whole goal is to go down there. It's a territorial thing for drug deals and they will absolutely get violent. We have to prevent that violence for the greater good.
Speaker 1:So we are looking for guns, we're looking for gang members and we're looking for all these things. So we ask those questions hey, you know, hey, we pulled you over cause you're, you, you've got tint that's so illegal, and you know, and you're down here and uh, so we'll pull over for your tent, we're checking your tent, and then we're gonna start asking hey, you got any weapons in the car, anything like that. You know, we're checking your id. Oh, look, it's a documented gang member thing, you know. And then you go down that path. Those people could easily shut us down. We don't.
Speaker 2:We hope they don't yeah, and like you said, it's, it's got to be strategic. It's got to be strategic, it does and and number one, it's got to be done respectfully.
Speaker 1:Yes, and and you know, you know and this is a hard part for people to get behind is like you. You pull someone over and they've got, you know, 13s, ms13, crip tattoos and all this stuff all over them and you're like, all right, well, there's sign number one. I'm not the best detective in the world, but that's a sign. And so now you got to go from there and it's hard for people that are so constitutionally driven. Like you pulled him over for a tent, that's what you should be dealing with. I'm like I can't. I don't agree with that. I got to do police work. I got to try to be proactive because we've found AKs and fully auto, you know Glock, switched up guns and stuff like that on these stops and I'm like man, we just prevented a shooting.
Speaker 2:I feel a lot of different ways about the pretextual stops when you dive deeper, a lot of different ways about the pretextual stops when you dive deeper. I just strongly urge to do it correctly, do it strategically and don't just do it blanketly, because that's what makes us look terrible.
Speaker 1:It seems like terrorism on the citizens, and that goes into your articulation as a cop. What drew you to this car? Why are you? Okay, the tint was really dark. Okay, that's a that's a good stop. When I walked up to the car, the guy had tattoos that I recognized with a local gang, the Crips and I'm being generic guys. So now we got the Crips. Okay, I asked the guy you know if he's still affiliated, and then I checked his information in the system. His license had been suspended for two years. He had two local warrants. Okay, like, I'm like that's a good stop, yeah, now, we're really getting into it.
Speaker 1:Versus, I pulled over a young black male who's I'm just throwing this out dressed like Urkel, and I'm like hey, what are you doing?
Speaker 2:who's?
Speaker 1:I'm just throwing this out, dressed like Urkel, and I'm like, hey, what are you doing down here? I was like I'm trying to find some ladies down here, man.
Speaker 2:Like know the difference. I need more. Yeah, exactly, you need to have a little bit of common sense and articulation on why you're doing what you're doing. The reason I'm so big on that is because I run those organizations in my city and it's 95% young black males and I get some of them are the greatest kids ever and I hear these stories about so-and-so. Kept me on the stop, he kept asking to search my car and I know this kid is a great kid and you just have to do it right and do it tactfully.
Speaker 1:Yep, can you?
Speaker 2:mention, like the latest organization that you went and hung out with Home Away From Home, home Away From Home there you go.
Speaker 1:I didn't want to say it. I wanted to make sure you were cool with it, of course. Can you explain what?
Speaker 2:that nonprofit is. Home Away From Home is me and my partner, oscar. Oscar's a great dude. He was in my last video the one that you produced so perfectly, oh my gosh with the Chappelle skit in it. That was the greatest ever. You sent me that and I was just head over heels. So Home Away From Home. Oscar Parham he's a great friend of mine. We got to get him on here one of these days. Hell yeah, brother. He's from my city, grew up there, he did a 30 year stint for a double murder that he did not do, and that's he got clemency. He's, he got released. The most wonderful dude really ever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, are the innocence project or anything.
Speaker 2:Oh, he's part of a couple different projects, but I believe it was a state senator that helped him get get finally get clemency wrote, wrote it himself. Okay, from 89 to 2019, he served 30 years and this guy and you would never know it seeing his attitude he is like the most wonderful. We're going to Cubs game Saturday. Matter of fact, me and Oscar, I'm sorry, hey, we're going to win. Lucky we're not playing Texas.
Speaker 1:I beat Texas. I don't give a shit, I like Detroit baby.
Speaker 2:Okay, my bad, my bad. I always see where that Texas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're my second. They're my backup team. I got you yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we, oscar, we started an organization he did, and then I joined his team. We mentor youth in the street and we just we invite them in, we take care of them, we he's got a story to tell them. We give them life lessons, we give them jobs, we get them funding where they need and we form a brotherhood. And that's why I've been so busy. I've been able to get on a lot of the lives lately, because it goes like three to four days a week and it goes till late.
Speaker 2:So we have these kids come in and we've sat them down street beefs over $40. Okay, we'll sit down, I'll give you the $40. We're going to sit down and talk about and how we're not going to shoot each other for this and just things like that that we we've just started in my city. It's a lot of the kids. My other organization, my father's business, is kind of that's more of a, that's more of a biblical based organization. Home away from home is it's still based on because Oscar's a believer still based on biblical principles, but we're more of a like practical, get these guys some, some help, that they need practical help. So it's, it is a wonderful thing and that's where we started. I'm going to start doing the interviews like we did for that video, because there are so many fascinating kids in there. Yeah, it's just really, really cool. So we got a lot of big things coming from that organization.
Speaker 1:Now in that organization, are you getting what's the age range?
Speaker 2:We basically from anywhere from 10 to 24.
Speaker 1:10 to 24. Okay, you got adults and all that stuff too.
Speaker 2:Yep, we got some our adult mentors. Some guys are getting out of jail that that are helping mentor the kids right with us, cause they got a story to tell it and kids from kids from the neighborhood will only listen to certain voices. For the most part, they'll listen to me to a point, um, because I mean I do have a good reputation in my city, but I'm still the police at the end of the day, so there's different voices that that we can give them and they, them and they just, they all approach me. They love me to death anyway, um, so it's just a great dynamic. They wait that we have. We have a culinary class that that oscar does three days a week for kids from 16 to 24. That's cooking for the lay culinary. They had to google that one stupid what they do. They'll make the food for us at night and then when I get there after work, then we eat good too. We eat good things, we hoop, we do rounds, we circle it up, and it's really cool stuff.
Speaker 1:Our dream is to get our own building. I just got into hooping again, like I grew up balling Like I love it, me too and then I joined the military in 06. And then at our base we had like a league and, believe it or not, I was balling with my chaplain. My chaplain was a hooper from Ohio. So we beefed because I'm from Michigan and Michigan and Ohio notoriously hate each other but Chaplain Wells, so shout out to Jeremy Wells. But, bro, he was so good, I mean, and he had thick Coke bottle glasses. I mean, he was so good, I mean, and he had thick coke bottle glasses. I mean he was the biggest nerd short. But man, like he had my number, most of the time had my number and, uh, I stopped.
Speaker 1:I I basically quit playing ball after 2010. I hadn't played and it just it wasn't convenient. I didn't have a local spot to go to. That was easy. And then I just did this latest tour for my military time and where my, my lodging was with where the gym was, was literally right across the street, just walked to it and then I they had a hoop and they had a basketball like court in there and I was like, let me grab a ball. I'll just I'll warm up with that, and then I'll go lift. And then, bro, I came back. So quick.
Speaker 2:I was like oh my god, I was like I missed this.
Speaker 1:I missed playing. It was rough at like the first 10 minutes of just like a bunch of air balls. I couldn't lay the ball up where the shit? But like, yeah, dude, I miss playing ball. So, um, I'm starting to get back into it. I gotta find where I can come play here in in my area, because I just never really cared. Um, but yeah, I want to, I want to get back into balling, so I'm that's cool.
Speaker 2:You want to hear a secret? Oh, I was a. I was a. I was a good ball player growing up. I was a starting point guard at my high school my senior year and I'm officially retired I tried to play about a month ago. I got a tear in my meniscus. I'm done.
Speaker 1:I'm done, oh no.
Speaker 2:I had to go get an MRI, like two weeks ago. It's hard.
Speaker 1:I had to purposely like try to slow my roll, like and I was only shooting alone, I didn't even, I wasn't even playing a game with people. I was like I had to slow my roll because I was, like, you know, trying to like do all this stuff that my muscles just kind of take over. Yeah, I was like, if I keep doing this, like I'm going to be hurting and or tear something. So I was pretty careful in what I did, but yeah.
Speaker 2:I get. So I was pretty careful in what I did. But yeah, I get what you're saying. Dude, like you gotta be at our age, well, especially your age. Yeah, I'm old man. Yeah, you old as shit boxing is. Boxing is the safest sport I ever did, because all I do is glide my heart. My head is hard. I don't have to do much, much, much movement in a 15-foot ring yeah, especially when you get good, the movement is minimal, like I.
Speaker 1:I learned that like you, just just I don't have to move my head very much that's why you see some of these unathletic big fat guys that are the greatest boxers, right, yeah, because they know how to move. No, you're right. You're right, um, okay, so I I did want to make sure we gave a shout out to your nonprofit. We talked about your specialty, um, you was an art guy, so that's cool.
Speaker 2:How long?
Speaker 1:how long did you? Would you say you really went after that?
Speaker 2:Oh, that was my whole patrol career. I was on the street for 11 years, but then that's when I maneuvered into the detective bureau.
Speaker 1:Okay, a lot of mostly violent crimes in there okay, so going into that, um, you ended up your career. Now you're not.
Speaker 2:You mean, you're still technically a detective yeah, why I uh, I never in my, my pd I fall under, still fall under the detective. I don't know how they they branch things out as an sro. Okay, I still fall under the. The detective lieutenant is my direct boss and I still work. And then in the summertime I work with the bureau when I do cases. So, yeah, they still consider me a detective and all these haters that I was. I don't do real police work. Oh my gosh, I still get that every single day.
Speaker 1:I mean, they're not wrong, but anyway.
Speaker 2:I love it. I've never been happier than school. It is so awesome to be in there.
Speaker 1:I love it. So here, I don't know if you and I have discussed this before, but as an SRO, I would love to see a registry movement from parents to the SRO. Here's where I think an SRO's duty should move to, and this is a generalization, guys. So anybody listening like there's a lot of departments that already do this Probably I'm just this is me speaking out loud. We need to know our kids' social media accounts, so when a parent enrolls their child, they should. That is a fact.
Speaker 2:Hold on one second. Let me grab this real quick. Let me shut this door real quick. Sorry, I think he got in the kid's room.
Speaker 1:Okay, you're good brother. So if you guys don't know this, matt's dog is a little terrorist and is constantly getting into stuff, so he has to get up and deal with this dog constantly. It's funny. I love it. He's a patient man, very patient. I don't even know what he has, I don't know. There's one of them.
Speaker 2:Hi buddy, I have a 16-month-old.
Speaker 1:Rottweiler oh, you got a Rottie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, yeah, he's a fabulous dog, but he is a pain in the butt I grew up with.
Speaker 1:Rotties, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:That's my third one.
Speaker 1:My dad had them. They're the biggest protectors ever.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Good for my girls. You're saying the registry for.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay. So here was my idea. Parents, when they register their kid, part of the little documents that they fill out is all of the social media accounts that they know of for their kids and that goes to the SRO. And it's not that the SRO is going to be sitting there checking on every single kid. The SRO, if they're doing their job, they already know who their red flag kids are, who their kids that are high risk for problems, and that's what they should be looking out for.
Speaker 1:Or if another student comes up and is like, hey, this dude was talking about like possibly bringing a gun to school or bringing a knife to school or whatever it is, um, then they can go and look at their, their little packet and be like oh, little johnny smith, let me see what his social media accounts.
Speaker 1:And they look at the social media accounts. School's got a big thing coming tomorrow and they're like, oh shit, like, because that is part of the problem and we can look up so much as a cop, some social media accounts and try to link ourselves. That takes a while, but if it truly is going to be a partnership between the community and the cops and we're trying to keep our schools safe. We don't want a uvalde thing happening. Obviously that was an outside person coming in, so that's a little different, but, um, anything that involves a school shooter, if it's going to be another student, that's going to give us the best chance, because I think, more times than not, the social media is probably the biggest indicator of any problems that's going to happen, especially with a red flag student, so that is.
Speaker 2:That's a brilliant idea, that that needs. I'm gonna actually I mean, I mean to actually run it, because you talked about that, you mentioned that to me before like I'm gonna run that by the district asap because, um, I actually teach a internet safety class for rich wistocki's retired detective from from around here. Okay, he runs a consulting firm now and that's one of his classes, but I believe that he's got all the numbers 75. Yeah, kids that do those say it somehow on social media before they do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's been my experience and I'm not.
Speaker 2:He wants to meet you. I'll text you his info.
Speaker 1:Hell, yeah, yeah, yeah I I'm not an uh, like I said, I'm not an sro, I I just. For me, every case that I've seemed to come across, there's been some indicator on social media and I was like shit, that's their life, because at that age, at a younger age, their life is in their phone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if parents and that's another thing that us as SROs or as cops that we can really do is like listen, it's really going to be hard for you at a certain point to be in your child's life. That's just the way that it goes. As a parent Like you can be as involved as you as you can try to be, but they're all. They don't have to let you in, they're only going to let you into so many things. But one thing you do have control over is that internet access and and what they can see. So find out their social media accounts and then maybe that can be another part of his class is like figuring out if your children are hiding accounts from you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, that is part of the class.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as I say, I don't know how to do that my kids can be hiding accounts from me. I don't know how to find it out.
Speaker 2:Rich is that he's the genius at that. He's like he does the training for all the detectives around the state, but he's really really good at that His presentation. That it's easy for me. He gives me the chicago public schools okay and I just I go in there and uh present to the to the parents. It's so easy for me because I'm just telling his doing his presentation, but in my own way, right and uh it's really, really fun.
Speaker 1:so you know what's crazy is I know we've got, we've, we've probably got about a half hour left and you gotta, you gotta cut off time. But you and I, when we talk, we could keep going and go for days and cause, as we're sitting here talking, I'm like man, I got to get back on point and I'm like but there's all these other things I want to talk to you about. Ah, I love it. Okay. So SROs, um, doing that, what has been? What have you? What have you learned as an SRO that you would like to pass on to police and parents?
Speaker 2:Let's see. You have to be a cop last as an SRO. This is to pass on to police. You have to be a mentor, first a uncle, a silly uncle first, and then you, you, you got the teachers back and then you're a cop at last resort. That's what I would tell the cops.
Speaker 1:And stop dancing on video man, stop it pouring balls I'll give tillman I think that's his name that black officer out of um california, I think he's out of cal. It's either Till or Tillman or something like that, your boy could dance.
Speaker 2:He probably can.
Speaker 1:He's the only one. They did a whole choreographed thing with all the students and it was amazing. He took time to learn with those students and they all loved him and trusted him. I'm about that life.
Speaker 2:They try to get me to do that all the time. No, I don't dance.
Speaker 1:You should have thrown like a boxing tournament, yeah there you go All right. Who can take out the cop? Here's your chance.
Speaker 2:So that's what I say Be a cop at last resort, because these kids will trust you so much more, especially in the times with social media. They want to see if they see you as human first. I don't think I've ever even raised my voice in three years as sro.
Speaker 1:I can't picture you being a a loud person no, I'm just.
Speaker 2:The kids love me. My, my day is spent giving high fives and and knuckle and fist bumps all day and then taking the ones that fight and we go sit down and settle it and you wouldn't know how to take a call anymore, would you? No, no, not at all. All I'm useless on the street now. Give me some kids and they'll have to fill up my organization.
Speaker 1:I tell my guys all the time I'm like I can catch bad guys all day long and I do, I'll be out there with them and I'll have that car right there and then we'll go pull it over and for sure shit, we find, you know, an illegal gun, a bunch of dope, you know, gang member, all this shit. And they're like, damn, sarge, that was good. I'm like, yeah, but I'm done like I don't know. I couldn't take him out of the jail, I couldn't book him in, I don't know. I don't know the process to any of that stuff anymore, so complicated these days. I know I'm like I, you got to print out all this stuff. I don't know how to do all that yeah, I would have no clue yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So all right, sir. Well, I want to save this last half hour because I know we're gonna burn. We're gonna burn through this so quick. But guys, matt and I, we we got connected through our mutual tactics.
Speaker 1:I I have been trying, through the Two Cops, one Donut stuff, to highlight cops doing good stuff. And that's kind of how I started out. I was like I want to highlight all we see is bad. I don't want to see just the bad, I want to see the good. I'm an optimistic person. That's just how I am. I'm wired. I want to see positive things. I don't want to be dragged down by negative and then through that.
Speaker 1:We talked about growing. You know, I'm constantly growing. I see myself like always I I started to see people were sending me videos and I'm seeing these things. I'm like, okay, there's lessons to be learned.
Speaker 1:This cop screwed up. Let me talk about that so I can educate and get on this wavelength of okay, he screwed up. Here's where he screwed up. How do we fix that? How do we make it better? I don't want to bitch about something just to bitch about it. I want to give you a fix. You know, just like you'd tell you know, in the military, let's say, don't bring a problem to me unless you got a solution. Okay, well, here's a problem, I see, here's a solution. And so I started going down that path and I think that's what linked up Matt and I Somebody somewhere pointed out like oh my God, you're like this other guy over here, and they were telling me about Matt and I'm like, well, let me look into it. And then I look up Matt and I'm like he's right, that's a good point. Oh, point. So I reached. I think I reached out to you did I reach out to you.
Speaker 2:Somebody had told me yeah about your face, so I checked out what you do. Oh my gosh, somebody else is saying a lot of the same stuff that I say yeah, so we, we linked up that way.
Speaker 1:And now, matt and I again well, I think we kind of touched on this earlier we don't see eye to eye on everything, but I think our hearts see eye to eye on everything, but I think our hearts see eye to eye exactly the same and what we're trying to accomplish. So that's where we have teamed up and that is where we're at now. So, matt, I want to ask you um what? What drew you to what I'm trying to do here and and and? Where do you see the future going with us?
Speaker 2:I think what brought me and you, what me and you see common ground is we may not agree on everything, but we do agree that there are certain things and behaviors in this profession that need to be eradicated, done with and just gone. And that's where I was like, oh, I was really, really drawn to some of your videos and what you were saying and I was honored and I reached out to a couple of guys and they vouched for you too. I don't know if I ever told you that, but they're like no, that's because you just never know, like the stories behind people. So I got really good reviews on you and what drew me to start doing this? That is what a lot of people ask me. I love it and you, I'm one of the guys that I just don't have patience for cop nonsense. I don't have patience for making excuses for bad behavior, for not honoring your oath, for treating anyone from the public disrespectfully and being unprofessional. I have no patience and I think that I think my body of work kind of stands for itself because, as much as a big mouth that I have, you would think that somebody in 20 years would come out of woodworks and say Thornton is a hypocrite, but it's never happened because I walk the walk. I don't say these things and if you went to my city and asked the people, they would. I actually can't even talk about things locally very much anymore. I got to do it on a broader YouTube scale or a broader TikTok scale. I've tried to do things locally and there was actually some people that came at me that the streets were defending me so hard on there I was afraid I was going to have something maybe happen to someone that was talking about me. That's why I don't do much local and I don't know how to feel about that. I'm like man, I got some loyalty from these streets but I don't want nothing Like I don't need this. So if you look at my local stuff, it's really my family stuff and I don't put too much of calling out cops.
Speaker 2:What started this? Really? I, from day one, I never really felt that connection. I never like like we were talking about earlier, when you felt, uh, kind of this draw and you kind of lost because you were far away from your roots and where you came from.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I never really got that and so, from from the get-go I I stayed grounded and I really didn't appreciate, um, a lot of the the us versus them stuff that I had to come and deal with, and I really handled it bad, like I didn't feel I felt like a stranger in a strange land having this uniform on, but at the same time my kids were proud of me. I had a career, I don't have to live check to check anymore. I have like a. So I was like kind of stuck and part of me wanted to quit. I had to be stopped and talked back into from some street cats Like no man, we need you in there. So I stayed and and and whoever is hearing this, don't get a twist. I've never done anything unethical with my friends or regarding this when I mentioned street people. I've never done anything unethical in my career.
Speaker 1:Cause, get the people, get like to get you think you're a spy, spy street gangs Stop it, stop it.
Speaker 2:So it really I never spoke on it and I took it up in the wrong way. I became an alcoholic or not.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I was functioning alcohol, but I Hell yeah brother Booze was a huge issue for me as I was sipping some whiskey booze was a huge issue for me, as I'm sipping some whiskey only a few sips so I, I, I fed that in a bad way. I, I did a lot of self-destructive things because I couldn't deal with this, this double world that I was in. Yeah, and so the main catalyst was when, one night and I wrote about this in my book when, when my mental health came to a climax and god stopped, you got a book. Yeah, I wrote a book. What, yeah, what's it called? It's called cop in crisis to cop in christ.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't know that I'll send you one hell yeah. So what? What happened was I was contemplating and you know, you know, the suicide issue in our profession is rampant. I was on basically the last stage and I was about to do it. And one night in the parking lot on shift is when it all changed and that's what I wrote about it and the craziest thing happened to me. And then, when that happened, I realized that I can take this badge that I had resentment towards because of a lot of the stuff I've seen and to go along with that policing in the city that you grew up in, having to wrestle with my friends I'd known for 30 years yeah, seeing some of them I'd known for that many years die right in front of me, dealing with people turning their back on me, stuff like that. It was all just bad Dude. That's why I couldn't do stuff like that.
Speaker 1:It was all just bad Dude that's why I couldn't do it, man. It was tough, man. I don't know how you did it.
Speaker 2:So all of that stuff that was negative, I think the Lord showed me how to use that to glorify him. So that was when I started my organization and that was when and I'm saying all that to come to this one point Okay, I was on duty but not in uniform, and I went, and I went to this place that I had to go meet with other cops and I was driving my POV because I was running late for work and I was in plain clothes and I pull up and there was two patrolmen out there and they talked to me so ridiculously bad, worst than any cop experience I've ever had in my life. They were so degrading and disgusting, cursing at me because I had pulled over to ask a question. And these dudes, like what the hell for you to? Like? Just start snapping on me, damn. And they come up to me and there was another cop that was there. They oh, that's, do you realize who you're talking to? So I, I get out. I'm like this how you talk to the people? Yeah, man, it bothered me to my core and so I got on the phone.
Speaker 2:After that I called one of their, one of the people that were work. That was a co-worker and he starts cops playing and how oh well, they're probably tired from their shit Like starts giving excuses and I'm like and it made me so disgusted. Yeah, I got on Facebook that night and I told the story and I said this is, this is something that that, no, you won't, you won't hear. This was years ago. Cops won't talk about this publicly, but the way there's so many cops talk to people is disgraceful. It's disgusting. This was before body cams. This was a long time ago, yeah, and that video kind of blew up and I got a lot of people I got to support from within the police community and from the outside.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that was when, like you know what, I had the courage enough to call it out once and that's when I just started, like man, there's so many other things I need to address, so that's what kind of how the ball got rolling and that. And then I think TikTok comes along and my cousins I didn't even know what it was and one of my biggest, one of my biggest influences I got my name a Spice Adams. I don't know if you know he's huge. He's huge on, I know the name Anthony Adams used to be a Bears player, but the funniest skits in history. So if you look at all my old TikTok skits, when it first came out I was just being silly, I'm brave, I'm on a job, but I would scatter in there things that we don't want bad cops in this profession, we don't want racist people in this profession. We don't want racist people in this profession. We, we don't. We want people that follow the constitution in this profession.
Speaker 2:And if you don't get out of here, yeah, so those videos got really, really good feedback on and I'm like it kind of transitioned from me doing you know, these silly videos are fun, but there's a bigger problem that that needs to be addressed yeah, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna, and and I I became friends with so many people that you wouldn't think I'd be friends with over that, because we have a common thing I don't care if you're if you're the biggest cop hater in the world or the biggest cop supporter. If you're true and you're authentic, you want bad policing out. Bad policing makes our job harder, puts us in danger. Bad policing is more dangerous than any gang member to me because it makes the entire, the entire public um, not, they resent us, they don't help us, they don't talk to us, they don't help us solve crimes and they hate us and want to do something to us.
Speaker 2:Um, with bad policing. So I started calling it out and it just became a thing I would do. I don't have time to make a long video, so I started doing shorts and, yeah, I ended up getting on who I got a call this week for. You do, brother. I promise I ended up getting a spot on.
Speaker 2:uh, sean paul reyes show oh, long island, yeah, this was a few years back and, um, I didn't even know who he was. To be honest with you, I I knew what auditors were, but I was. It was uh, it wasn't as prevalent, it was today and I and I was just like, okay, I'll go on the show. And it turns out I go on the show on like the next day because I was on the show.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I did really well. I mean, I told him no nonsense, me and him he's a good dude and my YouTube blew up and then it started really getting some traction.
Speaker 1:It's kind of like a movement.
Speaker 2:I call it the line stepper challenge because I don't believe in lines, red line, blue line, any line. We're all Americans, yeah.
Speaker 1:We've actually had that discussion if you guys are listening to this with Matt on our thoughts on the thin blue line, and it's funny because this is another thing that some people have it. It's the us versus them. Some people have it it's the. It's a that, it's a this. I my view on it. I don't know if it's unique, but I've told Matt this in the past.
Speaker 1:To me, the thin blue line is, if I were to die on duty tomorrow, I know that the people that I work around will make sure that my daughters go to prom. They will make sure that my daughters will be walked across the aisle. They will make sure that my daughters you know, if they have a leak in their apartment, if they have whatever they're going to take care of my family while I'm gone. And that's a thin blue line to me. It had nothing to do with the public. That's just how I always viewed what the thin blue line was. It was never ingrained in me as it's us, that line between us and evil.
Speaker 1:I learned that through my career. That that's how some people view it and you know. Okay, fair, I don't have a problem with that If you're viewing it purely as you're trying to protect innocent people, okay, cool. But then there's that's not how everybody views it. There's some people that view it as the machine, the big brother. You have to take in how other people view it because their upbringing is different. So that's when we talk about that and having those discussions, and it's important to have those discussions with citizens. When they talk about it, well, you're just part of the thin blue line club, that's it's us versus them and I'm like, well, hold on, like that's not how I view that. Yeah, and it's important to have these discussions, so I love talking about it because, in my opinion, what it what it off as things evolve with time?
Speaker 2:There's things that started off a decade ago. That doesn't mean the same thing now. In my opinion. If it started as something that was true and honest and good, I'll go in my city right now and poll. Nine people out of 10 will say no. That that means y'all don't like us. That's the thin wall that we can't break, and so. I. It's a hard question to answer for me. Personally, I don't like any lines.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's and that's and this is what I love it's like nothing has to be mutually exclusive. There's a lot of people that are like, no, it's one way or the other. No, it's really not. And that's where we need you to come to the table Everybody, not just cops, not just the citizens Like, if you can get past the point that not everything is mutually exclusive, we have a lot we can discuss. But if you're of the opinion that everything has to be one way or the other.
Speaker 2:Like man, it's really hard to have any talk you can't dig your heels and dig your heels in and just say I'm right, you're wrong and we're gonna be. We don't like each other. Now. We actually had a guy on here one time. I remember one of my first shows. He, he thin blue, my thin blue line, the, the flag meant a lot to him because of a partner that had passed. And, like man, I love you, brother, I'm happy that that represents that for you. Right? I will lovingly tell you why I think, why I think, and God bless you and why you think, you think. But I'm not saying I'm right, you're wrong.
Speaker 1:Right, his right was perfectly valid, and to the same thing, when you explain yours, it's also valid. So you know it's when people I think anything that's based around some sort of hate or animosity, like that's where things start to really twist. I'm like man, like I don't know how to get you away from that. But that's part of my problem, and everybody listening, like you, already know my fatal flaw. I am an optimistic person and I truly take a lot of things to heart. When I'm my heart's in it, like for good reasons, take a lot of things to heart. When I'm my heart's in it, like for good reasons, like when I get ah I Matt knows he's laughing already because I show him stuff I'm like, bro, look what.
Speaker 2:I'm trying so hard. Oh, you're good man, just don't, don't worry about all that. Stay out of the comments, like I was telling you that I've read the messages I got like um, and I don't even know how to feel. Like this, they'll message me. Um, I really. I really care about you and I don't even know how to feel. Like this, they'll message me. I really care about you, man, and I love what you say, man, but you're still a pig, so I can't like you and I'm like you know what. I take that as a compliment. I was like brother. That means a lot to me. I understand your feelings are valid and it's all good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always say all right, fair, yeah, fair enough, like I get it I?
Speaker 2:think the world would be a better place if we all had that. The boat, his attitude number one, and then my attitude did not get offended back.
Speaker 1:That's how this world should be. Yeah, I get cops all the time and they're like you need to kick this person off. Oh my gosh, there is nothing short of racism and violence. Those are the only. That's my two lines in the sand. Like listen, I, I, I'm, you can say whatever you want, but don't call for the harming or hurting of somebody. And and don't be racist. I won't tolerate those two things, and neither will social media. Yeah, you'll get tossed off anyway. Yeah, they'll, they'll take you off by themselves. But, um, everything else, I'm just like listen, if they say something so ignorant, it's only them calling themselves out and in showing that they don't have the credibility behind what they're saying. Um, versus somebody that says something that you have to sit back and think, all right, why the fuck am I so mad at this comment?
Speaker 2:yeah, that's why I stopped reading them some days you just started to move.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not today well, what it can cause is a little bit of self-reflection, like I I had.
Speaker 1:I was telling you, but when we were off camera that there was a guy that was, he was a little perturbed because he started to follow us because of you and he's like you and matt are two totally different people. Matt only calls out bad cops and you try to highlight cops doing good stuff and he, and basically the way he was saying, was like I was trying to cops plane when I do that and I was trying to shadow the bad that's out there and I'm I am. That's not where my mind is at. My mind is that we need to see the good so we can stay focused on where we want to see our policing at. Like, if I see a good example and I can share that with a rookie and I'm like that's gonna stick with that cop, that's gonna stick with any good cop that sees a good thing that's going on, and that's kind of one of the things that I'm trying to do, and they get mad because I'm not doing exactly the formula that Matt Thornton does and I'm like we're two different people.
Speaker 2:And I've also seen you get like people will come at you for even associating with me or acting like me. I've seen that too, yeah. So I just say like we're not the same we, but we agree on the main big thing, yeah, and that is that we want bad policing gone. My style is a little bit different from you. I tend to run my mouth a little more blatantly and arrogantly and and some people like I, I, my wife, has to slow me down a little bit because I do and I and I and I will be transparent. I do have some harsh feelings about a lot of cops that have judged me and said and not being good to me over the years, and part of me likes to say you know what Y'all are, a bunch of punks, and I enjoy putting you, putting my face in front of your screen with my mouth. So part of me and that's maybe my selfish, prideful side, but I mean we have two different styles.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I love your style. Yeah, and you guys also have to understand I'm still very much employed. I have a lot of career left, um, and Matt does not.
Speaker 2:So our chief, I still want to make it to the school year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so he can afford to be a little more reckless than what I can say. There's a lot of things that I would love to Chief. I still want to make it to the school year. Yeah, so he can afford to be a little more reckless than what I can say. There's a lot of things that I would love to say. I just can't, and I think I've made that pretty clear over the years. But you know, tomorrow marks our fourth year with Two Cops, one Donut, yeah.
Speaker 2:I've only known you for about what a year?
Speaker 1:Yeah, about a year. Yep, I've only known you for about a year. Yeah, about a year. April 2021 was when I first got this thing going and then eventually grew it into what we're growing into now.
Speaker 2:I was going to ask you, brother, do you ever get threatened in the inboxes?
Speaker 1:Oh man, oh man do I. Isn't that crazy. I get threatened I've. So the funny part is I will get people that are anti-cop and I will post something or make a comment on something else, and I understand where they're coming from. They think it's cop-splaining and, and you know me, I'm never trying to cop-splain. Most of the time I'm just trying to educate. Hey, hey, here's this, take it or leave it.
Speaker 2:I'm not taking America. Listen, I've had so many private conversations with this man right here. He does not like. He hates cop BS, just like I do. That's it Stop. Stop Stop categorizing him as cops playing he. I ride with this man.
Speaker 1:Thank you. So I will get these people they they don't do any homework on what I've put out and they think that I'm just trying to cover for cops and do all this stuff. I'm like, listen, I will justify when a cop is doing a good thing or is is doing something, that's normal, but I'll call out a bad cop stuff as well. But they they'll jump all over me and I have one right now that is trying to dox me. Really. Yeah, yep, yep, he's like I'm doxing, I'm gonna find I'm gonna get you fired from your department. I'm like you probably should have done a little homework. Yeah, like, literally, just look at the last reel I posted, because you're probably not gonna get too far in that.
Speaker 2:So I honestly think my chief doesn't even respond to emails that he gets these days about you.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah luckily for me, um, I, I have strictly followed our general orders as far as, um, you know, posting on social media and stuff like that. And then I, I have reached out to my chief multiple times, I've talked to assistant chiefs and stuff like that. And then I have reached out to my chief multiple times, I've talked to the assistant chiefs and stuff like that. Nobody's had a problem with anything I've been doing and I've always told them like, hey, like, if something I put out there is wrong, tell me, I'll take it down, like that's not a problem. I just right now, everything that I'm posting, I'm kind of following a formula and I think it falls in line with where you guys are at, and so it's, it's been working and, like I said, that should tell you kind of where I come from as a department that I've never, four years, I've never even been talked to once, really Not one time.
Speaker 2:I think I've had, I've had several conversations. Take this down, take that.
Speaker 1:So I think I'm following my formula that I've created has worked very well and I I I really truly believe that where I align my, I feel like that's where my department aligns, so that speaks volumes from where I come from yep, me too, and and I, I totally, I'm in the same agreeance.
Speaker 2:I mean, they've, they've given me latitude and I've only and I understand the ones they told me to take down, yeah, yeah because every once in a while tiger gets out of the cage.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, my publisher and my wife have told me, take some things down yeah like um, the one thing that I thought maybe might get me in muddy water was the sonia massey shooting the boiling water. But I was so. I was so mad after watching that, oh, that one made me sick. I I didn't give a shit. I was like you know what, if, if, you want to make a big deal about the way I responded to this one, I don't want to work for you. Yeah, but that never. But that never happened. That never happened.
Speaker 2:Man, I've been in some of these inboxes from what's crazy. People are claiming to be other cops. They're like man, people really want me dead. They're saying well, I can't wait until you come to my state. You're going to have a half a kilo in your trunk suddenly and it's like bro, is that you know?
Speaker 1:I could turn that around for my, uh, my.
Speaker 2:I've always had to tell myself this that I want change in the make the world better. I don't and this is scripture. I don't want revenge. God will get revenge. I don't, otherwise I'd be tagging these people, I'd be putting it out. That's not. I don't want revenge, I simply don't. I just want to make our profession better. And I read I read scripture constantly In Proverbs 16, 7, when a man's ways please the Lord, even his enemies will be at peace with him. And that's what I try to maintain. I know that me and you, when we're saying calling out bad cops, we're speaking truth, and God is the creator of truth. He is truth. So I think we are doing the right thing and pleasing to him by doing what we do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I want people to understand this too. I've been wrong. I have been wrong in some of the reactions that I've created on videos that didn't have enough information, where I'm like okay based on what I see right now.
Speaker 1:This is how I reacted and I always will say that, like I'm going to react on a video that I can't, this is okay, Matt, we'll have this discussion. People get mad that I will make a comment about a video that we don't have all the information on, and that is fair. Most of the time, if I watch a video and I'm like, no, we need more, I will say that no, I won't make a reaction on this because I need more. But if I made a reaction on the video, I will feel like I had enough. But sometimes I've been wrong. Sometimes I will find out more information later I'm like, oh, okay.
Speaker 1:That changes things. I was wrong.
Speaker 2:That changes things. I was wrong. I think I've made a retraction video or two over the time. Yes, over the years.
Speaker 1:Yes, so for those listening like, I've got no problem with owning up to being wrong. We were talking about that video. I cannot remember that guy's name or that account.
Speaker 2:Do you remember that one? No, I don't.
Speaker 1:So, anyway, I put a reaction out based on a technique, not anything to do with the video, because I couldn't speak on this video and it was on a very prominent. I'm actually pulling up my Instagram right now. I will even give that guy a shout-out Again. Love that enemy, right? I don't care, I didn't do anything wrong, in my opinion. I gave a comment on what I thought was proper and I got tore up for what I said. Give me one second. I almost have his account up Jolly Good Ginger. That's his name, jolly Good Ginger. So he had posted a video about this young, semi semi-deaf kid that's up for debate, I don't know. Um, he gets taken down by the cops, cops holding him down on the ground. Um, it's going to probably be a controversial topic, but anyway, I went into the technique that was used by the cop. They were claiming it was a choke. It was not a choke. Um, I've done grappling for a lot of years. If he was choking him, I would tell you yeah, that's a joke, he wasn't choking.
Speaker 2:Uh, I got tore up so I think I read that. I think that people were, they saw you, they didn't know the substance or who you were. Right, they, they, they were saying, well, you're just being biased to be biased, I think, because a lot of because of your name and uh and you just jumped in, uh yeah, I told you like it was like jumping in the shark and fester water. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I went into the lions then and they tore me apart.
Speaker 2:I've had the same experience, though, brother. I've been, I've been, I've been dismantled thoroughly on plenty of comments in in in the past. I just I stopped, stopped reading. I don't even have time anyway, with all my business, I don't even have time anyway with all my business.
Speaker 1:I get it, but yeah, man. So right now, our path that we've got going on, I think that having you join up with what we're doing is great, you know, and I've been talking to you guys but for everybody listening, we've got some really big things that are close on the horizon, where matt is going to get his own podcast and his own show. That's the goal I want matt to be able to do, because he has connections and the ability to talk to people in such a different way, one you don't need my ugly mug clouding that up too.
Speaker 1:I want matt and all that he's done in his career to to shine for for who matt is and not be tangled up with me. He'll still be a part of the two cops, one donut stuff and I didn't hear you.
Speaker 2:I'm staring at them brown, big brown, sexy eyes right.
Speaker 1:So what I want to do is kind of give some hope for those that listen to matt. Only he's going to. We're trying to get him his to. We're trying to get him his own show. We're trying to get him his own podcast. There's two different things. Matt's going to be doing podcast interviews, but he's also going to be doing a actual show, like a television show but for the internet, for streaming, and the idea behind it I want to get you guys hyped about this is he's going to be talking to people that have been reformed, people that have been through the system, people that are still on the streets and have to deal with cops and all of those different things. That's kind of the idea and Matt has those connections and I can only see that being an amazing show that helps fix policing. I don't want to say fix improves, it, keeps making it better.
Speaker 2:I want to show the world those are humans too, and they're made in image of God. And I got a. I got a list of people lined up that want to go, so hell.
Speaker 1:yeah, brother, I'm excited. Yeah, in the meantime, we're going to have those people jump on our live streams. Hopefully, matt, you can get them set up so they can jump on our live streams, because, again, two Cops, one Donut is not an echo chamber. That's not what we're trying to be. Joe rogan's podcast uh, did 20, yeah, did 26 years, I think. Wrongly convicted a murder. Turns out that the detective um was corrupt, had falsely got 27 other people convicted of homicide all his cases are being reviewed, I think several, I don't know, I forgot where he was out.
Speaker 1:Nypd, I believe, yeah, okay yeah, that's crazy yeah, so, um. So Derek was a great guest. I have his number. We've tried to connect a couple of times. I wanted to do follow-ups with him since he's been released. It's just he's, he's doing his thing, man, he's. He's got his whole top notch law I think it's called, or something like that and he's trying to help other convicts that are, you know, going through the same thing he went through to try to get their stuff overturned.
Speaker 2:And I'm going to keep doing more of those interviews that you chopped up wonderfully. I got plenty of ideas. I think this week me and Oscar, he's got this prison pudding that he makes that the kids love.
Speaker 1:Is it Boston? Oh yeah, have you seen that guy? I love that dude. He makes up prison recipes and he's like, oh yeah, blossom oh, he brought it out last week.
Speaker 2:I'm like I'm on a keto so I can't eat it, but I was watching all the kids. They loved it oh my god, okay, so I'm gonna try to get him to make it this week. I want to. I want to send you that footage.
Speaker 1:But he loved it. He's like man. What was the feedback from your guys, um, at the uh, home away from home, from the kids? What's their feedback? At the end of it? The video, no, no, no. Well, from when you guys go out on remote or wherever it is that you went, because you're at a location when you did that, yeah, yeah, okay. So when they go to that place and they're hanging out with you all, what's the feedback they're giving?
Speaker 2:Most of them are fatherless, so they just love the love, the love. They they're there to just connect with us and we help them out with whatever they need. Okay, they, they absolutely love it. You get, you, gotta you. The hardest part about our city is like a lot of them don't have a ride to get there, so I'm my phone is blowing up. That's why it's hard for me to get the messages. I get hundreds because kids just want to get there, they just want to be a part of it. They love it, they absolutely love it okay, I'm, I'm actually pulling up.
Speaker 1:I had a guy on my podcast named robert walsh. He's with next metropolitan. Okay, this is another non-profit. It sounds like it's similar to what y'all do, um, and one of the things that he does is they give suits and Nikes, jordans, suits and Jordans at the end of their little program that they do for these. You know, young male, I think it's like 12 to 18 is their window, but teach them like I don't know another way to say it, so don't kill me. Out there. Woke people, man etiquette. They teach them how I don't know another way to say it, so don't kill me. Out there. Woke people, man etiquette. They teach them how to be men.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's we got. We work with one in our area. I believe it's called the gentlemen's club. My wife actually asked if that was a strip club or something that was. It's on our, it's on our sponsorship post. Right now I teach young boys. I love that concept.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so he. Yeah, so he's a Sarge at Arlington PD, but he runs this non-profit Nex Metropolitan and it's nexmetropolitanorg and I had him on the podcast. He's a great dude, but that's what they do like. That's part of the program. If you get through it all, you get a pair of Jordans and you get a suit. Oh my gosh, right, like it's amazing. Don't get better than that, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I was like this is really cool and I've been meaning to do a follow-up to have him on, but maybe putting you two together and getting home, away from home and next back to Metropolitan together together you guys have the same mission, it seems like, so that'd be very cool it's actually what I want.
Speaker 2:My wedding suit me some with some jordan I want them.
Speaker 1:Flint 13s. Listen, if anybody's listening. That is my favorite pair of jordans. I can't find them for less than like 400. I ain't spending that type of money. If you got some connection to some flint 13s, I want to text.
Speaker 2:Text me your size and text me a picture. I got a hookup, do you? Do you? I don't care if they're fake.
Speaker 1:Text it to me, I got you, brother, my man Very cool, all right. Well, we are at your cutoff time, sir, and I know, that people are going to want to hear more from you, but is there anything that we didn't touch on that you want to get out there before we end this?
Speaker 2:Just that. We need support like the like, the, the, the mission. We need your pages to be a lot like, like, blow up and everyone needs. You need to be household name and what we do, um, needs to be, uh, more common, because I get tired of people being shocked that we're the ones doing it. I want it to be, I want it to be common, I want that's a good point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is weird to me when I hear people they're like, man, there's nobody out there doing what you guys do and I'm like, yeah, I get that all the time I'm like man it's.
Speaker 2:It should be yeah, I don't want people to follow us. I want more people to do what we do. Like dominic iso is another dude. I'll give a shout out, you a shout out.
Speaker 1:I don't agree with his approach. All the time he's a little, he's way more. Even if I wasn't a cop like I'm, like bro, I can't I could never say what you just said, like he goes hard.
Speaker 2:I have belly laughs so many times watching his stuff. I watch him almost every day.
Speaker 1:I love Izzo.
Speaker 2:He comes right by where I'm at yes, he knows my city well he shouted me out a lot in his videos too, and I appreciate the man, does he?
Speaker 1:yeah, oh yeah yeah, I talked to iso. We, we chat on the phone and, um, he's even. He's even busted my balls for some of the stuff I've put out saying you know like but he, he, and this is what I love about iso.
Speaker 1:He called me up. He's like hey, I I took one of your videos. He's like I'm kind of going at you a little bit, but this is what I love about iso. He called me up. He's like hey, I I took one of your videos. He's like I'm kind of going at you a little bit, but this is where I'm coming from and I'm like I actually heard that one I'm like dude, I am totally fine, yeah, yeah he was right I think I was listening to the live when he was actually doing that yeah, he was, he didn't do it.
Speaker 2:He did it like in uh, like a brother. Yes, he didn't smear you, no exactly. He made it clear that he loved you. Yep, yeah, and I told him.
Speaker 1:I called him up. I was like man, he's like you got me good, bro, and he's like you're not mad. I was like, no, I want to be mad. I was like you're not wrong. I was like like you know how it is. I'm limited. I can only do so much and I said so I love that dude yeah really is a good dude, and uh, don't be a dancing tiktok cop oh no, I'm with him on that.
Speaker 2:I'm with him on that he will destroy you.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So well, all right, brother, I know you got the wifey. Thank you so much for finally having the time to do this, and I'm not saying that in a condescending way. I'm saying that because I know you're out there doing good things yeah, I'm a.
Speaker 2:I love this. I will do this more often. I just got, I need a lot of heads up with my schedule and it's a I love the show.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 2:I love it. The same name, Detective Matt Thornton. Okay, my website is mfbyouthorg for our organizations and Home Away From Home. I should know that by heart. I believe it's Home Away From Home. I'd love to get that. Maybe we could put the link in the description or something.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's pretty new, or I can look it up right now, since we are home away from home youth development correct? Yep, okay, so it is home away from home. Wait, wait, no, no, no, hold on a second. I don't want to give out false information because that doesn't look like the right. Is it home away from home, drcom? Does that make sense to you? Let's see, yes, that is the right one, because that's the symbol. I'm seeing the symbol.
Speaker 2:Okay, there you go, I knew, some letters afterward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, home away from home drcom. So like home away from home drive yep that's what it reminds me of yeah, so make sure you guys go check that out.
Speaker 1:Um, matt and I collaborated together and posted a picture of his last time out there with him. Um, we were kind of joking about that earlier, so check that out. It's on our instagram and I will, I will. I will get more footage tomorrow. Hell yeah, brother, um, but no, uh guys, for for all of matt's fans, because I know matt's fans are going to be listening to this as well.
Speaker 1:Two Cops, one Donut sees heart, and we saw Matt's heart and that is why we reached out to him, and it wasn't something that we just decided overnight. But I will say when Matt and I talked on the phone, matt and I are able to read people, I think, better than most people, and I'm not good at a lot of things, but reading people's one of them, and I think we were able to read each other. Um, we took the time to do the homework on each other and here we are and I think that speaks volume. If you trust his character or if you're a two cops, one donut fan and you trust my character, just know that, um, I wholeheartedly put my trust and faith behind what Matt's been doing and what he's got going on and I think it's the same thing.
Speaker 1:So hear us and trust that we are on the same mission, the same path. We may not always agree with the same exact things, but it is going to be for the better.
Speaker 2:Amen, and I wouldn't be here if I didn't believe that wholeheartedly. Brother, you know I got you.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that. All right, everybody else out there. Thank you for listening. Make sure you check out Matt Thornton and thank you for tuning in. To Two Cops, One Donut.
Speaker 2:All right, brother, I'll hit you up.
Speaker 1:Sounds good, Take it easy everybody.
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