Two Cops One Donut
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Two Cops One Donut
Policing California's Immigration Crisis: A Law Enforcement Perspective
Former Sheriff Mark Lamb "America's Sheriff" and Friday's with Frank, Frank Sloup joins us!
• Sheriff Lamb clarifies the critical difference between sheriffs and police chiefs – elected versus appointed – and why this matters for accountability
• We explore the complex reality of body cameras, weighing their benefits against resource allocation challenges
• Our panel discusses California's immigration enforcement crisis and the dangerous consequences of poor communication between federal and local agencies
• We analyze contentious body cam footage showing a handcuffed suspect being punched, providing perspective on justified versus unjustified force
• The team breaks down a Nashville suicide-by-cop incident, offering tactical analysis of officer decision-making
• Frank shares his experience working with media to demonstrate accountability to constituents
• We examine a controversial Phoenix traffic stop that escalated to deadly force, highlighting the importance of de-escalation timing
• The episode concludes with exciting news about our partnership with DTV (Donut Network) to create law enforcement educational content
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Welcome to Two Cops One Donut podcast. The views and opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Two Cops One Donut, its host or affiliates. The podcast is intended for entertainment and informational purposes only. We do not endorse any guests' opinions or actions discussed during the show. Any content provided by guests is of their own volition and listeners are encouraged to form their own opinions. Furthermore, some content is graphic and has harsh language, Viewer discretion advised and is intended for mature audiences. Two Cops One Donut and its host do not accept any liability for statements or actions taken by guests. Thank you for listening. All right, welcome back to Cops One Donut.
Speaker 1:I am your host, Eric Levine, With me today. I have some special guests with me today. First and foremost, one you already know Deadleg. How you doing, brother, the day of paradise, I love it. I have the one the only Fridays with Frank Frank Sloan. What's going on? What's going on? Guys, Got a dream out there, brother. And then, special arrival, tonight is probably the man of the hour, the former Sheriff, Mark Lamb, America Sheriff. What's?
Speaker 1:going on, brother. Thanks for having me on. Hey, I appreciate you Very, very last minute deciding to jump on because we were actually kind of hurting for uh, who we were gonna have on tonight.
Speaker 2:Um, so what you're saying.
Speaker 3:So now in other words I was at the bottom of the barrel yes, it was right from me yeah more of.
Speaker 1:He's too good for us. I don't think he'll say yes. So I ask him. And you surprised me. I was was like holy shit. If you guys don't know, we are definitely all friends off the camera and give each other a lot of shit, so be prepared for that. Tonight it's going to be fun. And today's topics let me. Let me just run right into what we plan on hitting up today. First, we're going to talk about what's going on over in California, and no, we're not going to get into the politics of it, we're just going to talk about it from the policing perspective, things you may not have thought of and ways that us cops kind of look at that.
Speaker 3:Says you, I may dive into some of the political stuff, but they're not your beliefs. I'll just preemptive that.
Speaker 1:Now. That's actually in my disclaimer. I heard, it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, um, yeah, so we're going to be getting that going. Um, and to Mark and Frank, you're going to be hearing a lot or seeing a lot of comments and questions on the side. Feel free at any time to uh address some questions or things that they may want to ask or say. Um, I will point out some stuff as well along the way and then later on we're going to be getting into what the show is kind of about and that is doing, um, the body cam reviews. So what we'll do is we'll watch body cam video that we've never seen before.
Speaker 1:If one of us happens to have seen it before, we'll we'll bow out, but as the video progresses we will tell you how us as cops, would respond, as the calls developing versus Monday morning quarterbacking and knowing the outcome and all that stuff. So it kind of gives you a unique insight on how police training is, how it differs slightly across the nation because we're all from different walks of the earth when it comes to our police training. And then it also kind of shows you how we're all very similar, how we can take different paths to get to the same end goal. So it's fun, and then the whole thing is for y'all to participate, but no, first thing I want to do is let's get into our guests, for those that might not know who you are, so I'm going to go with Sheriff Lamb first. Sheriff, can you give a little bit of background how you got into the law enforcement and what you're doing in the space today? Yeah, sheriff.
Speaker 3:Mark Lamb, american Sheriff, better known as Frank's boss that's probably how I describe myself. Now I've been the sheriff of Pinal County, which is between Phoenix and Tucson, probably the third. It's the third largest county in the state of Arizona. There's only 15 counties. I never set out to be a cop. I actually got into it late in life, was 34, 33, went on a ride along, came home, woke my wife up that morning and said honey, I'm going to be a cop. And six months later I was in the academy, 34 years old, and so I started. A little bit later.
Speaker 3:I came from the business background, which I think actually really helped me when I got into the leadership portion of my career. I think having been in business gave me a very different perspective of how we should run the agency, how to treat your employees, how to really market what we were doing in Pinal County, market guys like Frank, all of that stuff we did, and that comes from the business background. So I was blessed enough to win two elections. The reason I'm not the sheriff, the reason it's former sheriff or retired sheriff, is because I ran for the US Senate, was unsuccessful in the primary, lost. I couldn't run for both. So on December 31st I had to retire, which has been a little bit different, but I'm out in the private sector building some businesses, doing some consulting, and it's all good, I like it, I like it.
Speaker 1:And what is different from a chief of police? So I like to do a little bit of education for people that wonder, like, what's the difference between a chief and a sheriff? A sheriff is an elected position, so you actually are representing the people that wonder, like, what's the difference between a chief and a sheriff? A sheriff is an elected position, so you actually are representing the people that want you there, for that county versus a municipal chief is. They're picked by the city manager and the mayor, basically, and they work at the pleasure of the mayor. I believe that's how it is at most places. So you don't necessarily get as much of a say when it comes to that. And then, when it comes to jurisdiction, who trumps who Sheriff? Is it city police or is it the sheriff?
Speaker 3:Oh, it's the sheriff. I know the sheriff is the king of the county, like he's the highest law enforcement in the county. While we respect the jurisdiction, ultimately, whatever city it falls within our county, and the people, all the people, regardless of what city you live in, if you live in the county, you elect the sheriff to be the highest law enforcement official in the county. And so you know, you're trying not to step on toes, you want to get along with everybody, but the sheriff is the top guy. Sheriff is elected by the people.
Speaker 3:I do always say because I hear people say well, the chief can't say what they want to say because they're, they're, they work for the city council and I always say, yes, they can, they choose the job. If they say it, they may lose their job, whereas the sheriff, I can say it and you may have to vote me out in four years or three years, however long it is to the next election. A chief can also say what they want to say, but they run the risk of losing their job and more of you know a lot of them are more concerned about losing the job than saying what needs to be said Right, and that's part of my issue with some, some chiefs out there is the lack of the backbone and when they have that.
Speaker 1:Some chiefs, some chiefs.
Speaker 2:Like all chiefs, hey, hey. Pick one that says his mind as much as any sheriff, especially sheriffs out of Florida sheriffs out of Arizona.
Speaker 1:No, no, no. No, I'm not comparing the two. I'm saying that not all chiefs lack the backbone. What hell, okay, sheriff, you tell me this. Here's kind of the thing that I'm wondering. If you have a chief that is supported by the people, I would think the public pressure would limit the ability for that mayor or city manager to do anything to them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're right, and what it is is. It starts in the beginning. If you come in and say, look, this is what I believe, this is what I stand for, we're going to support our guys. We're going to be aggressive in our approach to law enforcement. We're not going to tolerate illegal behavior, people breaking the law. You set that ground rules right from the beginning so that as you go along, that's what they expect, expect.
Speaker 3:I think what a lot of times happens is they get more and more frustrated and then maybe they say something you didn't start off that way. You start off a little bit more cautious, so anybody does like. It's just the nature of the beast. Everybody starts off a little cautious in a new job. But I think the bet, the more you do to establish right from the beginning where you stand, what you believe in, what you're going to tolerate, what you're not going to tolerate, how you're going to support your guys all that starts from the get-go and I've seen a few guys do it well. Sheriffs obviously were in a better position to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, frank. What has been your experience with Chief, with chiefs versus, uh, sheriffs? Have you worked for chiefs?
Speaker 2:Very early on in my career.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I did. And then I very quickly, I think just kind of like sheriff, said you, you find your place and you, you know you're, you're cautious. When you first started and I I started out working for a municipal agency realized that I was not meant to be a city cop, um, and that I was just I was. I was meant and built to be a deputy sheriff, and that's that's where I ended up, um, and then found out how, um, how sheriffs work. I I started my career under sheriff Joe Arpaio, which was was gave himself the title of America's toughest sheriff, um, and worked for him for years.
Speaker 2:And while working for him. Um, it was the first time that I saw a sheriff use media and realized how powerful it is. And you know, and people would trash talk, sheriff Joe is always being on the news and being, you know, media hungry. But what I saw in that was his how he used that to show his constituency that he was working for them, that he was doing exactly what he was elected to do. And that was before, so well before social media.
Speaker 2:In the early 2000s, that was the platform that was available to him to show the people of, at the time, maricopa County, to show the citizens of Maricopa County hey, you elected me to do this job, to maintain law and order, to maintain a jail. This is what I'm doing. This is what I'm doing. These are your wishes that I'm carrying out. And obviously he was insanely popular in that and using that medium to get that information out In the new time of social media. I think that was probably taken over by my, my previous boss, who used again social media to show what we were doing with the, with the sheriff's office, and how we were serving the public and keeping the citizens safe and and doing their will through his policies and procedures down to us at the deputy level. So I think that that's just that's. That's that's the essence of being a deputy sheriff or being a sheriff or working for a public official is is, you know, publicly elected official is is that benefit?
Speaker 1:Gotcha Deadleg, where were you in, were you I?
Speaker 5:was a fed in Hawaii, and then I worked for Ohio State University's Department of Public Safety.
Speaker 1:Oh, ok, so you was a fed cop. Ok, that'll work later, from when we start talking about some of this other stuff uh, slightly, slightly different uh, abilities and different rule set.
Speaker 1:Mr billfold said the biggest change is at a local level and a sheriff's a pretty good place to start holding police accountable. I have a great relationship with my sheriff after bad encounters with prior sheriff. Um, and and that's kind of one of the things we cultivate here Uh, sheriff, is we this? This platform is not a echo chamber for cops. It's the last thing we want. We want to have the tough conversations. We want to have the.
Speaker 1:You know, there are some cops out there that we've seen not doing their duties as they should be doing. There's there's bad training, things of that nature, things that we want to do, and one of the things I've leaned on is the sheriffs typically set the standards across the nation. The sheriffs are the ones that if they see a city cop overstepping, violating constitutional rights, you see your sheriffs come in and call it out, call it for what it is. There was a great video that I posted the other day of a statey going like 105. And who pulls him over. A deputy Deputy pulls him over, says hey, dude, like what's the deal? You're going 105. You don't have your lights and sirens on. And the statey tells him mind your business and then pulls off from him.
Speaker 1:The deputy writes up a good report, sends it up to the sheriff. The sheriff calls the local journalist, gets it put out there, starts an IA investigation with the state police, turns out the and they release his name. And I'm like that's a sheriff. That's what sheriffs do. They hold accountability when it needs to be. So that is one of the things that me as a city cop. I kind of look at the way good sheriffs run their department and I'm like, damn, that's the thing that we're missing out here. So people are bitching at me because it's Monday. I know, listen, guys, I can't. I have a new position at work so I haven't figured out what day I'm going to be doing the live streams.
Speaker 2:Hey new position at work, so I haven't figured out what day I'm going to be doing the live streams. Hey, congratulations on that, by the way. Thank you very much. I didn't hear it from you. I had to hear it from a mutual friend of ours because you don't call, you don't write.
Speaker 1:I told all my friends. I told all my friends, oh.
Speaker 2:That hurt right here, right under this flamingo.
Speaker 3:What do you expect from a guy who wants two cops but only brings one donut? Well, that's true, planned on not sharing in the beginning.
Speaker 1:No, I want it to be just like Lady and the Tramp with the noodle, with you in the hole. We'll meet in the middle at the hole, take that, however, you want. I'll let your imagination run wild.
Speaker 2:What happened? What happened to you?
Speaker 1:Oh, you know, Been hanging out with you too much, that's a little bit of truth to that.
Speaker 3:I just saw somebody mention Donnie Youngblood. That's a great sheriff out there in California Kern County. There's a lot of great sheriffs across this country that are doing it right, protecting the Constitution. We have to support them. There's a lot of great sheriffs across this country that are doing it right protecting the constitution.
Speaker 4:Um we have to support them, that's true.
Speaker 3:Somebody, you guys, whoever made the comment, said it best changing everything, protecting our, our, our daily way of life is a local thing. They want to make you think that the senators and congressmen in was DC make our life go up or down. It's really local politics and that does start with putting in a good sheriff and a good county attorney or DA or whatever you guys call them across the country. But that's where you start off at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yep, agreed, all right. So on the sheriff side of things, now that you're done and you're out there speaking to people and whatnot, we'll get into what's going on out there in California. So for those that don't know, they have ICE agents going around and they are enforcing all of the illegal immigration stuff. So I'm not going to get into the politics on it, but what I want to get into is some of my frustrations with the things that I've seen, some of the good practices that I've seen, at least in the state of Texas, versus what I'm hearing. And this, again, it's just what I'm hearing. I don't know this for a fact. That's going out in California and you guys all have friends out there. We've all talked to people and we have a different pulse about what's going on. So I'll get into what.
Speaker 1:One of my biggest pet peeves with what I see right now, what is pissing me off as I see ICE agents. Now, we've all worked around feds. None of them ever run around with something that says police on it. It will say what they are U S Marshall, fbi, uh, u S border patrol, whatever it is. It will say their stuff. However, we have this issue over here in California. Every time they're showing something on the media, it just says police. They're all masked up, which I get, because they're getting docs and they they're getting threats to their, their safety, their family safety, all of that stuff. You know I get that. But when you put out there that it just shows police across it, why doesn't it say you know, immigration enforcement, something that shows their agency? It says police. Now, frank, have you seen that? Have you? Do you know anything about why it says police? Now, frank, have you seen that? Have you? Do you know anything about why it says police?
Speaker 2:I. I don't um and I think it's. I mean I, I. We work with a lot of agents. Um like hsi is a big thing that that we deal with here in panell county and can you explain hsi what that stands for uh?
Speaker 2:homeland security investigations. They're the, for as far as I understand they are the investigative branch of Homeland Security and we do stuff like like ICAC or Internet Crimes Against Children, stuff like that with them, in conjunction with them, and I always see agent on on theirs. So it doesn't specifically say Homeland Security investigations, it just says agent Right, so as kind of a cover all.
Speaker 1:But not police Right. That's so like. It's very rare, Sheriff Lamb. What do you think?
Speaker 3:It doesn't bother me as much. They're out doing the police job for the most part. Sometimes it's a task force, so maybe they are cops, they're part of the task force, although I don't see a lot of 287 G task force, and certainly not in California. California has state laws and said't you can't work with ice, which is a real problem right now with what's going on out there in California, los Angeles.
Speaker 3:You know, I believe sometimes people are just not how do I put this Don't always the sharpest tools in the in the toolbox, and so they aren't always the sharpest tools in the toolbox. And so sometimes you got to just bring it down a level and just make it simple police as opposed to HSI agent. People are going to be like what is an HSI agent or what is an ERO agent? They don't know. And sometimes it's just that simple to put police and people cannot say later on well, well, I didn't know, it was the cops, they had police on their vest, they had police on the back. You knew it was law enforcement that's a fair point.
Speaker 1:That's a fair point, yeah, and I I understand that. It's just like I said. Every time I see any of these three-letter agencies, that's's exactly what you see it's their agency, but yet for this they're going out there with police on there To me, like we're seeing the police themselves LAPD. They're kind of stuck in between this position of that's not their job, that's a federal agency out doing federal work, with a different boss, a different set of rules, regulations and laws, and they're getting lumped in with something that they don't have anything to do with. And I think part of that issue is with their stuff saying police dead leg. What do you think about that?
Speaker 5:I'm trying to think of because most everything I've done is all federal. So I'm trying to think of all the different federal agencies that I've worked alongside of and every time I've ever worked with them they've always had, like what they are, a couple of times that, like the marshal service will say us marshals police, but it'll say us marshals on it. The one thing that I could think of is, like there, the, if there's a confusion whether they're being detained to be deported or to being arrested, and that that police problem there, the, the bigger problem in california is there's, there's, there's no cooperation and at the end of the day, we're all law enforcement. So let's say there's a mass shooting that goes on, that gets dispatched at the lapd. I guarantee every federal agent that's got a radio that's working, they're going to run right there to the backup. So when you have ICE and HSI doing these investigations and they're trying to detain these people and shit starts hitting the fan, they're hitting that panic button and LAPD is not there for them. That's the weird quandary where I'm in.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, and that's what stinks right now is they're getting put between the two jobs. Now, sheriff, let's say your guys are out there. We're talking, this is happening in Pinal and ICE is out there running doing their thing and all of a sudden, all these protesters come out. How is the communication going to be prior to that? After that, in the middle of that, with you and the ICE agents?
Speaker 3:Well, I'm going to hit on a couple of things. First of all, that wouldn't happen in Pinal County because we'd stuff it out right from the get-go. When people start showing up with masks and all these things, certainly if you start throwing bricks at cars, let alone law enforcement cars, you're going to be held accountable. That is just simply against the law. But here's where I have a problem. I have a little bit of a problem. My wife actually brought it up. She's like look, how do they know when terrorists are about ready to commit these terrorist acts? They're all over social media, but you're going to tell me they don't know that thousands of people are going to show up to a street. That is being organized online. Like, this is what the FBI should be dedicating their time to not going after American citizens. And I get that they're in a transitional period, but this is what the FBI should be focused on. Like, hey, we're getting some Intel, but there's going to be some large groups showing up to try to get in the way of ICE and we can start to mobilize. But it almost feels like nobody said anything, like nobody tipped anybody off, and so then it became a real problem. And they didn't. La is not going to be the guys that are going to sorry, I got to fly flying around LA is probably not going to be the best place. Lapd is a phenomenal agency, one of the best in the country but it's probably not going to be the place where you're going to have a ton of community support for shutting something down like this right away. And so being able to, you know, get as much intel before these kind of things happen is very important, and I just feel like there's got to be somebody that knew that a big group of people is going to show up and start throwing stuff at ICE agents and doing all that stuff.
Speaker 3:And I'm not blaming anybody, I'm not blaming LAPD. Like I said, the state created this when they said the federal law or the state law enforcement can't work with the feds, and what do you expect? There's going to be a lack of communication, and then there's going to be this pause like hey, are we able to jump in here, or are we violating a state law? If we do, and so it's just a real problem. That's why I say it wouldn't happen here. It's not happening in red states, not happening in alabama, it's not happening in other places. You know where it's happening, in blue cities. That's the reality of it, because they they know that these blue politicians have been weak and they are not leading and they're leaving us in law enforcement out there like sitting ducks.
Speaker 3:So, not a fan of what's going on in LA and I'm not a fan of the people in charge in LA and I think they share a lot of the blame, as do a lot of these other politicians who have been going around calling ICE the Gestapo. What do you think citizens? They feel emboldened to go out and stop them, when you have equated them to the Gestapo. So this should have been. You know, they should be dealing with some of these people who are inciting these riots and it's a failure on a local level and a state level from those politicians like Mayor Bass and Gavin Newsom. And with that frigging, I'll let it go. I know I got a couple amens, thank you.
Speaker 1:I think my mom was one of them actually. No, I do. I get what you're saying and I think this is a good litmus test to show people what happens when the communication between law enforcement agencies fail. And this is one of those where they're not communicating properly or they're not communicating the best way that they can. Because, just like you said, federal agencies they're listening to the orders basically of the president, federal agencies they don't. They don't they're listening to the orders basically the president, and that has nothing to do with what the state and their mission is. And then that feud between them is causing a safety concern for the PDs that are out there.
Speaker 3:Well, the state has said they're not going to do it, so it is the federal government's job. The state shouldn't be surprised when the federal government comes in to do the job and the people that they were removing that kind of precipitated. All the riots started because they started arresting these people. They're freaking dirtbags. They were dirtbags of the first class and had orders of removal and deserved to be removed. And then all these other people showed up and I guarantee you they're paid agitators, most of them. They're being paid by political groups that benefit by causing all sorts of chaos. We saw it the first time around under the Trump administration and anytime you see these things going on, you can bet they're paid agitators these things going on.
Speaker 1:You can bet they're paid agitators, and I have personal experience with this, so one of my specialties for where I work is Just found a really great deep dive here. What the hell was that?
Speaker 2:That was me. I'm actually, I'm looking up.
Speaker 3:He's on Instagram. He's bored already.
Speaker 2:That's actually. I am on Instagram. He's on Instagram. He's bored. Already talking about a deep dive into the finances behind these riots, linked it back to a organization pretty much the socialist party based out here in the United States. She put a whole post up about it, so I was looking that up to get her name.
Speaker 3:And those are the groups they should take down.
Speaker 2:Yep, she's a representative out of Florida, so again, a red state where this isn't happening, just like it's not happening in arizona. Um, but she, she really brought to light, uh, some of the funding streams and where these are coming from. So that's why I was looking up yeah, um what I was getting great about is I'm trained in mobile field force.
Speaker 1:it's one of the things that I do. I've worked the rncs and the dncs, uh, several times times as a mobile field force bike officer. One of the things Seattle police if you guys have ever seen, seattle police is a mobile field force on bikes. They're they're probably what is considered the cream of the crop. They can clear city streets in seconds with their bike unit. It's amazing, but anyway, one of the things that we ran into. We did have an incident where I'm at where we ended up making like 50 arrests or so and come to find out every single person that we were running through the jail. None of them were locals. They were all shipped in, and that was the first time in my life, in my entire 19-year law enforcement career, where I'm like, oh my God, like all the conspiracy theories that I've heard, like this is a true thing, like they did. They shipped them out here and none of them were. A lot of them weren't even from the state. Texas is huge and and so that goes.
Speaker 2:I think they'd all be from Austin.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I have firsthand personal experience that I can attest to that. Yeah, a lot of times these antagonists and those are the ones that you want to pluck from the crowds the antagonists are not from your local area, they are there for that. They are there to cause that shenanigans that you see going on um and and who's the who's dropping off the pallets? Of bricks, bricks and stuff I saw that.
Speaker 3:I saw that post today also and look I don't know man with ai and stuff. It's really hard to know what the truth is anymore. But I will say I'm like we know they're paid agitators. They were doing like all the 2020 riots and during all this other stuff and, frankly, if you show up and you got a mask on, you're obviously hiding your face from something You're up to no good. Here's what the First Amendment says. The First Amendment says you have the right to peaceably assemble and to address grievances, to redress grievances with your government. First of all, that does not happen after hours. That should be happening during hours. That's when your government is there and it's to peaceably assemble. And the left seems to be very silent right now, other than to say it's President Trump's fault about. I know you don't want to get into politics, but somebody said on the comments there is no way to talk about this without digging into politics, because that's what we're seeing here.
Speaker 3:We're seeing politicians on behalf of their to push their party agenda, allow this kind of stuff to happen in DC and throw gas on the fire instead of dealing with it. That's what Newsom should be doing. If you don't want National Guard in in your state, then deal with your problem. Get your guys out there and tell give them a truck full of brown water to shoot out of a water cannon and, uh, you'll just start to spell people real quick, with a little e coli to go with it you can't be doing chemical warfare, sir.
Speaker 3:Oh geez, but it would be funny to make it brown water. It could still be clean water, but make it brown so they don't think it's clean Psychological warfare, make them dust.
Speaker 2:So, eric, to your point. In 2016, I arrested three protesters that blocked the road to a Trump rally the very first time. He ran just outside of Scottsdale in a small town called Fountain Hills, and out of the three people that I arrested, none of the three were from Arizona, and they were all paid protesters. So it's it is so. It happened as far back as the protests against Trump in 2016.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we have these protests going on in Texas, so I don't want to sit here and pretend like there's no protests going on, but they're peaceful. You can assemble 5,000 people and no one is going to pay it any mind as long as you chill. But the moment you start I mean man, I saw lapd. They got pinned underneath an overpass on the freeway throwing rocks down on cars destroyed.
Speaker 1:So that goes this is the other part who who's gonna pay for the cars you just destroyed? Your own cars, your own tax dollars, and that's another.
Speaker 3:They don they don't see it like that. They see it as government money. They're completely detached from the idea that government money is their tax dollars Because, frankly, most of those folks don't pay taxes, so they don't equate that to being their tax dollars. It's not how they see things.
Speaker 1:If the government gives them a check for doing nothing throughout the month, saying, hey, we want you to stay at home, here's a disability check, or whatever, a lot of those people think that is magic government money and not hard-working taxpayer dollar money, and that's a major disconnect in this, in this society and in another part of this, of of the cops being played as pawns and this is one of the reasons I think they're being played, and I'll say it this way is their, their government officials show up to these facilities where they're being held, where the uh, the people that are being arrested are held, and they want to go see the conditions of the prisoners and they're not letting them in and people are up in arms about that and I would really want to ask the question when did you ever go look at how the prisoners are being treated in your own cities?
Speaker 1:The people you've arrested? I guarantee they have never, ever once, went to check on the conditions of the american prisoners in their own city. And now, all of a sudden, you're concerned about the conditions of these people that are being arrested.
Speaker 5:I think we're reacting to the same text oh, oh, I didn't see it.
Speaker 1:Which one were you reacting to?
Speaker 5:oh, alan just landed.
Speaker 1:He's looking for a shirt oh, okay, all right, I gotta put this one out there. I deleted, I think all of them, but maybe the one on twitch. So, sheriff and frank, this will be a funny for you guys. Alan nelson is my behind the scenes tech guy. Okay, um, he's a police officer in, uh, podunk, texas I'll give you that this is a small area, but, um, he is a tech guru.
Speaker 1:He's one of our tech guys and he is building this computer and wanted to test run a live stream on all of our platforms simultaneously. Well, he didn't realize that the camera was running or something like that, and he was shirtless and just staring and not doing anything awkwardly for a few minutes and then realized he's live streaming and ended it. But that was on the internet for a good 15, 20 minutes before we realized. So we got a lot of people on here that. Yeah, mr Bill Fodor already said it, this is a common hashtag. I sit with Alan. But this is a common hashtag, I sit with Alan. So good old Al was out there burying all for everybody to see, at least from the tits up, and we've been given.
Speaker 2:A man's chest should never be described as tits.
Speaker 1:We've been given.
Speaker 2:It's just terrible.
Speaker 1:Let's just say, the sun has not seen that body in quite some time. He was a very pasty, pasty man, yeah, but uh, anyway, back to back to topic here. Um, okay, so go ahead.
Speaker 5:Yeah, like cops. Yeah, like the cops that you're out there on the street. They have absolutely nothing to do with policy. They don't make any of those decisions, they're not in any of those meetings. So the people that are yelling at them in their face and give them the you can go, do that to a wall has the same effect, because the people that you need to be doing are the people that you elected into those positions in the first place.
Speaker 1:Because the people that you need to be doing are the people that you elected into those positions in the first place. Yeah, yeah, agreed, and that's the hard part out here, for the police is like how do you? You can't. They're not even explaining, they can't. The cops can't defend themselves as far as it goes to explanation. So you would hope the chiefs are out there explaining. You would hope the sheriffs are out there explaining. Now and that's another question I got for you Sheriff Lamb is, let's say, lapd and the issues they're having in the city. What is your role as the sheriff? Because it's within your county. How do you address that?
Speaker 3:Well, the sheriff can go out and do something about it. You know he's going to work with LAPD. Obviously they're not trying to be at odds with each other, especially in the middle of a riot. You don't want to get into a pissing match with, you know, your local police chief. But the sheriff certainly can allocate some of the resources. We saw that in, you know, when Villanueva was there in LA County, when they wouldn't, when the cities wouldn't clean up the homelessness, he started going and clean it up and, frankly, that's one of the things that they used against him to try to get him unelected when when the guy that's currently there ran against him. So you know it's, there's always going to be political ramifications, but the sheriff's job is to just do the job. Like politics be damned, you got to do it and let the consequences follow. And that's part of being an honorable person is do what is right, no matter what the consequences are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree. I mean, man, you would think that that would be more prominent in police work, just by the guys we talk to out there day to day. But for whatever reason, the higher up up you get, they talk a big game behind the scenes, but when it comes to actually shitting or getting off the pot, they, they never follow through. And I don't understand, I don't get it. Um, because I guarantee the day that one of them steps up and and says what the majority of their people in their city or county agree with, they're going to defend them and they're going to back. I would hope that they back them up.
Speaker 3:Well, self-preservation. It plays a big part in that. You know, people are more really. When it comes down to it, they're preserving themselves, preserving the job, the money that comes in every month. But there's a lot of people out there that are willing to say it, you know you take like a grady judd when somebody says, hey, why did?
Speaker 3:you shoot him 60 times and you answer because we ran out of ammo. That's just straight up brass ones, you know, like right and and but, but he has more support than ever. You can ask frank we never we never kowtowed to anybody. We were always focused on protecting constitutional rights, protecting our community, doing those things. But we never said, oh, all we got to do is politically advantageous. We never did that. And what happened? We had a ton of support, an overwhelming amount of support. People are looking for that realness, that authenticity. Even the people that didn't agree with me on everything, they were still grateful that we were willing to stand up for what we believed in. And it's palpable when you do it the right way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's one of the draws to what we do on here is I don't always agree with everybody that either comes on the show. I don't always agree with what some of our members that follow us say, Um, and they don't always agree with me, vice versa, but it's the ability to have the real conversations. Hey, we might not agree, but at least we can have the talk. And we've gotten we've gotten several people on here that start off as trolls. They start trolling and we don't. We don't kick them off. I love that.
Speaker 3:Somebody. Somebody was attacked Like. Somebody made a comment about Grady Judd because they don't have body cameras. Well, I'm going to tell you right now we didn't have body cameras in Pinal County either. And, first of all, the taxpayer doesn't doesn't pay taxes to send a body camera to a call. They pay to send a deputy to a call camera to a call. They pay to send a deputy to a call.
Speaker 3:So unless you have an overwhelming amount of deputies where you no longer need more staff and you can afford to spend millions of dollars on a camera, I think the camera has slowly eroded the trust in police officers to a certain extent. Where it used to be, when a police officer would go in and testify, now they only want to see the body camera and you could show it to 12 jurors and 12 jurors will have 12 different opinions of what the body camera says. It does help in some ways. I'm not against them. I'm just saying my primary responsibility is to ensure that I have the resources to send a police officer or a deputy to your residence. I think more people are concerned with that and when I get enough staffing then you can look at doing, you know, body cameras.
Speaker 3:But I don't think that attacking somebody because they don't want to have body cameras I mean policing was done for a long time before bodies cameras came along and it was done very well. So it's not a sign of whether you know you're trying to hide from something or not. It's just not. That's just not a plausible thing and, frankly, if anybody doesn't trust the police, they're more than welcome to wear a body camera. Nobody's going to stop them. But I don't think the taxpayers should pay for the distrust of one or two people.
Speaker 1:So, um, I I'll push back a little as a person that wears a body camera where is? I've wore one since about 20, 20, 2009. I think that's when I got my first one, 2009. So, um, no, yeah, somewhere in there, somewhere when the iphone came out, I know that. Um, but that's when I got my first body camera and I can tell you that the the fruits of that labor paid off immediately. Um false allegation type thing popped up body cam, squashed it very quickly. Um, I got to the point now where, if I go out and patrol, I and I forget my camera. It's charging on the dock or whatever. I can tell you, I feel naked and afraid without my body cam. I immediately turn around and go grab it.
Speaker 3:Look at what cameras have done now. Now you're thinking about that when you go out to do a job that is very dangerous. You got to negotiate and juggle. Another thing Like I said, I'm not against body cameras, but there's a lot of people that are on here making comments, but they've never been in a leadership role. They've never been the guy that has to decide do I get my guys' raises and get more food for their families, or do I spend those millions of dollars on body cameras? It's easy to sit here and go, oh, you've got to have them, when you're not the one that has to come up with the money, of how you pay for them and what the downsides to them are Sure it saves it. The downsides to them are Sure it saves it.
Speaker 3:I bet you, eric, I bet you my agency didn't get more than 15, 10 to 20, 20 tops cases or complaints a year. That would have required us to look at a body camera. It just didn't. That wasn't a part of it. So I think that once people know, then you get all these records, requests, so like I get why people are for it, but at the same time you know I can make all the arguments against it as well, and so it's not the end all be all.
Speaker 3:It doesn't sell everything and it is very expensive and is very laborious. I had 8,000 public records requests a year without body cameras. If I'd have had body cameras I would have had 15,000, you know, requests just so for reporters and people that they could go and see what we're doing, and body cameras and you have to redact all that. It is a lot of money and what I'm saying is, until you are where you need to be staffing wise, I think that you should be very cognizant of what kind of money you're spending on equipment. It should go towards putting bodies on the streets first and foremost.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 5:I see that I have a question Generally what are body cameras meant for? To catch cops being bad cops or to catch cops being good cops? Because if it's to catch cops being bad cops, instead of investing the money into that, if you invest money into the background investigation or you invest money into their training, the continued training, mental health, support along the lines, you have great officers that you can have that trust in, so you don't have to have these body cameras. So if you're going to spend the money anyways, why not spend it there? Then you have great officers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I see somebody saying well, we pay your cars, we pay all this, that's right, your tax dollars do, but you don't give us enough tax dollars to be able to pay for all that stuff. That's the thing Like, if you guys want to spend more tax dollars and pay more to get all the things, we were 40 deputies from where we needed to be before we could justify making that expense. And this is what a lot of you folks making comments don't understand, because you probably haven't been in a leadership role or managing a large budget or how you manage all those things. And so, look, I can sit and nitpick and armchair quarterback things I don't really know about. It's really easy because I'm passionate about it.
Speaker 3:But having all the knowledge and being able to be put into another position, that's where you we pay for your lawsuits. Well, we never got sued, we never paid out any lawsuits. What are some of these other garbage? Uh, all you guys on here, all you're in the in the tank for body. That's an ACLU thing in the beginning and now even the ACLU is like hey, we don't love the body cameras as much.
Speaker 2:You know why? Because it was showing people, not cops, being bad it was showing people being bad and how bad they are to us, and then, all of a sudden, the ACLU was like ah, wait a second. Maybe we don't want body cameras, that's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that on body cameras, that's right. Yeah, yeah, that, that is true. I do know that that came down, the aclu started saying that it was depicting stuff in a, uh, racist way, um, and they were pointing out that there was. They didn't want body cams being shown. So I do get that. But I am a hundred percent pro body cam. That is me. Um.
Speaker 1:One, because it it just helps in everything.
Speaker 1:It helps in investigations, because this is when I would do a report, for instance, I'd be out there, I would do the report, as I recall, and then I would be able to review my body cam and go back and be like oh, there's a detail I missed, there's this that I missed.
Speaker 1:I couldn't remember where this person was at, things of that nature. So, one, it helped me in my investigation. Two, it definitely helped me against false allegations, which is fucking priceless in itself, at least for my peace of mind as the guy that's out in the street. And then, three, if you do have some bad shit in your department, like I would want to know and I want there to be as many checks and balances as I could get, and now I get all your points, sheriff and I it's just one of those things that I've had one for so long that I don't I literally don't even think about it. When I get a call, my camera's already on. I'm not even at the call yet I have had it. I'm so good with my body cam. I'll put it this way I've had fights break out in front of me and I didn't even know I turned my camera on.
Speaker 3:Muscle memory.
Speaker 1:It's just muscle memory. Yeah, I start running towards the problem. My camera's already rolling. I didn't realize I did it, but I've had one that long. That's where my muscle memory's at. And now just picture a rookie who's? That's all he knows. That's all they know is having a body cam and when they should have it on and all of that stuff. So, but I do know what you're talking about when you're talking about the Freedom of Information Act and all of the money and expense that goes into getting that information. Imagine an agency like how many? Okay, I'll ask you this how many calls Frank and Mark did you guys get through dispatch for police? A year Roughly?
Speaker 2:I couldn't even tell you. Mark would have to say that.
Speaker 1:How many?
Speaker 3:calls. Do we get what?
Speaker 1:How many calls for service do you get a year?
Speaker 3:300 a day, probably Three something a day on the average. So what Million calls a year? Maybe two, two, 1.2 million. Yeah, so, and look just and I'll leave it at this because I know we were talking about something else we got out some of these guys on here, we got sidetracked because of the camera thing yeah the bottom line is I'm not against it.
Speaker 3:What I'm saying is there are agencies that just it's not. It's not fiscal response, fiscally responsible right to engage in something that costs when you still are down, god, or when your guys need raises, or there's other things that need to be addressed first. Um, I guarantee you, within the next few years, my agency that where I was the sheriff will probably have body cameras. We did a good job of making sure that we got our staffing levels up to where they could be better, for somebody could do that. So it's not that I'm against it, I'm not against it at all. I'm just saying there are things. There's pros and cons to everything.
Speaker 3:I can tell you the pros, I can tell you the cons, but in the end it's about when you're the leader. I'm sorry, my job is make sure that my guys get paid, that I'm hiring enough people to show up to the calls for service, that I give them good equipment, like good cars, good computers, top of the line stuff like Peregrine and all these other things. Cars, good computers, top of the line stuff like Peregrine and all these other things. That's what my focus is, and if I can afford to go and buy that other piece of equipment, then I will. It's just it's not that easy, it's not as easy as you think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I, I and you're right. I don't know. I've never been in that position of leadership where budget is a thing that I even have to consider. So I don't know. I do know that it is. Again, my department is roughly around 2,000 cops, so out of 2,000 cops, all that body cam footage, you know, running all day long, that's space and time and the amount of money that something like that costs is enormous. And then when you get into the Freedom of Information Act stuff now you're talking, you got to have time for somebody to scrub that footage, because if there's a juvenile on there, if there's a person's personal information on there, there's all these things that have to be redacted.
Speaker 2:Anything on a computer screen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and AI has not gotten to the point yet where it's good enough to do all that editing on its own. You need a person. You've got to have somebody that does that, not a person.
Speaker 3:We would have to have at least three redactors. Right, we've priced it out. I know what it is. It's a.
Speaker 1:it's a big lift, right it is, it's huge so. So there is cost. So I would be speaking out of my ass if I'm like, well, no, sheriff, fuck you. Like that doesn't make a difference. I don't know.
Speaker 3:I, I really don't know the average cop who gets in the car and gets on his computer and turns on his body camera never thinks twice about what it is for the chief or the sheriff to put all those pieces in place. They don't think about it. It's not their job to think about it. I'm not saying they should, it's just not something they think about.
Speaker 1:Right, right, exactly, but I guarantee you.
Speaker 3:they'll bitch to you and tell you they need to make more money. And I hear that Like I agree with them.
Speaker 1:They gotta make more money, absolutely. I want to give a shout out to Harrison Brock and also Stephanie Thompson. These guys are supporting the show, throwing out some money, buying some memberships for people. Thank you very much, guys.
Speaker 2:I don't even have a membership.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, you got to either buy one or support your friends.
Speaker 2:I'll have to get on there.
Speaker 1:Yeah right, not even a follower. Yeah, son of a bitch, I'm subscribed. I'm subscribed.
Speaker 2:You're subscribed. Okay, I mean that it's possible.
Speaker 1:I'm subscribed. I'm subscribed, you're subscribed.
Speaker 3:Okay, I mean that's possible. I'm not subscribed, but I don't get on subscribed to anything.
Speaker 1:I was going to say. You don't seem like the type that actually uses social media. You just get on it All right. Before I do this body cam stuff, I like to always go over something that we post on our pages. That gets a little controversial and brings up some good discussion. So I'm going to share the screen here. If you guys are not familiar with our Instagram page, please get familiar. I'm going to turn the chat overlay off for a second y'all, so we can make this screen a little bigger. Now I want you guys to watch this video. This is one I did a reaction to. Okay, we're going to unmute and I apologize. I cannot make this any bigger, but we're going to play from here. So a little background on this. You got a guy that got arrested for unknown reasons. We're not sure why, but he is handcuffed with his hands behind his back and he is strapped to a gurney. Um, if you can see my mouse, you can kind of see it here.
Speaker 4:So I'm gonna hit play don't do that shit again, all right, so we're going to pause.
Speaker 1:So let me give you a little back Are you wearing a vest. Yeah, that's my freaking. That's my reels vest. Baby, that's my old carrier.
Speaker 3:It looked like gray.
Speaker 1:It's so sun faded because I wore it forever, but it's got my two cops one donut badge on there, oh nice.
Speaker 1:Nice, you mean one like this yes, sir, just like that Got it. But so, basically, what happened was the guy in the gurney spit and then you see the reaction of the cop. So we had the discussion and we were talking about, you know, when that's okay, when it's not okay, if it's okay. So I'll present to you guys, given that information I have, and I'll lead the discussion on what my position was, one that is not justified because it was way too.
Speaker 1:After the fact, I, I I left the comment in saying that there's almost never a reason to punch somebody's handcuff, but there are justifications no 100 if I see somebody about to hawk tua in my face, I'm gonna grab their face or hit them or sling them to the ground or something to prevent them from biohazard into my eyes, my nose and my mouth. Um, if I can catch it in the act. But this was well after the fact. He'd spit the guys like ah shit, and then he goes over and then he delivers some post justice. Um, that's a no go, that's a no go to me, so I'll leave it to you guys.
Speaker 2:Frank, I'll go with you first. Buddy, uh, I don't think I have a different opinion than you. Um, I I think that there is that, that immediate response of when someone is one foot away from you, uh, you're trying to put them in the back of a car, you're, you know you're doing something, and it's a natural reaction, very different than this. I mean, this guy had to take multiple steps. He obviously wasn't. I mean, he had to push past another officer to get there.
Speaker 1:Um, I just, I don't see the reaction of the cop that was on the other side of the gurney. I can't pause it, um, or I can't rewind it, but uh, the guy with the mustache. You just see him look up like what the fuck are you doing that? Like that was the look. So, sheriff, what do you? Got on that?
Speaker 3:well, I think you look at the other officer's reaction to what happened and that tells you whether it was wrong or right. You know the other officers immediately were the looks on their faces, like you said, and and the other guy pulling them back. That tells you the hey, he went, he, he went too far or he did something wrong. Look, that's a tiny little clip. It is really hard, but but that was pretty clear. Yeah, um, you don't know what it is. What's going on.
Speaker 3:There's a way to deal with a spitting subject who's already handcuffed. You can just put a bag over his face or cover it something. If you spit on somebody in in arizona, it's ag assault, right, so that is ag assault. I don't know if it is in texas. Um, it's ag assault. You can charge the guy with it. Um, but he's not gonna, he's not gonna be able to do much beyond that. You cover him up, put a spit mask on him, but I I think the biggest indicator is how the other guys responded to him and I think that tells you that what he did was was not right.
Speaker 1:Right now. Um, in that. So cause, cause you were a leader, sir. Um, how do you handle this disciplinary wise? I'll tell you what I said. How do you handle this disciplinary wise? I'll tell you what I said. This guy can't be a cop If it's exactly what we've seen Now, like you said, there could be more to it that we didn't see, we don't know. I highly doubt it, just like you said, based on the reactions of everybody. But let's just say it is what we saw. You just punched the shit out of a handcuffed dude in a gurney because of POP pissed off police. How do you handle that as a sheriff?
Speaker 3:Well, we have a disciplinary matrix and that probably would easily meet the disciplinary matrix of termination. You know he could get charged. I see people saying, look, they didn't charge him. If that guy said, hey, I want to charge him for assault, you know, we would have to do a criminal investigation and the guy would likely get charged and just the simple charging of him would cost him his job, let alone his behavior. But I think, based on what I saw there, the guy's losing his job and he's probably going to get charged as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Okay, I like that. And charging by the the way is just our recommendation. That you know. It's like, oh, that guy should be charged, true, but then it goes to a county attorney and they have prosecutorial discretion. Um, they have to put a case before a jury. There's, there's a lot more steps that I don't think that the general public doesn't understand. Besides, like what, just press charges? Like that's great, that's our recommendation to law enforcement of hey, county attorney or district attorney, whatever you have in your jurisdiction, hey, these are the charges that I believe are applicable, based on what I have. Then it goes to them and they do whatever they want. People don't understand the county attorney has the ultimate discretion in charging, dismissing, changing, upgrading, downgrading, whatever they want to do. And so, just because you know, as law enforcement, we might say, hey, this is what we think. Cases get pled and dropped and change every single day throughout this country and every single jurisdiction without exception.
Speaker 3:And that's a victim crime. So here's what's going to happen Either the victim's going to say I want to press charges and most likely, even if he doesn't, let's say he's drunk, he's high, whatever. You're going to have detectives go and say, hey look, you were assaulted, Do you want to press charges? The guy may say, no, I don't want to press charges. I was acting terrible, I was spitting on the dudes, I deserved it. He may say that he still may get charged. We still may submit charges to the county attorney's office, Like Frank said. Then the county attorney determines whether they're going to follow through on those charges. But on a case like that, we're probably going to submit charges, with or without the victim wanting to be the victim. It certainly would make a lot. It makes the case a lot stronger if the victim says, yeah, I want to be charged or I want to charge him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and uh, ozark moon. She said, uh, or he, he or she, I can't remember, ozark, you're a female, I believe, if I, if I'm remembering correctly. Um, that is where, uh, things always seem to fail once the DA or PA drops it and no charges. This is one of my. Okay, there's been a huge push in policing for transparency and accountability. That push has been happening the last 10 years of law enforcement. Great, that's why we got body cameras. That's why we've got police departments now throwing out their own press conferences within 24 hours of an incident happening.
Speaker 1:Sheriff Lamb, you were always really good at communication with your people. What we don't see is we don't see any transparency and accountability with prison systems. We don't see any transparency and accountability with our court system. No one pushes for that. And who takes the brunt of that? We do Because, like you said, we'll throw charges up there and usually we throw the heaviest ones we can find. We let the DA deal with their discretion and what they want to do, but when they drop and lower the charges or don't do the charges, who gets the face value of that? We do, yeah, where the fuck is the accountability for them?
Speaker 3:We have that. We had an older guy and a younger guy guy neighbors end up getting into a little scuffle. The older guy pulls a gun out and just starts shooting at him and this dude's running up you know, running across the street and bullets are hitting them. Do you remember this one, frank?
Speaker 2:I do.
Speaker 3:I don't know what you're talking about the other houses and he hits the guy like seven times. Oh, she's like seven. Younger guy goes to the hospital. We arrest the older guy, charge him with I saw the deadly weapon attempted murder. We charge him with all of it. The next morning the guy's already home before the and the family is just they're mad and they just start going off on us.
Speaker 3:For a couple days and I you know they were angry and I tried to communicate with the family, like hey, you're not helping the case they're going to if you're saying that we didn't do a good job. Finally, I had to do a video and just say, hey, my guys did a great job, we arrested the guy, we put him in jail. I can't help it if the judge gives him a 50 000 bond. That's not on. How's that on us? And as soon as we did that, as soon as we said, look, our guys did our job, we put the guy in jail, we charged him, and then all of a sudden the judge lets him out. I'm frustrated too and so, um, it doesn't always work out the way you want it to work out. Lawyers don't always do the right thing. Judges we're seeing on a national level are really not doing a great job, so yeah, it's a problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, deadleg, have you in your experience? Is that what you were seeing as well? As far as the court system goes? Were you seeing a lot of discretion that goes unnoticed or unchallenged?
Speaker 5:It's like all the time because no one ever follows through with things. I look at like law enforcement is in the government. It's kind of like we're the front desk of customer service. They bring every issue to that table and then want it to be resolved at that table. When you bring your issues to customer service, chances are you're going to deal with a manager. You're going to deal with all kinds of different departments, like the people that you deal with every day today. They have nothing to do with those things, but they always get held responsible for it.
Speaker 5:We had an issue. I worked on a federal installation and I worked in Hawaii and there was an area that was a beach, of course, and there was trying to pull people out of the beach because people were complaining about the issue. And we went back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. I'm like, look guys. I said if we start charging these people, it's going to go. They're going to go and they're going to end up going to the DA and the DA is going to drop these charges because there's nothing here. We can't charge them for being in an area that they're allowed to be at.
Speaker 5:So on the back end of things, these complaints you have to explain to people complaining about like this is what happens. You make the complaint, this is the system, this is the flow, because a lot of the problem, a lot of the issues that you're going to have in LA or a lot of the issues you're going to have anywhere, it's just people are mad because they don't know. As soon as they find out, like, oh that's why this is going on, that's why this thing is very ugly, but okay, now that I get explained it, now I know, now I understand. So a lot of it is just an education.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to kind of touch on what Andy Fletcher is saying here. He said you arrest us all before. Before all that, why not your fellow cops too? Well, one like, let's use this, this encounter, for instance. Let's say charges are going to be brought on that cop. They're not going anywhere. We know who they are. We're going to be able to take their firearm from them and be able to take their badge from them or do whatever. It just depends on what the circumstances is. But let's say this particular one, that's going to be reported and done just like anything else.
Speaker 1:The reason why a citizen would be arrested is because we don't know who you are. We have an offense on view. We have to make the arrest rate then, and there, versus with an officer, it's a little different. We don't know the whole story necessarily and we don't know if it's within the authority of their position. He may have seen something that those other cops didn't see, and that can be the difference. It's not an excuse, but that can be the difference. But you guys got anything to add on? That is why we don't arrest the cop immediately, versus how we would a citizen.
Speaker 2:I mean arrest is such a generic term because you're you're still, charges are going to be filed. So I can long form someone. They're still under arrest. I mean I I write people tickets every day. They're still under arrest, called site and release or a citation in lieu of detention. You're still like, if applicable, and at the end of an investigation, which is what we're there to do is conduct full and thorough investigations. If charges are filed, you have been arrested, you've been arrested, charges have been filed. You just like I mean it's, it's it. It needs to go through the proper steps and we don't walk up to every call and arrest everyone without doing an investigation. Well, there's going to be an investigation here and there's going to be an interview and eventually it's going to end up in the same place, which is in the court of law.
Speaker 1:And I get you know what's his name Shit, andy Fletcher. He's saying bullshit. You think you're above the law? No, it has nothing to do with that. One of the problems that I have with what you're trying to say, andy, and it's you want something immediate because it happens to other people, and that's a childish like mentality. You want something to happen instantly because it happened to the other guy.
Speaker 3:Well, that's what you did to him, but you didn't do it to this guy. Grow up. I'm going to tell you right now if you saw, take the police out of it. If you saw two guys fighting like that. First of all, arizona has a mutual combat state, so somebody has to want to be a victim. That's first of all. Second of all, even if they're separated and no longer is a threat, the majority of time, 80 plus percent of the time we do not take people to jail. We issue them a citation for assault. If there was serious bodily injury or it's an ag assault or somebody really gets hurt, then yeah, we're probably going to take that person to jail, but the majority of them end in a citation for assault. And then you are at, you have to show up to a court and defend yourself for it. So it's a fallacy. And that's the thing is.
Speaker 3:We got a lot of people chiming in on here that have never been done the job. You know like it's really easy to be. I could sit and tell you about your job, whatever these guys's jobs are like. I could go sit there and be like you didn't do that right. You didn't do that right. You know it's like anybody can do that. I come do the job. I will you know. If you're up for it, let's do it and show us how it's done.
Speaker 5:If you, could pass the background I have andy, I have I I have referred charges to someone who I was working with while they were working and I can tell you what happens. I took everything and I retained it as physical evidence. I took it to the outside agency, which is my case, was NCIS Handed everything over to them, gave my first statement and that was it. Fair enough, that was it. There was nothing more that I could do at the end of the day. Fair enough, that was it there.
Speaker 5:There was nothing more that I could do at the end of the day, the next morning, they pulled his gun and badge and told him that he couldn't do anything, while they retained why they did this investigation. And there was much, much, much more to the story. But as soon as like, like, they're explaining, like, the reason why a lot of like for like, tickets for like for like a dui, a dui. You're going to arrest someone because you need to bring them in. There's evidence and things like that. I suspended driver's license. You can process that on the side of the scene. I know everything I need to do. Right there. You can have someone else with a driver's license come out, take the car. I give you your ticket, you're. I don't need to take you down the jail. I have identified you. I don't need to go through all that process. Same thing with the police officers. You're going right through the thing. But even at the end of the day, to save a long story from the middle of it, nothing happened. I caught this guy on duty commit forgery, not once, but twice, on two of my cases and nothing happened. You not think that I was salty. I was a police officer in a place with other police officers and a police officer committed forgery. I caught him red-handed and nothing happened.
Speaker 5:So, as a police officer, you don't think that I get frustrated or I would get frustrated. I would understand as a civilian. If you get mad at the police because you try to do something, you're not looking for the reaction that you're getting. You're going to get frustrated. A lot of it's this education is that's what we're trying to do, is it's in between. It's not as cut and dry as it's going to be. I get the police officers driving drunk. I will pull up how many videos I can pull up. Right now, police officers get in the accident at work in their patrol car and get arrested in their uniform. It happens all the time. You just don't see it. All the time, you just don't see it all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, why don't you see it? Because the media doesn't cover it. Why doesn't the media cover it? Because you're doing what you're supposed to do. They only want the shit. That is juicy, which is part of the problem, and I've told people, just at my department alone, every single year there's been at least one and there's been multiple on multiple years. But in the last 14 years that I've been at the department, I'm at somebody who's been arrested and charged every year that I've been there. You never see it on the news. Why? Because we're holding our people accountable like we're supposed to be doing.
Speaker 1:You, just when you make that argument, andy, you know I'm not trying to call you out specifically, but when you make that argument, really what I hear is well, I want them to do it right then and there. And instead of looking at the big picture, the big picture is at the end of the day guess what? They get charged and they go to court for it. Whether it happens the day that it occurred or it happens five days later, who gives a flying fuck? I don't. I just want to see justice served, and when they're on duty, I will give you that argument.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it typically doesn't happen while they're on duty, unless it's something like what Deadleg was referring to it's a DWI, it's something like that. We have the body cam video, we have the investigation. We're going to run through the gambit. And then the other thing that you guys don't even consider and, sheriff, maybe you could say something to this is jail space. You know how frustrated I've gotten, where I make a legitimate arrest and I'm told this guy's got to kick rocks. We just have to put it on paper because the jail doesn't have space. They're only taking the most violent of felons.
Speaker 3:Nah, man, we didn't have that problem you didn't have arrested, you went to jail. You know if, if you got arrested, handcuffs on um and you didn't get a citation and they booked you in. We never kicked anybody away because we didn't have enough space. That's not, you know. You went and you saw your judge and you went through the whole process. Nah, we've had Brother I got to take off, though I got to jump off, I didn't realize the time.
Speaker 1:No worries, brother, it gets fun right. Thank you guys everybody.
Speaker 3:Thanks for everybody chiming in.
Speaker 1:No worries, brother, I appreciate you. Thank you very much, sir.
Speaker 2:Take it easy.
Speaker 1:Quit calling him boss. He's not your boss.
Speaker 2:I know, of course I have it.
Speaker 1:Right, but yeah, what big picture. I just explained the big picture. The big picture is at the end of the day, they're still getting charged and they're still going through the process, just like they would if they got arrested the day of, or five days later, or two days later or whatever. So I love y'all, don't get me wrong, we're not always going to agree. I'm just glad you guys are coming to the table to have the discussions, but this is the one where you know if it's something that is so egregious that we we can like driving drunk on duty, yeah, ok, I get it. But not every single thing is as clear cut as it appears, and that's where the investigations come in.
Speaker 2:And we long form people every single day.
Speaker 1:Can you explain what you mean by long form?
Speaker 2:The long form is simply just not booking someone in the jail. But maybe you need more parts of the investigation. You need toxicology back, whatever it may need to do interviews, need to find victims or witnesses or whatever. So instead of booking that person in the jail on that night, you file what's called a charging review. You send that information, all the charges and paperwork report to the county attorney, district attorney, whoever it may be, and then they make the decision if they're going to charge that person, what they're going to charge them with, and then they're issued a court date. If they don't appear for the court date, a warrant's issued and it goes like that.
Speaker 2:It's just a. It's a different way that criminal charges flow through the system, different than like what would be if you were booked. It would be different. If you're issued a citation in lieu of detention, it's different. There's just kind of three different ways. All roads lead to the mountain. It's just a different avenue, one that's typically longer. I mean you spending time in detectives. You know you would, I'm sure you long form people. We do it in DUI cases and felony DUI cases in any vehicular crimes investigation. Very typically we're filing long form charges on that once we end up doing downloads and search warrants and all sorts of stuff. So it is a broader investigations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm going to go to the comments section here. I the knight, who's a regular with us. He said two cops, one donut. I think one of the biggest things for me personally is I hold cops to a higher standard. I think cops should hold themselves to a higher standard. I think you personally do, eric, and I agree and I'm with you on that. And there's no way for me to sit here and argue that police do hold themselves to a higher standard when we know that I have shared a ton of things where cops are not holding themselves to a higher standard. So is there work to be done? Absolutely Do. I think the majority of cops hold themselves to a higher standard? I do, but there are some that don't and I think it's a systemic and cultural issue with where their departments are, and I've pointed those ones out. But he continues to. But I don't think that most folks see how cops handle each other in public as holding them to that high standard, fair and just like Andy was trying to get to.
Speaker 1:They didn't arrest him immediately and they would have arrested a civilian immediately. I agree, I do think you're right. I think they would have. I think they would have arrested a civilian immediately. But the reason I think that is is because we don't know the civilian. We got to get all that information. We have the assault on view versus if it is a cop, there again there has to be an investigation, there's a process and he may have seen something. Again we won't know. So until we figure that out, he could be arrested an hour later. He just wasn't arrested right then and there, and and I get it, I understand what you're saying and he's saying it's not the same. Not the same.
Speaker 5:I'm didn't say we don't know what the whole rest of that case was, but let's just say that the guy in handcuffs, uh, is handcuffed there because he just drowned a baby and after he drowned a baby he sat there with a baby's dead body and talked shit to dispatch the entire time and then when police got there, he talked shit and antagonized the cops about just killing a baby. Do you not think, as a human being, that there's an emotional response that a human will have? That's the problem that we have to understand. The person behind the badge is still human. They're going to have an emotional reaction. Do I give them agree with it? No. Do they think they should be charged with that? Yes, but do you throw them down right there on the scene? No, that's where you pull them aside. Hey, steve, you're going to answer for this one tomorrow. Go home.
Speaker 1:Self-proclaimed hero Steve Sorry for that other and Andy's saying that's not justice. Justice is at the end, justice is not instant ever.
Speaker 5:And then what is justice? Justice becomes subjective. Justice for you is one thing. Justice for the person on the other side of the case is completely different.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep and Nevia says investigation seriously, when did those happen with civilians? Copsplain it Easy. Warrants that's how you explain when an investigation is done on the civilian side. Warrants you get arrested on warrants. There was an investigation done because you weren't arrested on the spot and then they find out that they have probable cause for an arrest, so they write a warrant. So the investigation was already complete. And that's what ends up happening. There's your cop splination. Um, let's see, go into the comments. Uh, you put completely sober people in jail for dui because they wouldn't roll their window down.
Speaker 2:I think not rolling their window down is a failure to identify. I think there's a there's, there are failure to obey lawful order, there's all sorts of other stuff. It's not DUI related. It's the fact that that person's probably being a jerk and not obeying specific portions of motor vehicle laws required. So there's, it's not a DUI thing. I mean it could, that could. The cause of that could be impairment, which obviously affects judgment.
Speaker 2:But, like Arizona, you have to provide ID. It's 28, 15, 95 B driver has to provide evidence of identity on your traffic stop. You fail to do that. It's a criminal offense, it's a misdemeanor. That means I can, yes, pull you out of your car and arrest you, Not because you're DUI, but because you failed to provide evidence of identity. We've beat this to death all over the place a whole bunch of times. It's just no matter what people that have graduated from YouTube Law College believe. At least in the state of Arizona, which is the only place that I can speak to, you have to present evidence of identity if you're stopped in a civil traffic violation.
Speaker 2:No, matter what your thoughts are or your beliefs are. If you're driving a vehicle, you're on the roadway, you're stopped for a civil traffic offense. You have to provide evidence of identity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, stop for a civil traffic offense, you have to provide evidence of identity. Yeah, now, it is different state to state, though, cause what I learned is in Arizona y'all have to provide it physically so you can physically examine and it's set um.
Speaker 2:there are specific requirements that an identification has to have. So, like you can't give someone a credit card and be like, here's my identification. It has my name on it. That doesn't fly because it doesn't have a height, a weight, an address, date of birth. There has my name on it. That doesn't fly because it doesn't have a height, a weight, an address, date of birth.
Speaker 1:There's certain things that are all delineated within Arizona state law about what's accepted as a form of identification, right yeah. And in Texas, like for us and I've told my officers this before they're like they're just putting their ID on the window. I'm like, as long as you can get the information you need, that's all they need to do.
Speaker 2:I'll even take that. Someone said what's the citation In Arizona Revised Statute or ARS? It's 28, which is Title 28, 1595, subsection B, as in Bravo.
Speaker 1:Jesus Christ, I don't know all that shit. I haven't written a ticket in so long. From my understanding, the ticket book isn't even the same as what it was when I got issued. Everything's electronic now. We don't even, we don't even write. Oh no, we still have a physical. We have the electronic option. I have that in my well. When I had a patrol car, I had that in my patrol car, but I I couldn't have told you even how to use it. I have no clue. Hey, I'm good.
Speaker 2:someone just wrote in there that, uh, you roll your window down two inches and pass me the paperwork. I am a thousand percent good with that. I would, all day long I would take that. I'm. I am great with it. It lets me write my ticket. I slide it right back through that little sling. You have your ticket. You can go to court, deal with it. I don't have to talk to you. Awesome, I have no problem with that.
Speaker 1:It depends, okay. Where I do have a problem with it is if I cannot hear you, if I'm trying to get information or something that I have a lawful reason to get. Now, again, I don't, I don't right, you know yeah, you're not. You're not doing traffic stop yeah, I like to do real police work so behind your desk at the real-time crime center like let me look at this guy, he missed the slam enhance yeah I like to.
Speaker 1:Like I said, I like to do real police work. So if I am pulling somebody over, it's usually for some sort of violent offense. Um, but uh that if I need to be able to hear you in certain circumstances, so if you just crack your window and I'm next to a busy freeway and I can't hear shit, well then that becomes a problem. But yes, for the most part I'm with you on that too. Same thing, but I know some of my people that follow us on here they don't like that excuse, but I have shit hearing as it is.
Speaker 2:So if I really if I can't go out on the side of the road. Yes, and that I tell people all the time I'm like. Yell at me so I can hear you, I'm standing.
Speaker 1:But yes, 85% of cops have ego brain worms, I don't know. Oh okay, there are a lot of cops with egos.
Speaker 2:I absolutely can't disagree with that. As a practicing and a student of stoicism and a practicing stoic, I try to not let my ego involved and really very, very heavily rely on just logic and facts. Um, I do it in my, in my personal life also, so it's it's not just something I turn on and off, it is how I live my life. Um, I have very, very few emotional responses, Um, and they are absolutely absent. Um, people who are in my inner circle and people who I love and trust and respect, Um, but like someone, some random person on the road, says something like I don't really care what they say because they, they don't mean anything to me. Now, Sheriff lamb, who who's in my inner circle? My, my best friend, my, um, you know, my dad, my, my sister, someone who's really in my inner circle, my girlfriend? Um, someone says something and I value their opinion. Now, that's very different, Right? But just like some random person on the road says something to me like yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know you, so a little different.
Speaker 1:And to Nevia's point. Here she said you can take your policy and put it where the sun don't shine. I don't answer questions. Take my paperwork and do your dang job Fair.
Speaker 2:I'm with that. You know what my job is going to be Writing you tickets and we can go to court and you can talk to the judge. And if you don't want to talk to the judge, then you deal with them Like that's not, that's none of that's my problem, Like here's your ticket. I observed like vaya con Dios, I know that Be with God.
Speaker 1:I know a little Spanish, Steve. He said something other than self-proclaimed hero, so I'm going to give him a little shot here. He said if you pull someone over on a busy highway and can't hear, that's your problem. Okay, that's a fair argument.
Speaker 2:I'm good with that. I'm totally good with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what I I'm totally good with it. Yeah, you know what? I never really thought of it that way, that's fair.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I can't, that's absolutely, that is a me problem. And then I decide how I'm going to react to you saying, hey, I'm not going to talk louder. I'm like, okay, well, I don't need that information, then it's not a big deal.
Speaker 1:You know what, steve, you just made me self-reflect. I never really thought of it that way. It is my problem, okay? So yeah, I'm good with that at the next exit so I can hear you. So that that would be, uh, the compromise to that. I didn't think of it as a me problem. So, yeah, you're actually right on that, steve, I'll take it. You see what happens when you don't just troll, buddy you don't take it you make it.
Speaker 1:I like it don't reflect. I like that steve steve's on the board. Steve is finally on the board. I like it. Um, beards and meat. I like a beard and meat. That's a fucking awesome name beard and meat. Hey guys, found the stream a few weeks ago, commented that I was going to go through the process of my local pd. Passed the polygraph last week, waiting to get pulled from the eligibility list. Now legit congratulations all right, bro, good luck, don't fuck it up don't mess it up uh, that's very cool.
Speaker 1:Um, somebody asked earlier if we were going to get to the videos. Yes, we're going to get to the videos. Sorry, we this is what happens. We talk a lot, listen. Okay, guys, I want to give you my priority list. My priority list is one get to the guest that at least took the time to come out and talk. So we did that. And then my second priority is getting to your guys' questions and your comments. The videos are the third thing I want to get to. So if we're having discussion and you guys are answering questions or not giving the answers you want to hear, or whatever, I'm going to put that to the forefront. So that's what we did tonight. I like it. We definitely handled y'all's questions.
Speaker 5:Anybody that's got a very, very strong opinion about law enforcement, I would invite you to go to your local law enforcement and just do a ride-along.
Speaker 2:Do a ride-along.
Speaker 5:Just do a ride-along. If you think that you have such an idea of what it is, just do a ride along one night. Within two to three hours you are going to completely look at this like completely different. I've never, not once, seen someone go through the shoot, don't shoot scenarios and come out completely changed. Or someone that had an opinion on law enforcement and ride along didn't change it by the end of it, completely changed it. And I'm not saying that change it Like we're all on the same side. We're all bootlickers. Things like cause the end of the day, we all just want to get to the end of the day, that's it.
Speaker 5:So when we're stopping you on the side of the road nine times out of the 10, we're just stopping you for, like what Frank will say. I'm just stopping this guy for speeding. Yeah, he might have a DUI or yeah, he might have a suspended license. Yeah, he might have a warrant. But the reason why I'm initially talking to him is just for speeding. It doesn't have to be anything more than that. It doesn't have to be. Oh, we're going to play the don't answer questions game. It can just be. Hey, you were speeding. There's a lot of people that are going to be out here a lot of pedestrians. Just hey, slow down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hey, slow down, yeah, super easy.
Speaker 2:That's all it has to be I don't have an answer for this.
Speaker 1:Does anybody else? Kingslayer said what case law exhibit means Exhibit means grant physical assets.
Speaker 2:I would imagine that you're in the US stuff and that is probably specified in each individual state law.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to say, like I said, in Texas they don't have to provide physical, but I remember somebody sharing, actually, one of your videos, frank, and I think you had demanded physical access to their, their license, and you, I think you even stated what it was, and that's how I knew. In Arizona the state law is that, um, physical inspection of a valid license or something to that effect. It is.
Speaker 2:And you know what I'd have to? I'd have to look up what the actual subsection where that is in there, because it's it's like I need to get my hands on a book and look through it. But what you can't just say is, hey, this is my name. That does not work. That does not work. Um, so you, you can't just say, hey, my name is bob smith, that's great, but that is not. That doesn't identify yourself, because there could be 200 bob smiths and five of them can have warrants, um, so that's, that doesn't. That doesn't meet the requirement.
Speaker 1:So all right for all you scroll through.
Speaker 2:Flock all day.
Speaker 1:Well, freaking nevia already said said how long do you think it'll be before Eric gets two inches on his waistline? Listen, I'm still in the military. I have to maintain physical standards. The beauty of where I work now is I don't even have to wear a uniform. I can show up in gym shorts. I can go work out and then go do my job. That is the benefit that I have of my new spot. Yes, I will still keep working out, y'all.
Speaker 2:Okay, and Navea, you, you are absolutely correct. Some States say present, not um, not relinquish, Uh, some say exhibit. It is like I said this it's, that is not a federal level. You're talking about state stuff, so it depends on what state you're at. Everything's, that's why I? Always preface it with hey, this is arizona. This is the stuff I know. New mexico is on one side, california is on the other, utah is on the other.
Speaker 1:Could be different in all three of those places also yeah so I'm just gonna, I'm gonna step off, I'll be right back, don't go, no worries, I think kingslayer may have got us, though he said uh, at least what he looked up says after stopping as required by subsection A of this section, the operator or motor vehicle who fails or refuses to exhibit the operator's license. I don't know, but, like I said, I, and then some of these names Sebulus Maximus such a cool name Said People v Williams 2013. Maybe that's the case that we're talking about Illinois case law. So, all right, let me. Let's get to a video. I don't again, we're going to give credit to all of our body cam videos that we're going to watch tonight, to Police Activity YouTube channel.
Speaker 1:Let me share their screen here, Share screen Boom, we will biggie size this one. Boom, there we go. So I'm actually going to turn the chat overlay off real quick so we can make the screen a little bigger. And remember, we have not watched this. If we have watched it, we will let you guys know. And here we go.
Speaker 5:Hopefully we can hear it Deadleg let me know if you can hear this Yep, we're good Okay 580.
Speaker 4:580.
Speaker 5:Yeah, on your 54 subject, I got him down down here. How many javany middle, if you'll start me a central male white, white hat I like what he's doing already.
Speaker 1:This is I. I would, uh, do a similar approach, except I would stop driving. I would stop completely, just pull over the road, turn my lights on. And the reason that I would do it that way is because, if I do need backup, because I don't know what a 54 is for, whatever this department is, I can tell you right now it doesn't match what my department is. But whatever it is, he's wanting to wait for somebody else to get with him before he approaches him, which I think is a smart play. That's the safe play. That's what I would do.
Speaker 5:So person with a weapon person.
Speaker 1:Google's good tonight. Yeah, it's definitely not what it is for us.
Speaker 5:Well, I might go to where he's at, cause he was at a cross, at a T intersection. I might go a little bit further to where he's at, but then I'd stop right there, especially if he's potentially has a weapon and I'm getting into a crime scene. This is my vehicle. Is going to stop other vehicles from coming down this way too.
Speaker 1:True, so let's keep going here.
Speaker 5:So now I'm looking at hands. That's all I really care about.
Speaker 1:Sounds like he's seen it, yeah.
Speaker 5:I would have stopped Just because all those cars are going to pass. Those are now in your backdrop.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 5:That's another car in your backdrop.
Speaker 1:Maybe even loud, hail them. This just happened this morning. Did it really? Oh shit, it did, goddamn Wow.
Speaker 3:Fast with this one.
Speaker 1:Accountability and transparency. They got this shit out there quick For me. I'm not even opposed to loud hailing over the PA and being like hey bro, can you do me a favor? Just get out of the road and just make it seem chill. Maybe try to keep that, you know, chill, playful, uh tone. So maybe we get, um, some compliance, some deescalation, before it gets crazy. If I know the you know police activities page, everything's always crazy, so he's definitely keeping that left hand. Oh yeah, that's a gun.
Speaker 5:Oh, there it is. Yeah, that's. Definitely a gun. I'm getting my rifle ready.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, this chain I am too. I was just thinking that I'm like I'm all about a rifle right now.
Speaker 1:Yep. And the reason behind the rifle for anybody listening that doesn't use firearms or anything is it's more accurate at longer distance for sure. So in something like this, every shot matters. You can't and your backdrop's terrible that's yeah, and you have a terrible backdrop, so you want to make sure you get accurate rounds on target with this.
Speaker 5:At this point. I'm stopping, though, because I'm not letting cars keep him alive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's a hard. You got to put up a hard barrier or not, Because he could turn and fire a round through any one of those cars and we own it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is not normal behavior. So we can already say like one do we have an offense. So for anybody wondering, if we have an offense, you may be a really pro to a person. You have an offense. You've got a guy walking in a city area with a gun, unholstered, so that in itself is usually I don't know what city or state you live in, but usually that's a problem um, and then he's in a public roadway, which is also frank. You're, you're a traffic guy, that's definitely. It's definitely traveling offense.
Speaker 2:Uh yeah, you can't, you can't be walking in the road and and yeah, yeah, just, you know all all of this is and I'm I mean we've watched videos of me with guns. I love people with guns. I think everyone should should carry a gun all the time. However, this is not good for the public.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep Eye of the Knight. Said rifle is much easier to keep stable and I absolutely agree, absolutely agree with that also. Yep.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I'm not getting that close to this dude that's a big ass handgun.
Speaker 1:All right, I'm automatically getting suicide by cop vibes. Uh, right away. Um, I believe this was to draw attention, but dead leg. What's your vibe on this so far?
Speaker 5:yeah now I would have definitely made sure the car's position at a blade, because if I'm getting to the point where I'm going to take rounds, I want to make sure that I'm stopping my I don't know. I just keep going back to the every car that passes. That's potentially another person that he's going to shoot at, or another potential person in the backdrop so okay.
Speaker 1:So I'll ask the question could we run him over right now?
Speaker 2:I don't think we're there. Nope, I don't think so either no.
Speaker 1:So it's a hard position to be in and, knowing the difference between cover and concealment, uh, your car is is great concealment but it's terrible for cover, meaning stopping bullets. The only thing in that car that's going to stop bullets is hopefully the engine block, uh, maybe the axles.
Speaker 2:Brake pads.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:Those will stop one. Really Now if that guy, if that guy raised that gun up um like towards one of those cars, I think you run him over immediately.
Speaker 5:Oh, for sure.
Speaker 2:Because I think you are absolutely defensive of third party. He fires one round into any one of those cars and instantly kills someone. Yes, and the longer that he's there, the more liability as a department we take, because there is this steadily increasing liability of him being out there. Obviously you look back, you see a car. I'm sure this cop's got his lights on, um, you know it's. So now you know the cops are there. They're giving you a lawful order. There's all of these compound. Now you're being able to build a case that you know, yeah, you're really.
Speaker 2:You're getting real close to being able to to shoot this guy, to save every single vehicle that's driving by, the driver, occupants, kids, other citizens on the sidewalk, I mean there's yeah, yeah, and unfortunately it's.
Speaker 1:It's a growing um tactic for people to use police for suicide. Okay he's disobeying your orders, which okay. Now you've got something to go on. Hey, I'm going to get on the radio right now. Hey, I've commanded this guy a couple times. He's looked at me and then ignored me.
Speaker 5:Wayne has gone from kind of swinging the weapon in his left hand to now he's got it in front of him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's kind of sealing it in a way yeah, Okay All right he's on the sidewalk, we're good.
Speaker 5:Those vibes were the. I'm on a path quick and turn.
Speaker 2:I got that too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, his lights are going, I can see him. Yeah, you see him flashing off that too. Yeah, his lights are going, I can see him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I see him flashing off that sign Yep, yep, right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm going to be every single time. Here it comes, yep, so I'm going to pause it. I'm going to let you know that right now, if that gun even remotely starts to raise, I'm laying lead downrange.
Speaker 2:That's a good backdrop. There too, you have brick building. You've got that traffic control box right there.
Speaker 1:Yep, I would be a little concerned about the windows and door over here. This looks to be about 25 yards-ish if you consider the length of a vehicle. Yeah, roughly, that's my guess.
Speaker 4:Down, put the gun down.
Speaker 1:If I'm the guy in the Bronco, my windows are going to be down. I would have been listening, but I'm very hypervigilant, I think right now, if there's someone else walking up that sidewalk, windows are going to be down.
Speaker 2:I would have been listening, but I'm very hyper vigilant. I mean, I think I think right now, if there's someone else walking up that sidewalk, I think you're. You're starting to really be able to articulate the defense of a third party because of all of the, the totality of him obviously recognizing you're a law enforcement officer, you're a failure to obey lawful commands, um, the fact that you're walking down the street in a city with a gun, that's bad, like all of this is bad.
Speaker 1:Steve Ladner said why does he need to put the firearm down if he hasn't done anything wrong?
Speaker 2:Because he's done something wrong by displaying it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can't. You cannot walk around with a firearm in that manner. There's laws on that, and you also. He was a firearm in that manner, there's laws on that, and you also. He was in the roadway walking. So you already got an offense, so you've got a reason to make contact. And then, steve, I want to kind of give you the whole the reasonable imprudence of a person. That's kind of the standard when it comes to making an argument in court. A reasonable and prudent person isn't going to continue walking away from a police officer with a gun in hand and this fully marked police cruiser with lights on. All of these factors are a reason why this is unlawful. A reasonable, prudent person is not going to do this. So it goes into mindset and is what his intent is and all of that. These are all part of that. Um, so will cray said brandishing. That that could be just depends on what the uh brandishing every state has a different law yeah, they have slightly different elements of that.
Speaker 1:Like in texas, if you're going to um transport a uh pistol, it's got to be in your holster. It's got to be a holstered weapon. Now it can be completely visible, but you cannot have your weapon out in hand in a city area unless there's defenses to prosecution for it. So if you're defending yourself, if I'm a cop and I come around the corner and your gun's out and you're pointing it at something and you already just shot somebody and you're about to shoot somebody or a coyote, whatever it is, that is a defense to be in charge. But what we see right now he has no defense. He's not. He's not obeying any orders or any of that.
Speaker 2:I can't believe there's no other cops there.
Speaker 1:I don't know what city it is.
Speaker 2:I wonder what city it is. It's in Nashville, nashville, oh. Nashville yeah, yeah, what's it going to shift change at 9 o'clock man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, david Edmondson. Spoiler alert he ain't making it to court, just saying I have not seen this video, so Code one injuries.
Speaker 5:It kills me just the amount of cars that keep driving around in the cop car with the lights on.
Speaker 2:It's unbelievable. I was thinking the same thing. David's going to piss some people off.
Speaker 1:They're going to get mad. It's going to piss some people off. They're going to get mad. It's going to ruin it. I mean with all due respect.
Speaker 5:He said spoiler alert. We don't have the duck quacks like Donut does.
Speaker 4:I know.
Speaker 1:Oh, fyi, the reason why we didn't do a live, we got a community strike. So for those that were wondering why we hadn't done a live on time, somebody complained made a report about one of the videos we posted.
Speaker 3:Jesus, yeah, there are cars going around.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, sir you have a lot of background.
Speaker 1:But yeah, we got a community strike strike and so you can't post anything for seven days and I had blurred out everything. I blurred out the violence. It was the hostage rescue. I don't know if you've seen that video, frank, but a guy or I think actually it was a lady whatever pulls a knife on a dude gets him as like a hostage. You hear the?
Speaker 2:guy. Oh, is that where the cop just walks up and just goes? Yeah, drop the knife, drop the knife, love it love that so um that's exactly how every hostage situation should be yeah, it was a great hostage rescue.
Speaker 1:But I blurred everything out and I even did, uh, a duck, sound a squeaky duck, not not um, donuts, um. For the gunfire. I was like, all right, that should be good, because good. Because you can't see anything, can't see any of the violence, can't see the blood, can't see anything. But somebody reported it. I appealed it on YouTube and I still got a community strike. They didn't take my appeal. So we couldn't do anything for seven days.
Speaker 2:Can you imagine being so fragile that seeing all of that blurred out still made you go? God, I got to go to YouTube and this can't be allowed out there.
Speaker 1:I just can't believe YouTube didn't didn't uphold my side of it. I was like you can't see anything.
Speaker 5:I'll bet you 10 bucks that I can find the video on YouTube tonight of the same thing of the same thing.
Speaker 1:It's on there, I know it is still alive. Yep, I'm like Of the same thing. It's on there, I know it is, it's still live. Yep, I'm like what the fuck? It's just the way it goes. So now I got to be good for 90 days.
Speaker 5:We lost Frank Nope. I'm right here, he's there.
Speaker 1:He probably had a sneeze or something.
Speaker 5:I thought YouTube was yelling at us. Already you see a cop car slow rolling behind a pedestrian. They're not making sure they get home safe.
Speaker 1:There's a reason they're following them, Steve that's not true, because they're fucking with this guy right now. He's the only one walking around like that.
Speaker 5:Oh, there's your pedestrian.
Speaker 2:Look at this guy what has absolutely no clue what's going on. Oh now you get it the fuck. Well, now he's got a catalyst. Yeah, Look at this guy. Now you got the emergency. Probably a good idea huh. Get my Starbucks and get out of here. Now I'm shooting.
Speaker 5:What, what is going on? How long do you have to wait a gun being pointed at you before you shoot?
Speaker 2:yeah, I don't even understand what I just saw I, I don't get that. I never want to see that again.
Speaker 1:Ozark. What the hell do you think they're going to see? Flowers and hugs, kingslayer. There are cops that still arrest people for the middle finger. Fragility knows all people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true. I can't disagree with you, man.
Speaker 1:I'll argue with you on that one. Jesus, lord knows, I post every single one of those videos. I see I'm like get the fuck out of here. So yeah, great point. Who said that one Kingslayer? Of course Kingslayer is dropping some good wisdom, no rifle.
Speaker 5:No.
Speaker 2:No level of physical fitness, no button to hold his duty belt.
Speaker 4:I was going to say no ask?
Speaker 1:no ask at all. He's on that prescription now what are you doing now?
Speaker 2:you're out of your car. Now we're just do, do, do, and this guy's going to die god damn, that was patient, I would have already shot him. I was pretty close.
Speaker 5:How close did he have to be though.
Speaker 2:In order for that guy to hit him.
Speaker 4:He raised his gun to throw it at me. Stop, stop, don't back.
Speaker 1:Go. Like I said, this was definitely suicide by cop.
Speaker 4:Drop the gun. Drop the gun. Drop the gun. No red dot. Drop the gun.
Speaker 3:Drop the gun Drop the gun Drop the gun.
Speaker 1:Metro Police drop the gun. Metro Police drop the gun. Drop the gun. Drop the gun, drop the gun. Metro Police, drop the gun. And here's the other thing Somebody's pointing a gun at you and you get from behind cover.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so guys, I, I for people that the only thing I could think of is that guy is running away and his backdrop is a whole bunch of windows right and he may not have the cop, I'm gonna play devil's advocate and just say that's a. That's a pretty far shot for a handgun. Uh, on a moving target, yeah, and your backdrop is terrible, and someone holding two caramel macchiatos just ran right that way yeah, whatever you will yeah, yeah, whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe tote milk, I don't know, maybe he's lactose intolerant. Yeah, um, but uh, you know, I'm gonna give that cop that he had just so much situational awareness to know that those rounds weren't going to hit target and we are responsible for every round, very different than than other places um, that he didn't shoot until he was 100% sure that he could hit his target.
Speaker 1:Yeah, devil's advocate, I'm with you on that. And then the other part is you know, maybe he knows his skill set, maybe he was like I'm just not confident in my ability to shoot him from here During a dynamic and, you know, stressful situation. He may be really amped up and just doesn't trust his own abilities, which respect that's, that's fine so not having a rifle without having a red dot.
Speaker 2:He is, he's already right.
Speaker 1:So, uh, oh, the point that I was uh about to get to too is you see, this guy. One of the things that happens with cops and you see it a lot in training is we get magnetized to the problem. You'll see us suck into places that we know we need to keep distance, and it's this magnet effect and you can kind of see it here at the beginning. Now, I don't blame him, he's got to follow this guy. Now does he go run back and jump in his car or does he go on foot? Well, that's for him to decide. I can't say that for him. I I think he did the right move here. Are we using things for cover? Metro police, drop the gun. I, I would have sucked up to this. Uh, yeah, here he uses it. He uses it.
Speaker 1:Okay, good, metro police, drop the gun, drop the gun, don't worry about you just from here secure the gun, secure the person, person, go into life-saving measures, that's the answer. I would handle that. So, yeah, crazy I would have. I personally would have been okay with him firing earlier, but, like we said, probably a suicide by cop and lo and behold, that's exactly what we had there.
Speaker 2:I'd like to know what that guy yelled as he ran at him.
Speaker 1:I don't know. Freedom, yeah, freedom. All right, let's go to the next video here. Share screen.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it was Nashville Metro.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's set it up on the upper left-hand corner. Sacramento police officer, all right.
Speaker 1:Okay, biggie size this guy? Yeah, all right. Somebody asked Frank, does Arizona still file charges on descendants? What the fuck does that mean?
Speaker 2:I don't know, brian, I am sorry, I don't. Decedents, decedents, decedents. So in other words, we kill him and then we file charges on him? I don't, I don't believe so.
Speaker 1:Oh, I said, I am not a homicide.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like you threw me with that. I was like I read that, I was like that's not the word that you said, um, so yeah and and not uh, not being homicide in in the homicide world, um, but I don't believe so, I do not believe that we, uh, we file charges on them but, I. I could be wrong. I I'm not. There's some things that I'm really good on and that is not in my purview all right, weird bed check yeah, harrison, talking shit on glocks.
Speaker 1:Shut your mouth, sir.
Speaker 2:I carry a Glock and I got a Glock around here somewhere.
Speaker 1:I've got like three or four of them that I carry A couple of them All. Right, let's, because I can't afford a staccato.
Speaker 2:Let's put it, I have one of those two. Fuck you.
Speaker 1:Show off.
Speaker 2:Now you know 32.
Speaker 1:Hey bud take your hand out of your pocket. Please Hand out of your pocket now. Take your hand out of your pocket.
Speaker 2:Good, I like seeing a gun out.
Speaker 1:Okay, curious what we got called here for. From what I'm reading, officer shoots a man brandishing a fake gun. So if I were a betting man, the call details were somebody was out brandishing a gun.
Speaker 2:So I'm with this cop get your gun out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely can't take any risk. When it's a person with a weapon 32, he's not compliant. Take your hand out of your pocket right now that's a long shot yeah, over a street, yeah, that's I'm gonna have one at gun.
Speaker 4:Maybe 45 yards.
Speaker 2:Again You've got uniformed law enforcement officer vehicle, red and blue lights, lawful commands.
Speaker 1:And pointing a gun at you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a reasonable a gun at you, yeah.
Speaker 1:A reasonable and prudent person.
Speaker 2:Marked police car.
Speaker 1:I like that. He's trying to go back and use the car for cover. That's a good way to use cover, because you got the whole engine block, you got a couple axles, so assuming he gets behind it, I don't want to do that, please. All right, we got another suicide by cop. He's already young. Just kill me Now in this. I'm not getting on the radio, nope, no, I'm not touching my everything.
Speaker 2:You've said everything you need to say. Yeah, I have one in gunpoint. He's not compliant. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Trust me, everyone within 20 miles is coming to you right now. Right, even people that know they're not going to get there on time but want to be a part of the call are going to be there. So uh I'm trying. I'm trying yeah, so on this, uh, you know again, stay off. This is one of the biggest mistakes we point out on here. Not to monday morning quarterback, but it's. It's an officer safety. We got a lot of officers that watch what we do. Please stay off the radio.
Speaker 2:Handle business, handle everyone's coming to help you yes please do not, do not stop. Oh, we got multiple off that's not good okay come back I can't see anything now you have someone with lethal lethal, so you could go less lethal if you wanted to yep, I, both hands looked empty to me.
Speaker 1:yep, um, in this case, now it's know your skill level, I'm gonna holster up and spear him. I've already made up my mind like, if I'm at this spot and I can see both hands, I I'm taking your ass to the ground, but I know what I'm doing. I've had a lot of grappling training so I'm comfortable with my own skill set on this. But everybody's got their go-tos. So, like Frank was saying, a taser would be fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, less lethal shotgun 40. There's all sorts of. I'm not a giant taser, taser fan, but I mean it's out there as an option.
Speaker 4:Do not, he's got. That's a gun.
Speaker 1:Do not. So he sees a gun, do not reach for that. I can see. Yeah you can see it there yeah, poking out of his back pocket. So now what you got to worry about is angles getting his budget. Look at all the people that are behind him right now yeah, or crossfire with your partner because he's split in the middle. So that's another problem. But now they've identified a weapon. I can't. It looks like a gun, I can't tell from here.
Speaker 2:He says it's a gun. But he said, yeah, he sees a gun Yep.
Speaker 4:That gun. Come back over this way Leave back door. Do not reach for that gun. Come back over this way leave backdrop, do not reach for that gun.
Speaker 1:He's saying he says it. That's great communication. Get here back behind me so we have the same backdrop. That was fucking beautiful. So he's and that's a great backdrop right there yeah, he's consciously thinking about the backdrop, so that's good. Wherewithal what he's got going on, do not put your hands in the air tells me he's not too amped up. He's thinking through Unnecessary radio communication right there. No need to put that out there. There's no need Deal with what you have in front of you. Great trigger discipline by the female officer.
Speaker 5:If you want to narrate things to yourself or say it out loud because you want to like, if you're going to listen to your body camera back, when I would do DUI stuff, I'd recite stuff out loud to myself so I can come back and I can review everything that I do, maybe that. But you don't have to get on the radio. Everything you need to say has already been said. You already got back up there. Everybody knows that they're coming. Because you don't have to get on the radio. Everything you need to say has already been said. You already got back up there. Yep, everybody knows that they're coming. Because you haven't said anything's code for you. You don't have suspect acosta yet. So I like we just great and then not so great, right, yeah?
Speaker 1:yeah, and, and I like the fact that, um, he is thinking about that stuff. But, like you said, say it for the body. I tell my rook rookies be the Morgan Freeman of your body camera, narrate your life. There's no need to jump on the radio.
Speaker 2:I have a question right now Is that guy's car locked? Ooh, yeah, because if you're going to let this guy walk you around your car which. I adamantly disagree with. I'm telling you right now I, just like you said, there's no way that I'm giving up ground there.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:We're going to talk and either it's going to be hard empty hands and we're going to go, or but I'm not going to let this guy chase me around my car. He's done more than a 360 around this car right now my car.
Speaker 1:He's done more than a 360 around this car right now. Yeah, and again it goes into knowing my skill level and what I'm confident in doing in this particular case. You know I can see the gun so I can let you get as close to me as you want. I'm going to holster up and take your ass to the ground even with that gun right there. Maybe it just depends, we'll see.
Speaker 5:One person talk.
Speaker 2:Here we go, Deescalation.
Speaker 5:Cool man Just talk to him Turn and face away, stay off the radio.
Speaker 1:We, we can help you Stay operating.
Speaker 4:We would like to help you. Do not reach for that gun. Do not reach for that gun.
Speaker 2:Do not reach for that gun. She's out of the fight. Do not Get your hand off her.
Speaker 1:Oh shit.
Speaker 2:Do not reach for that gun.
Speaker 1:We can help you.
Speaker 2:He's got his hand on the gun.
Speaker 1:That's a gun. In help you. Take your hand off the gun, take your hand off the gun.
Speaker 2:What kind of shooting platforms?
Speaker 5:do you have right now? Come on here. Behind that, no one's in the hard-free zone.
Speaker 4:Let us help you Come on, let us help you Keep going, keep going, all the way to the tree.
Speaker 1:All the way to the tree. Do not, do not, do not reach for the gun, don't reach for it.
Speaker 4:Get your hand off the gun.
Speaker 2:Get your hand off the gun.
Speaker 4:No, I cannot see, I cannot see, I cannot see. He's got, he's got the gun. Get back, get back.
Speaker 2:What are you doing? Get your hands off him.
Speaker 1:Oh Jesus, Leave her the fuck alone. Look, his gun's stove piped. He ain't out. Let's go. I got it. I got it. There's a motor there. That is insane.
Speaker 2:There we go. We just got a motor there. Take care of business.
Speaker 1:So I put out, I did a podcast with Reasons we Serve podcast with reasons we serve podcast, and I had a, a video that kind of went viral, where I was talking about how we rely too heavily sometimes on de-escalation to the point where it is unsafe yep 100, and this is exactly what the fuck I was talking about.
Speaker 1:I've never seen this video, but here's a prime example of exactly what I was talking about. No, police are always too heavy-handed they're. They're more about escalation than de-escalation. I told you guys. No, there are instances in departments, not all departments. There are some departments that are too heavy-handed, but there are some that are not heavy-handed enough. And this is the example. These guys put themselves in such a position because they're so heavily focused on de-escalation that they let a person pull a weapon and point it at them before they finally pulled the damn trigger, when they could have tased him a lot earlier. They could have handled business a lot sooner if they had just seen the signs and symptoms and tried to handle it that way. But because we pussyfooted around and then did this 360 around the vehicle, look what we ended up going to Deadly force. It ends up being worse in the end run. So let's keep going.
Speaker 4:Two every second, two, every second Sergeant, put your hands up, put your hands up Now.
Speaker 1:We got multiple people, put your hands up. This is another frustrating part for me the motor's cops talking. These two are talking.
Speaker 2:The best thing for that motor cop to have done would be grab a rifle off of his motorcycle and never say a word.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Just stand there, be in a stable shooting platform, be able to address the threat if it presents itself and just be there. You got a great l. You love l's.
Speaker 1:L's is what we have right now, while they're trying to figure out where they're going to run, but they're all converging. He's dictating the space.
Speaker 4:Look how close they are, sir.
Speaker 1:Get your hand off the gun, just get your hand off it.
Speaker 4:No, no, no, I cannot see, I cannot see, I cannot see.
Speaker 2:He's got the gun, he loses it. No, there it is. Shots fired Shots fired Down, you go.
Speaker 1:Insane, insane to me. Stop sharing. So, um, yeah, when I talk about de-escalation, actually I could probably find that video, let me, uh, I like that one, we will. We will watch that quick clip, um, because I don't remember exactly what I said on it, but I know I'm close. Where is it at there? It is Okay, nope, that ain't it either, over here talking shit One second. I'm looking for this video.
Speaker 5:Guys, once I find it, Well, I'll help fill the time. Every bit of that scene is like a big pie and everybody there has got a little bit of that shit sandwich that you're going to eat. So the first person there, just be one voice as you start to get extra people there. Like Frank was saying that motor guy, just don't say nothing, just provide stable for sure, lethal backup. Let the one voice that should be one voice in it do the one voice thing. At what point? They did have his hands on his head. He was complying with him at one point when he was in front of the car. So like every bit of that scene has got a little bit of something that everybody there is going to have to do. So not everybody needs to be yelling at suspect. Not everybody needs to be to do so not everybody needs to be yelling at suspect. Not everybody needs to be going to everybody. Everybody does their every kind of kind of takes little bits of the role and kind of lets everybody else do their thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So here's the here's the clip that I was talking about, so heavily pushing de-escalation, I think it's. We've pushed it to an unsafe point where it's time to handle business and our officers are not seeing the signs and they're trying to de-escalate and they are causing a hesitation in themselves. When you cause hesitation, you increase injury and the potential for injury. So all of this hesitation that I'm seeing is we end up using a higher use of force than if we would have handled business when we could have up front. So that is one of the biggest things I'm seeing with the social skills stuff is, yes, they're trying to use their words, but really, how does a 21, 25-year-old try to relate to a 40-year problem between a couple? And they have no way to relate? And here they are trying to de-escalate.
Speaker 1:When the guy's got his fist balled up, he's starting to reach towards a pocket or something like that. Yeah, and me, old school, I'd already tackle them. They'd already been on the ground. I just slapped them across the face, done something, and you, sir, sir, sir, you keep getting this sir sandwich stuff, sir, no, and I'm handle it Like now we've gone to a taser or pepper spray or baton when you could have just taken them down to the ground and put a little joint manipulation, put them in cuffs and dust them off. Good to go so little shout out to reasons we serve. But I wasn't talking about that exact scenario that we just watched. But God damn, tell me, it didn't fit. Sure is applicable, jesus. So, yeah, that that's part of my problem. Um, with the de-escalation stuff. I think that was a prime example of too much de-escalation training. Uh, but let's, uh, let's go to the next video here is it dalton roadhouse, was he say?
Speaker 5:is every this, you got to be nice until it's time to not be nice, right?
Speaker 1:no, yeah, how will we know? You won't? I will let you know. I quote that old movie all right, here we go. Both of them were good actually yeah, I liked it. I did like the second one, uh, with jake jelen hall, I think oh uh.
Speaker 2:So this occurred roughly 16 blocks from where I'm sitting right now. No shit, it's right down, literally right down the road okay, um, all right, let's not, not the doctor self are you right? You don't know what direction it's's. In Phoenix, in the middle of Phoenix.
Speaker 1:It's literally right in the middle of Phoenix.
Speaker 2:Okay, it is Phoenix Petey.
Speaker 1:What is your problem?
Speaker 4:You're following me, You're the one that's going out yelling at me doing whatever.
Speaker 1:I wasn't yelling at you. I wasn't yelling at you. There's a speed limit down, Cactus. Do you know what the speed limit?
Speaker 4:is.
Speaker 2:I wasn't going past it when I what the speed limit is you?
Speaker 4:know what the speed limit is 35, 40, it is 40. You were traveling 30. You need to be at 40. That lady right there was just going so slow.
Speaker 1:Hold on. All right, I got a problem with that. It's a speed limit, it's not a speed. That's the speed you have to do.
Speaker 2:Impeding the flow of traffic. It depends yeah, it depends what all the rest of the vehicles are doing and if you're creating a hazard by your speed being so slow, also traveling 10 miles an hour or more under the speed limits, and it's a clue of impairment okay, fair enough.
Speaker 1:Now this cop immediately came up and was bitching at this guy for yelling at him. So it makes me wonder like is an ego? Stop. Was this a pissed off police? Stop. That's the vibes I'm getting, yeah.
Speaker 4:You had to go around her to get to me. Dude, you ain't going to fuck shit. Yeah, and you go around her and then you stop again. What is your problem with it?
Speaker 2:No, I did not stop again. I did not stop again. What do you mean? I did not stop, what do you mean? Yeah?
Speaker 4:you fucking are. Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. Give me your driver's license. Do you have any weapons?
Speaker 2:What did you pull me over for? For driving under the speed limit?
Speaker 1:No, you fucking did yes. I did no, you fucking did yes.
Speaker 4:I did no, you fucking did All right.
Speaker 1:I can tell you right now, the minute this started to get the way it was, I'm walking away. I I'm hoping I this stop in itself is not based on law, although he's got the law to back him up. This is a ego pissed off police issue and it went. I think he expected compliance and he didn't get it and now he's doubling down. I could see that that that's where I'm getting Doubling down. I don't like this. This is an ego. Stop. If I'm your sergeant and I see this, we're going to have a talk on this. Stop, because what are you hoping to get on this? What are you going to get?
Speaker 2:Drive faster.
Speaker 1:Yeah, drive faster, sir. Like hey, dude, I pulled you over because you're driving so slow on a speed limit. You're impeding traffic. I just need to drive faster. Have a nice day, that's it.
Speaker 5:That's it, super easy. Yeah, I'm not going to give him like an olive branch or anything, but if he's in the area, he is observing other vehicles and observing a couple of them that are driving slow.
Speaker 1:Maybe because I'm observing a couple of them that are driving slow. Maybe they've been having break-ins in that area Fair, but you've got to be creeping, not 10, under You're still driving.
Speaker 5:But if you're that obvious that the guy that you stopped thinks that you're following him, there's that issue too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and obviously this guy knew that the cop was following him. Like I said, there was some buildup before this happened. This is why this interaction is happening, and I think that this cop knew that he's like he's going to do one of those. Oh, you're going to fuck around. Well, now you're going to find out. This is a flex of the badge. I don't like this.
Speaker 4:You didn't you didn't pull this guy over for a legit reason.
Speaker 1:You pulled him over to flex the badge. This is bullshit. This is what pisses people off. This is I don't. I don't like this motherfucker. This is illegal? No, it is not. Yes, it is fuck you now. And this is the problem I have. Is it technically?
Speaker 2:probably isn't illegal, it's not. It's not illegal. But just because it's not illegal doesn't mean it's not. You know, going on your side of things doesn't mean it's not right. Obviously, it is really hard to make any discernible decision on this because we're seeing a small snippet. We have no idea what his vehicle movement was on the roadway. We have no idea how long the cop was following him. We have no idea what the cop did, what he did Like. You can't make a decision based on this. This is a law enforcement officer walking up in a traffic stop and this guy being pissed. It automatically paints this guy in a bad, a bad spot, but we have no idea. Like it's videos like this that I hate because you have no idea the context and people make all these these snap and I I haven't. I've known that this video existed. I've never watched it, I just knew that it existed. It's the first time I've ever watched one second of it, but I know it did happen roughly in the vicinity where I live.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to say that I'm old. I am speculating, 100%. I am speculating. I'm just going off of my one my training experience, which is a default, but I'm going off my ability to read people and the answers that this cop is giving tells me that this is an ego. Stop, that's just. I'm just giving you my opinion. It doesn't mean it's right and I can pull that. I can retract that information If I see something from the dash cam footage or something else that comes out later on. But to bridge that gap with the community where they get so tired of seeing cops use their ego on shit, this is one of those examples I'm seeing right now. That is my opinion on this so far. Now, perry Lemley said exactly what I was thinking too. My boy is probably on a little bit of roids.
Speaker 2:Well, there's that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's definitely way more angry than he needs to be on this one, so I'm gonna get your fucking superior here right now.
Speaker 4:For what get your fucking superior here?
Speaker 1:you fucking fuck give me, your, I mean like, that's like, what does it mean?
Speaker 2:they're coming out like the the cops hasn't raised his voice at all. He's just talking to this guy and this guy's like in this crazy rage yeah, um, definitely mad.
Speaker 1:He's almost like a wwf star right now, or w sorry wwe, I'm sure wwe yes, the world wildlife federation yeah, they would not like that. Yeah, so, uh, yeah, but I mean if, if the stop is an ego stop, his anger is justified.
Speaker 2:So yeah, an emotional response like that, yeah, never justified.
Speaker 1:Now, one of the problems, guys, even though I'm so far, I'm on the side that this cop's doing some bullshit. Just because he can doesn't mean he should. That's the way I see this one. Yes, he can technically pull you over. I don't think he should. That's the way I see this one. Yes, he can technically pull you over. I don't think he should have based on what we see in this video. Again, there could have been some other factors that he just didn't articulate. I don't know, but I'm still leaning towards this as an ego thing. He knows it's being recorded and he knows that he's got this guy emotionally compromised. So he gets to play the cool card and look even better.
Speaker 1:So, um, but what he absolutely cannot do the driver he's got a legal justification. You cannot hinder the investigation. He asked for the license. You can say no, I don't want to do that, but I'm going to give it to you because you're telling me to. It's a lawful order, but I'm doing this under protest. Say that, yeah, but and in this officer, he may have a policy requirement to let his supervisor know hey, this guy wants to see you, but there's no law, at least in arizona or in texas, that that supervisor has to make the scene. So there's that.
Speaker 5:He did, he did call for a supervisor in another unit. So I would tell him all right, can I see your driver's license?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have a supervisor. Come on, there's a way to use your words. Exactly Like you said hey man, boss is coming, he's on his way. Obviously, phoenix is a big city so he's coming. Grab your driver's license so I can take care of what I gotta take care of. When you get here, you talk to the boss. By the time that's done, we'll be done. We can all go super easy way.
Speaker 1:Use your words yep, yeah, marine blood. I always drive 50 miles per hour under the speed limit for safety. I try to avoid roads at 25. I like it.
Speaker 2:I like it. I like your numbers.
Speaker 1:That's what? Yeah, yeah, shut up.
Speaker 4:Did you not just sit back there? Did you not just fucking sit back there?
Speaker 5:I don't give a fuck what, ashley, has you doing, fuck?
Speaker 4:your mother, fuck your mother, I like it. Fuck, you Get your motherfucking superior.
Speaker 2:He's on his way. You want him to magically pop up. He is on his way. I like it. Fuck you, fuck you. Get your motherfucking superior. I know the fucking law.
Speaker 4:You want him to magically pop up. He is on his way.
Speaker 2:I call for him. He is on his way. I need your driver's license.
Speaker 4:Fuck you. You have any weapons in the car I'm going to fucking knock you out.
Speaker 1:Ooh, now we're getting.
Speaker 2:That's a little pre-fight indicator there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a perfect indicator.
Speaker 5:I don't like that Because he's about to say I'm going to fucking knock you out. And if we're getting to this point where your finger's almost to the point where it comes into the screen, I'm not liking that either.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Okay. So this is going to go into one, this new Supreme Court ruling that I've been talking about with use of force on police or use of force with police. There was a case where a guy jumps on a fleeing vehicle and ends up firing rounds at another driver, killing him, and they end up calling that the moment of moment of something.
Speaker 2:Oh, you know what I read that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I put a video out about it. I just can't remember the name of that moment of me wasn't the moment of decision. Um moment of shit supreme court ruling on use of force um moment of threat.
Speaker 1:Moment of threat, thank you. So, on the moment of threat, they ruled that that no longer bears. They no longer honor the moment of threat argument and in this one that we're watching right now, if they shit sorry, the other video started playing. So, on the moment of threat, by them taking that away, one of the things that they said is that they're going to look at the totality of everything for when you use force.
Speaker 1:So if we end up having to use force on this guy here, let's say we can count, we can count this yeah, but we can also count the fact that we pulled him over for going under 30 or going 10 miles under the speed limit, and now that's going to be a factor against that cop if he goes to deadly force here.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. But Arizona state law and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration have both said that's a reasonable reason for stop. So you're not against the law and the way that Eric looks at things. Why wouldn't make that stop? The fact of the matter is it's on the law. If the legislature didn't want it to be on the law, they could repeal it. However, if it's on the law, it's the law and this guy's response to being pulled over is absolutely unacceptable.
Speaker 1:Fair, but, like I said, with this ruling, the stop that that officer had made was a legitimate stop, but when the car took off, he jumped on the car and started firing. So let's say, this guy goes no, I'm not giving you my id he grabs, he goes to get in his car and now we get to use the force. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:This supreme court ruling could end up fucking this cop and it all comes down to this guy's failure to obey lawful orders right that's it, it's this, it is everything goes back to I fight it in court.
Speaker 2:Yes, the answer is fight it in court. Fight. Go to the police department when you're calm, not your veins busting out of your shoulder, and say, look, I think this is bullshit. I want you to, yeah, I want to talk to this guy's boss. I want you to pull the body on camera video. I want to pull this guy's stats. I want to see why he's pulling people over. This is bullshit and I want it addressed. I totally I, that's the way. And then go to court and tell the judge hey, this guy's bullshit, this, this and this. Let's look at the body on camera video. That's where you fight it. You don't.
Speaker 2:And if this officer violated this guy's rights, the Phoenix police department is going to pull out their checkbook. They're going to write a check to this guy and say, hey, we're really sorry that our officer violated your rights. We're going to take him off the road. We're going to give him additional training. You know, if this is the third time he's done it, maybe he gets fired. You know, whatever, whatever their continuum is for for discipline, but that's where you fight this. You don't fight it on the side of the road with this cop. It's not the right place. It's not the right time.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So this guy, no matter what, no matter how you you look at it, no matter how you cut this pie, this guy is in the valley of wrong right now. It's not and whether he doesn't, he's not on the right. But no matter what he does, man, settle down, deal with it and then work it up the chain, take it to the police department, take it to the attorney general's office, take it to court, fight it everywhere else. But you're having a one-on-one argument where you're getting yourself all riled up because you have app, you have zero for emotional intelligence and you have no ability to dictate your own emotions. Um, like this doesn't do anything to anyone, but you could really screw this cop if he's doing stuff wrong by bringing it up to superiors and working it that way. This does nothing.
Speaker 1:Totally unconstructive. I don't agree with this, but let's see how it plays out.
Speaker 4:You're a fucking fuck right now, kid, and you know you are.
Speaker 2:How is this illegal?
Speaker 4:Cracking me down, stalking me, you little fucking turd. Stalking me. Oh shit. He's unhappy, he's unhappy identify yourself with a driver's license. My name is fucking Sam, fucking Perrone. What is your birthday? What's your birthday? What is your birthday?
Speaker 2:See Not providing evidence of identity.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to lie. The driver's winning me over.
Speaker 5:He's a good shit talker.
Speaker 1:I like a good shit talker, I like a good shit talker. What's your fuckinger? What's your fucking?
Speaker 3:name? What's your birthday?
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's your birthday? I like this guy.
Speaker 4:Pull me over, Thor. Why did you stop? Why did you stop, you little punk-ass bitch? Why did you stop?
Speaker 2:Park, there Park there?
Speaker 4:Why did you stop there? Why did you fucking stop there? You're fucking scared, you little bitch. Why didn't you stop there? Why didn't you fucking stop there?
Speaker 1:You're fucking scared, you little bitch, I'm scared.
Speaker 2:Shit, I was bigger than this guy. I bet you some of those tats are from prison.
Speaker 1:Fucking brick shithouse over here. That's a stout dude I don't know a whole lot of people that have shoulder veins.
Speaker 2:so I'll tell you right now this guy beat this officer's ass. I don't even know what the officer looks like. I don't either.
Speaker 4:Fuck your mother. Go get your goddamn superior. Fuck your mother, bitch, get out of my face.
Speaker 2:Fuck your mother, bitch, get out of my face.
Speaker 4:Fuck you Shut up there it is. There's my fucking.
Speaker 2:No, fuck you, I ain't handing you shit, fuck you.
Speaker 3:I ain't handing you shit, sir do you have insurance I ain't handing you shit.
Speaker 4:Do you have insurance? Back the fuck up, I'm not backing up. Back the fuck up off me. Do you have insurance? Yeah See, I don't like that.
Speaker 5:Not until you fuck this shit up. He said it. What are we going to do here?
Speaker 2:He's definitely not being safe. This officer is so lucky this guy didn't beat his ass.
Speaker 5:Yeah, he's not being safe this right here. He's closing the. You're going to the ground.
Speaker 1:But again, this is not the behavior of an officer that knows he's in the right. If I know I'm in the right, I'm back to taser. Boom, you're going. I can argue.
Speaker 2:I'm not going hands-on with this fucking. I'd rather just talk to him until two or three other guys get there and then we can work with it.
Speaker 1:I'm not taking it by myself yeah, fair, I'm with you on that, but, like I said, I just like I'm still on that.
Speaker 2:This is an ego stop and now he's just a big back for a Taser.
Speaker 4:You're failing to fucking follow the law. Sir, this is illegal. This is fucking illegal what you're fucking doing. You back the fuck up. You back the fuck up. I ain't backing the fuck up. I ain't backing the fuck up. You just have to fucking grab that shit, motherfucker.
Speaker 5:His vein has a vein.
Speaker 4:I know Little fucking punk, little fucking punk, fuck you.
Speaker 1:Back the fuck you Now we have problems, and that guy I mean.
Speaker 2:he.
Speaker 4:Now you're not going to fucking arrest me, sir, back up. You back, the fuck up you back the fuck up.
Speaker 2:He's such a bitch. What is that, what is this? What are you?
Speaker 1:doing with this? We're in a pushing match. I don't understand.
Speaker 2:Oh, how terrible.
Speaker 5:I don't think someone can be that hard and drive a chrysler 200 though it's not exactly. Yeah, it's not a 300, it's not a srt, it's not even got a hemi in it, it's not even rear wheel drive. Yeah, the windows aren't tinted.
Speaker 4:How hard are you going to be? You should not touch me. You should not fucking touch me. I told you to back up. He's backing up. Dude, please, again, please stop Again. Please stop walking up on me. I'm on my goddamn car.
Speaker 2:I'm on my car, here we go All right, come on, bitch, step it up, we're fighting. Come on, step it up, we're fighting. You're not fighting.
Speaker 1:Okay, did you guys see the video that I just said before this about how deescalating too much can lead into a larger use of force? Now I don't know what's going to happen here, but if he had handled business immediately like he should have, maybe we wouldn't have been here. Come on Winnie, Come on, Winnie Come on Winnie, come on Winnie, come on Winnie, come on Winnie Bro we're in a little boxing match.
Speaker 2:Oh shit he's doing pretty good he is.
Speaker 1:Oh, here we go.
Speaker 2:Oh, here comes John Q Citizen.
Speaker 4:John Q Citizen.
Speaker 1:You shoot him.
Speaker 5:I think so. If you go back, that looked like it ejected his mag. So it looked like they were fighting over the gun and the mag ejects. Look, watch his right arm. He keeps going back for it the officer's arm.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:There's, the mag goes out.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it was Good, and again that guy took the first swing.
Speaker 5:Yep.
Speaker 1:Let's see what happens here let's see, on a traffic stop for a license, escalated verbal, aggressive demeanor posturing towards okay, I don't care about all this.
Speaker 2:It's in the second person uh, doesn't really say.
Speaker 1:I wonder what's something uh man local hospital. Non-life threatening injuries involved officers sustained multiple injuries as a result of the attack he grabbed the officer's holstered weapon, resulting in the officer involved shooting, and witness film the interaction from across the street, which you can see okay. So yeah, he did grab his gun.
Speaker 1:That's what it looked like, um I watched way too much body camera, yeah yeah, it did look like he was trying to go after his gun, but, um, again, this is that de-escalation shit. Had he just created space, got let's say he got his taser out. Maybe that would have solved the problem. Or again, like this was a stupid fucking stop sorry.
Speaker 2:Uh, we make stupid. We make stops for seemingly innocuous violations all the time. Right, we may, I mean it's. I write almost no tickets for mudflaps or tickets for a windshield, for a tent on your window, right, seemingly innocuous stops. However, those stops, it is good police work to do them, to make contact, not write a ticket. Have a great day Away, you go. That's good police work. You'll never convince me that it's not.
Speaker 2:However, as a citizen, you don't get to say I like this law, I don't like this law. That's something for the legislature to do. For you to talk to your local congressman. That is not your decision. To say I don't like that, you pulled me over for this. Well, guess what? Talk to your congressman, have him repeal that portion of Arizona motor vehicle law. That's not your decision, nor is it my decision. So absolutely not Again. Now could this officer and just like I mean, I say it about my own contacts. Not one single contact I think I've ever had has been perfect. I get there's always is better words to use as better facial expressions, better inflection in your voice. Um, you can approach the situation more tactically. There's always something better, and it is absolutely 100% true for 100% of my stops, I don't think a single one is perfect.
Speaker 1:My I guess my big picture view of this. If I really pulled you over for doing 10 under that, I I'm not joking frank on this I would have been like, hey, dude, I just need you to go a little faster because you're slowing up traffic. I don't need to see your license, anything like that. Just do that favor for me. Have a nice night absolutely nothing wrong and I'm walking back to my car yeah, absolutely nothing wrong with that's where I got into.
Speaker 1:This one was a pissing match. It was an ego match at the beginning because it just again and I I'm not monday morning quarterbacking him I'm just telling you, me personally, how I view that um, and it doesn't mean that I'm right yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you're wrong, right um, but this roid rage dude. He doesn't get the opportunity to say. It's not his ability to say.
Speaker 2:I don't think you should have, because his first three words are the most important in that statement yeah, it doesn't matter what it is, it's the law. It is that officer's job to be like hey, I'm sorry Now, that cop was not writing that guy a ticket. He wasn't going to write him a ticket for it. Yeah, stop stopping Someone. Slow is a great investigatory. Stop, nhtsa says it. Arizona law says it. Is the guy high? No, is he drunk? No, is he distracted? No, he's just driving slow. Sir, appreciate you being cautious. You drive a little bit faster with the flow of traffic. I'd appreciate it. You have a great day done. I don't like that. You stopped me for that. That doesn't work.
Speaker 1:To Eye of the Night. He said I don't think a taser would have worked on that meat.
Speaker 2:I don't know. It actually works better.
Speaker 1:It actually works better on the big buff dudes. It travels through water and muscle. Actually, the very obese people are the ones that it doesn't work the best on.
Speaker 2:That guy's bitching back with that shirt that was flush against the skin.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ah, definitely worked out, yeah, but uh, all right, let's, uh, let's go to our, our last video here.
Speaker 2:Oh cause we've been on for two and a half hours.
Speaker 1:I know it's been a good episode though.
Speaker 2:I started this and it was light out here.
Speaker 5:It's dark, I'm going to put a window down, let's see.
Speaker 2:Oh, I saw this.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you've seen this one.
Speaker 2:Just a little bit of it. I only know the first.
Speaker 1:You know what? I've seen clips of it. I think I know this one too. I don't know what happens with it.
Speaker 2:I just know what happens right here.
Speaker 1:I have seen this one Light gray know what happens right here.
Speaker 4:I have seen this one. I've seen this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just down there.
Speaker 4:Perfect, not an admission of guilt, just stating that you show up on or before the court date.
Speaker 2:okay, he sees this guy Like his hands are down. That guy needs to get his ass beat all day long.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he actually stabbed the cop.
Speaker 2:Oh, he stabbed him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in the head.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't know that. Edmund police Edmund.
Speaker 5:This was pretty recent too, wasn't it May?
Speaker 1:1st May, 1st I think he I don't know if he sprays them first and then stabs them or stabs them and then sprays them.
Speaker 5:I think it's spray. Then stab yeah, because he's, he sprays them first.
Speaker 1:Right, right Now hes him and then sprays him. I think it's spray then stab yeah, because he's spray right now he's got the pepper spray face. Yeah, those eyes.
Speaker 4:Yes, I only ask. We need to take the knife away from him, sir. I only ask Drop it, drop it, drop it, sir, drop it, sir, drop it, drop it, sir, sir, drop it. You do me this right dude in the face.
Speaker 1:Sir, sir, drop it, drop it. Sir, sir, drop it, please drop it. It's another benefit of grappling. I can roll you, I can grapple you with my eyes shut. I don't need to see you. I know where your arms are, I know where your, your legs are. That's one of my favorite. I will slow roll with people and keep my eyes shut the entire match. That is how grappling will help you, especially in what we do. Because, frank, every time pepper spray gets used, not by a citizen, but by another officer who gets sprayed.
Speaker 2:Every single person within 20 feet. Yes, I hate pepper spray. I hate it.
Speaker 1:So I can fight through it. Because I can fight with my eyes shut, I can deal with people. This is one of those instances where if you've got some decent grappling skills, it directly applies to your job. You should be doing it. Cops, you should be blue belts in jiu-jitsu.
Speaker 4:Please don't hurt anybody, Please.
Speaker 1:Get off my radio, please don't drop anything.
Speaker 4:Don't drop it, sir. Drop it, sir, drop it.
Speaker 1:I would be dropping ever-loving bombs on this dude.
Speaker 2:I was going to say, man, that's.
Speaker 1:There's no fucking way he would be eating so many elbows that his teeth would have been my elbows. That's what it would have been.
Speaker 5:There's no way If his head hit the back of the floor and early ground that it lost consciousness and then there was no more fight in him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, then you could handcuff him and be done with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would have been laying down the bows. Ludicrous would have been in the background.
Speaker 4:Shoot me man. Oh them bones 22. Yes, you do, buddy. You have everything to live for.
Speaker 1:No, I think this is just Joe Blow's citizen helping out. It is.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:But I ain't doing that. There we go, there, we go, there, we go, there we go.
Speaker 1:Damn, that was a big knife.
Speaker 4:That's like a butcher knife. Yeah, I didn't see that. That was not smart. Alright, and now there's help. I got nothing left. Hurry up, hurry up, hurry up, shoot, yep, yep, yep, got him.
Speaker 5:Come on. Come on, I'm okay with that. You're telling your backup. I got nothing left in me, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that man Because it lets him know don't defend on me.
Speaker 5:Yeah, if you're at this point, he's getting that on for me. I'm a big fan of civilian too, because he steps in and then he kind of steps back a little bit when backup gets there and they kind of it's like hold on arm you.
Speaker 4:Okay, buddy, hold what you got, yeah, what you got. I got him Six, nine, four, three, four units. Tase it, nope, nope, nope, tase him, tase him, tase him, dude, tase the shit out of him. That's a civilian.
Speaker 1:I love it. He's like no, no, no, tase him, tase the shit out of him. I didn't see all this.
Speaker 2:I didn't either. I always saw the first five seconds.
Speaker 1:I saw the part where the cop gets attacked. That's the only part. I saw Ride it, that's a favor.
Speaker 2:Ten that's a new one eh yeah, that's what we have.
Speaker 4:Yeah, get him Okay, okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 2:Get him Okay.
Speaker 4:Get him.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. This is the best thing, most exciting thing that's ever happened in this guy's life. We guarantee it, this guy's going to be talking about this story the rest of his life.
Speaker 4:He's bad. He's bad, get him help.
Speaker 1:He's bad. He's bad. Get him help. He is bad.
Speaker 5:Did you hear what happened to Charlie on his lunch break?
Speaker 1:Right. Nobody would believe him if they didn't see the body cam video.
Speaker 5:Oh, he had outstanding warrants for distributing child stuff.
Speaker 1:Oh, so it was a child predator.
Speaker 5:Oh, that's a good way to turn yourself in. I mean not so good, but that's one way to do it.
Speaker 1:So let me read this out loud provocation hudson unleashed a cloud of pepper spray, followed with a knife attack on the officer, uh, temporarily blinding him. The officer, through the bleeding and struggling, fought back altercation, rage. Passing, good samaritan jumped in, wrestling the knife from hudson, facing outstanding warrants for distributing uh, disturbing child exploitation charges, reportedly told the officer they had nothing left to live for and begged to be shot. Despite the attack, officer hudson hodom called for backup. I want to know what his injury was. Officer Horton was taken to the hospital for surgery, so he must have been stabbed like legit stabbed if he needed surgery, because to me it just looked like he had a cut on his head, but if he's getting surgery, yeah, he was legit stabbed. We'll stop sharing that. Yeah, that was crazy.
Speaker 5:It's a stud for staying in a fight, though. Yeah, yeah and not shooting.
Speaker 2:I mean, he had every justification to shoot on that one probably couldn't, even just I couldn't see that he had a knife yeah, well, I mean just, I I'll shoot you if you pepper spray me I, I agree I think, I think you're 100% at that. I think he's good with holding on to that guy and pumping him full. He is absolutely out of the fight, has no ability to defend himself.
Speaker 1:Yep, I would have for sure. I was thinking that, yeah, but with that that's insane. So that's all the videos I have. I do have one thing that I wanted to uh let people know of, uh, so I want to give you guys a quick update on our partnership with uh DTV, the donut network. So I've told you guys about this. In the background, I've already kind of teased you with one of the show ideas that I want to do with Frank and uh Sheriff lamb. So we've got that in the works.
Speaker 1:But everything is moving full steam ahead, as you guys know. So DTV is going to be a new YouTube network that we're going to have. That's created by cops, first responders. We're going to have felons, people that have served time. We're going to have shows with them, everything that goes with the criminal justice system and what view we can give you from behind the badge, which I think is something you guys have come to appreciate. With what we're doing to all be fair and balanced, we're trying to give you the most fair and balanced look that we can give. The project is still in development. We're working to get that stuff to you guys with the exclusive content ideas that we have, from talk shows to docutainments, to documentaries, reality series. I'll give you a teaser. One of the things that we're trying to work on is we're trying to get with Guy Fieri the cook. He runs a nonprofit and we're trying to have a firefighter cook-off show where we compete to firefighter precincts I don't know what they call it Firehouses.
Speaker 2:Houses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, against each other. But again, for the educational side, it's all going to go to charity Tunnels, to Towers. That's where we're going to put the money towards and with that you guys will learn a little history of the houses, the reasons they do some of the stuff they do. That you guys will learn a little history of the houses, the reasons they do some of the stuff they do, the traditions of their fire department houses. So that's one of the ideas that we're going to bring to you guys. So these are the things that we're working for.
Speaker 1:Guy Fieri has not signed with anything, but we're working to get them. We have some people connected to them. So stay tuned for that type of stuff. Two Cops, one Donut is under that umbrella with DTV and we're going to teach you guys and show you guys how you can become a part of what we're doing. And you know, through the transparency and the educational side of entertainment is what we're trying to bring you all. So I want you guys to look forward to that. I am Everything's still moving forward. We're going to have more stuff coming. You guys know Daniel, we're going to get Daniel out there. One of the things I want him to push is talking about case law and keeping officers and citizens updated on case law and why and what the arguments are for the citizen side, for the police side, all of that stuff, and giving you guys the voice to talk about it.
Speaker 2:And how important that is, because case law governs everything.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, absolutely, and we fully plan to incorporate you, the viewers, into those shows, like we've done already. We've had Mr Billfold on the show, we've had Tim on the show, we've had Kingslayer on the show. I want you guys to always have a voice in those types of shows that we have. So I think that's one of the unique draws that we have is, we're not talking at you, we're talking with you. So I think that that's one of the differences that we do here, and we don't shy away from it just because you're not saying what we like to hear.
Speaker 2:Sometimes there's valid points. I mean sometimes there's valid points. I mean sometimes there's absolutely no validity whatsoever, but sometimes there's really overwhelmingly super valid points and coming up something, coming from a different point of view, to broaden your, you know, broaden your. Your paradigm where you get your information from is awesome, yeah I know, talk faster, it's bedtime it's also bedtime for me.
Speaker 1:Ozark Moon said I love not having a bedtime.
Speaker 2:See, that must be nice One day.
Speaker 1:All right, guys, that's all I got for tonight. We definitely went a little over what our normal time is, but we did miss last week. Thank you guys. Thank you Please. If you don't have the monetary, financial freedom to donate towards the show, know, if you don't have the monetary, uh, financial freedom to donate towards the show. Um, you guys know, I don't push for that shit ever. I wait till the very end, Uh, so if you're with me and you want to support what we're doing, please jump on there. Do the super gifts, do all that stuff. Um, thank you to those that did donate tonight. All that money goes directly back into the show. It doesn't go to my non-existent Lamborghini, Um, so thank you for that, Frank. Let them know where they can find you, sir.
Speaker 2:So, uh, first of all, thank you, Thanks for the invite tonight. Um, I appreciate always being, uh, being being part of the future donut network, um, so, on uh, facebook, I'm Frank slope, uh. On YouTube, I am also Frank slope, uh. And then on Tik TOK and Instagram, I am also Frank Slope, and then on TikTok and Instagram, I am frankslopeofficial and I see a little picture of me. I think I'm wearing this hat. We post stuff, we do some reaction videos very similar to what Eric does, about three times a week, and we go live every once in a while for members and we just kick stuff out. I do a lot of personal stuff on there, so that's it.
Speaker 1:All right, deadleg, kick stuff out. I do a lot of personal stuff on there, so that's it. Yeah, all right, dead leg. You, sir, what do you got going?
Speaker 5:on. How can people find you? Besides all the wonderful work we're doing here and then the stuff that you and I have talked about, that we're working with behind the scenes, we got some things that we're working on. I also do a thing with eric tansy. Every wednesday it's called fox news f-a-w-k-e-s talk about everything in the news. It's pretty much it's a once a week show and then we might have one or two things throughout the week that sprinkle in, but usually there's enough news to cover. And then on Fridays I do case breakdowns with Eric for failure to stop. So every Friday he and I will do a very longer format of just one case We'll go look into, we'll pull in maybe the officer's background, we'll pull the suspect's background try to give that more context other than he was just doing 10 under. Well, maybe he's doing 10 under because they were over there and they were working a traffic stop or they were working at you know an accident, or they were, you know they worked at something over there a couple weeks ago.
Speaker 5:There's there's usually a reason why you make contact with a car, cause I always looked at police work. As you know, I had 10 to 12 hours a day. I might as well make the best of it. So let's make it valuable. So every hour I wanted to have something valuable. I want to have something. So if I was going to do something, there was a reason behind it. So even if I was just getting out to talk to you, it's like, hey, you're flashing these other cars Cause I'm running speed. What's the deal? Even if it's just a stop to talk like that, we'll talk and it'll just go on. It'd be the end of the day.
Speaker 2:Also illegal for Arizona case law.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, that's why you wait.
Speaker 1:Wait for them to go by and then find the registration is expired, then fucking news. Uh, buddy, fucking news.
Speaker 2:I like it, like it we all know a blue falcon oh, geez, hey, guess what frank.
Speaker 1:Apparently you need to be under the jail for no less than 20 years. Oh, I don't know what you did to earn 20 years in jail, but no, under under the jail.
Speaker 2:Under the jail, that means that I gotta be buried. And then you put a jail on top of me.
Speaker 1:She's going to be very heavy that's going to be a lot of taxpayer money just to send a message. Yeah, that you won't even get because you'll be dead yeah, totally, totally useless I guess.
Speaker 1:so, all right, guys, everybody. Uh, thank you for uh joining in and having fun. My mom is chastising steve for saying that it's totally on com 4. Mom put you in the corner. Thanks, mom, damn Everybody. Thanks for joining on tonight. Go check out DTV. We've already got an Instagram up. We don't have a YouTube yet, I don't think, but we have Instagram and LinkedIn. At least Go follow those. We're going to eventually start posting some content on there, can't wait. All right, guys, it's been fun. Everybody boo.
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