Two Cops One Donut
We were asked “what exactly is the point of this show?”Answer: social media is an underutilized tool by police. Not just police, but firefighters, DA’s, nurses, military, ambulance, teachers; front liners. This show is designed to reveal the full potential of true communication through long discussion format. This will give a voice to these professions that often go unheard from those that do it. Furthermore, it’s designed to show authentic and genuine response; rather than the tiresome “look, cops petting puppies” approach. We are avoiding the sound bite narrative so the first responders and those associated can give fully articulated thought. The idea is the viewers both inside and outside these career fields can gain realistic and genuine perspective to make informed opinions on the content. Overall folks, we want to earn your respect, help create the change you want and need together through all channels of the criminal justice system and those that directly impact it. This comes from the heart with nothing but positive intentions. That is what this show is about. Disclaimer: The views shared by this podcast, the hosts, and/or the guests do not in anyway reflect their employer or the policies of their employer. Any views shared or content of this podcast is of their opinion and not intended to malign any religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything. 2 Cops 1 Donut is not responsible and does not verify for accuracy any of the information contained in the podcast series available for listening on this site or for watching shared on this site or others. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. This podcast does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services.
Two Cops One Donut
Old School vs New School w/Ret. Freddy Gilbert
Technology is fundamentally transforming how police work gets done, but some human challenges remain stubbornly consistent across generations. In this candid father-son conversation, current officer Erik Lavigne and his retired cop father Freddy Gilbert bridge the gap between old-school policing and today's tech-driven approach.
The evolution is staggering - from powerful AI systems like Peregrine that automatically connect related cases across jurisdictions to deployable drones that arrive before officers and body cameras with real-time translation capabilities. "It's fucking Jetsons all over again," as one officer puts it. These tools are revolutionizing everything from detective work to traffic stops.
Yet despite these advances, the core tensions of policing persist. How do officers respond when citizens refuse lawful commands? What training can truly prepare someone for life-threatening split-second decisions? And how has accountability evolved from an era where questionable practices might be overlooked to today's environment of constant scrutiny?
The conversation takes unexpected turns, including Freddie's candid admission about witnessing misconduct early in his career and his later transition to defense investigation work ensuring proper due process. Their discussion reveals how policing culture has transformed alongside its technology, with reflections on the exceptional performance of female officers and the need for balanced public expectations.
For anyone interested in law enforcement, criminal justice reform, or the impact of technology on traditional institutions, this episode offers rare intergenerational insights from those who've lived the changes from both sides of the badge.
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Disclaimer Welcome to Two Cops One Donut podcast. The views and opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Two Cops One Donut, its host or affiliates. The podcast is intended for entertainment and informational purposes only. We do not endorse any guests' opinions or actions discussed during the show. Any content provided by guests is of their own volition and listeners are encouraged to form their own opinions. Furthermore, some content is graphic and has harsh language. Viewer discretion advised. And Thank you for listening. All right, welcome back to Cops One Donut. I am your host, eric Levine. With me today, my faja, freddie Gilbert. What are you doing, dad? Just living life. I know Been a while since I had an in-studio. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's way different than the last time you were in studio right getting updated. Yeah, yeah. So the the all the goals have not been met yet, but they're damn close.
Speaker 3:So now we've got considering when you started right. I think you're advancing pretty quick yeah, four years, almost five now.
Speaker 1:So we just, uh, we just did a shoot out in arizona, so we did.
Speaker 3:I told you how we were shooting two pilots, right. Well, I didn't know it was two pilots, I know, I know you tell me you're doing a show of some sort. Yeah, uh, what's the second pilot?
Speaker 1:So the first pilot's the real-time crime center show. So the whole point behind that one is to highlight real-time crime centers show, the technologies they're using, how they use it, why they use it and how it's helping to kind of squash fears of Big Brother overstepping all that stuff. Transparency and accountability it's kind of the theme behind that and it's fun. But it's a community show. That's kind of the idea behind it. The premise is just one big joint community trying to catch bad guys and make things better.
Speaker 3:Do you have demos and examples of how you caught somebody?
Speaker 1:Yes, so we actually went to Scottsdale PD. They gave us permission to film. So we went out there, filmed a little bit of the city, filmed a little bit of, you know, the local area. And then we went into the PD, met the chief, got introduced to the chief assistant chiefs. So we're kind of showing off the city and the police department. Why Scottsdale? Because they were the first police department to give us permission.
Speaker 3:That's one reason Plus they've got one of the. It's a nice area, yeah.
Speaker 1:Plus they've got axons.
Speaker 3:right there They've got one of the first real-time crime centers and they've been kind of, you know, pathfinders as far as the real time.
Speaker 1:So there was no resistance, no, come on. They've had people film there before, apparently, so they just didn't have any issues. I'm going to have a drink, by the way, I don't know if you are.
Speaker 3:Sure, I'll take one.
Speaker 1:Try not to use my grubby fingers on your ice cube. I'm trying not to use my grubby fingers on your ice cube. I actually got this present here from one of my last guests, lenny Nabretzky, former New Jersey State Trooper. Really, yeah, he works for Peregrine. Now One of our sponsors Shout out who does he work for Peregrine? Yeah, so you got out before. Peregrine was a thing. So peregrine is like.
Speaker 1:Think of it as um kind of like a google for police stuff. Um, the best way I can kind of describe it because you've been in the space so you know law enforcement. Think of having your CAD, your RMS like report writing system, evidencecom, with all your videos, and now you've got a program that can take all of those and make them communicate together. So let's say I'm looking for John Smith. It's going to populate everything from those three things and give you those, and then it's going to the advanced analytics in. It is going to say, hey, john Smith's typical MO is this he may also be related to these cases because he was released from prison at this time and this is the area he had been made contact with. It gets crazy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it can make a pathetic detective somewhat effective.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes. And the beauty that I like about it is the kind of the checks and balances thing where let's say, you are a shitty detective and what's the basic rule being a detective like the general order state right, you shall follow all leads. Right, you can't hide from the leads, because it finds them for you. It's fucking crazy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, here's my question. It does a lot of the work for you Cheers, cheers.
Speaker 1:Thank you, lenny, the EH Taylor's smooth.
Speaker 3:But the old timers, who are the supervisors of the detectives, know its capabilities and how it's used. Right, because if you don't know, they can get over.
Speaker 1:Yeah just another thing, so the trick behind it that I'm seeing is, if you get this program, if you get Peregrine and you get them incorporated, there has to be a training program. Yeah, Not just for the people that are going to be using it like detectives. It can really be used. There's so many Okay. So let me back up Another cool feature of it ComStat. Yeah, that usually takes 20 hours to make right. Yeah, With this, once you get the parameters set for what you're looking for, five minutes.
Speaker 1:It almost sounds like an AI for policing. It is, and it's integral. That's what I like about it. It's not searching the way. There's no outside influences that can get to it. It only goes off your information. Okay, so all the information that you have, that's what it's using and it's putting all the pieces together. So your bolos, your reports, your gang net stuff, all this, whatever you want to incorporate into it your, you know, your VCI, violent crime initiative stuff it can take all the data input that you put in and help piece.
Speaker 3:Okay, give me an example. You, you get a case. Okay.
Speaker 1:So the one I like to use, cause this was how I was first introduced to it. I was a property crimes detective. One of the problems that we were having was rooftop AC thefts. They were going in and stealing the copper out of them. What it can do is it can see that you know, eric, you got three reports this weekend of rooftop thefts of ac units. So now it's got its own little mo showing that's pretty, pretty rare anyway. And then it'll say but across town last weekend, you know detective, you know johnny walker over there, he also had three rooftop theft.
Speaker 3:Okay, Does it send you this once you're assigned a case, or do you have to ask?
Speaker 1:it. No, no shit. So you get your case number assigned to you, right? You input that case number into the program and now the program does its thing and pulls up here's your case, here's everything that we think is related, and it'll give it kind of a hierarchy of 99% all the way down to whatever percent you cut it off at. The other cool thing that it'll do is it'll scrub your CAD. So let's say you had that rooftop theft, but 10 minutes prior, half a block down, there was a disturbance call through the backyard. Somebody called Somebody's going through their backyards. There may be ring video cameras, some camera that wasn't in the area that may be a new lead.
Speaker 1:So it puts all that stuff together for you. So traditionally you know that as a cop, as a detective, you're in your cases. You're lucky if somebody in your same side of town and works in the office with you is like, oh hey, man, I got some ac thefts too. You don't know if he has any ac thefts unless you just stand up and in the cubicles like, hey, anybody got ac thefts going on. That's the only communication you're gonna, or a good case assigner sees the trends. Yeah. So if those aren't happening, this program is going to catch what falls through the cracks and then it goes farther than that is, it will reach out again. It's looking at every side of town. So if you know the detective across town, you work east side, he works west side and he's got these same cases, does it?
Speaker 3:have any data sharing with other agencies nearby you can.
Speaker 1:so that's one of the reasons it's so fucking robust is like you can set up mous where you share information. I could literally like, let's say we're having a major event, I can take five cameras let's say city cameras or whatever and say, hey, I need you guys to help me keep eyes on this and I can create a link and send it to any agency. They don't have to have Peregrine and you basically just created a virtual regionalization.
Speaker 3:How long have you had this?
Speaker 1:Let's see, I've been talking about them now for five years, so we're getting them out there slowly but surely.
Speaker 3:So we're getting them out there slowly but surely.
Speaker 1:You know, I can't even imagine its progress when we're going to be in the next, I'd say just two years. In two years it's going to be crazy. You weren't even out there for the drones. Yeah, Now we got drones.
Speaker 3:Here's what I'm thinking. All this progress is being created and AI is coming up and being implemented. Once it gets all that AI inputted, that progress into the AI, it should progress even faster.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's self-learning, all that stuff, and, like I said to me, it's not. I talked like this long enough that they became a sponsor. It wasn't me being sponsored and then talking about it, so I'm not saying you were bragging about it before. Yes, I'm not talking about it because I wanted them to become a sponsor or I was trying to like. Legitimately it's going to change law enforcement you brought up drones.
Speaker 3:How many drones y'all have? So we still, right now, we have the patrol drones, but we are getting drones that will be remotely launched from the real-time crime center yeah, see well, yeah, I would think I was daydreaming about drones the other day as I was driving home that why don't they deploy a drone first and assess the situation?
Speaker 1:so the officer safety is right is there, especially in hot calls yeah, so that's the goal is, once we get our drones set up. We got our dfrFR program approved and for those who was DFR drone, first responder. So essentially you've got to get all your operators have to be one oh seven certified to fly the drone. You have to get um, an FAA waiver to fly in areas that typically you wouldn't be allowed to fly.
Speaker 3:See, that's where we need someone like Trump to wave that red tape. See, that's where we need someone like Trump to wave that red tape.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we got all of that stuff and now we're just waiting for the drones to be installed. So we're getting them strategically placed on top of city buildings throughout the city where the most stuff happens, and it's going to be the most benefit. I can see that growing quickly oh yeah, and we're not the first, so there's other cities that have a working model.
Speaker 3:Right, it's just. But drones now are dirt cheap, depending on what you want them to do, right, well the police ones are not dirt cheap.
Speaker 1:What can they do? Because they're the size of this table almost. Oh, they're big. This isn't your little pocket throw-up drone.
Speaker 3:No, I was thinking like the Walmart, amazon. Nah, bigger Really, yeah, they're like. I heard one the other day yeah, they're big, they keep buzzing around. I'm like what the hell is that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, if they fall out of the sky they're gonna hurt somebody, possibly kill them. They're big, so you have to be. What do you think they run? Oh geez. Um, well, it depends. Again, I would say they probably start around 15 to 20, but, like the ones we're getting, they land in their own pod and they change their own battery, so you don't need a person to physically go up there and change the battery. Amazing, yeah, and they're just getting better. Now they're coming up with a fixed wing one. They can stay up in the air for like two hours, three hours, yeah. So they just keep getting better and better.
Speaker 3:You know, those meth heads and catalytic converter thieves are going to have to start sharpening their skills.
Speaker 1:And the beauty of it that I try to put citizens at ease with is like we're not just flying them, we can't One. They don't have the battery life, the 20 minutes it's about as much as they're staying up in the air. So you know you've got to have your travel time to get where you're going and you got to have your travel time back. So you're getting about 20 minutes of real use and most scenes don't last. That's about as long as they last anyway.
Speaker 3:Well, if they're anything like the cameras you got everywhere, right, they're like on every corner, yeah right. So what we're doing now, you should perch them on top of a telephone pole, or switch, just launch them from there. Yeah, they go four blocks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you got to really protect them. They're too expensive valuable.
Speaker 3:I can see the usual suspect sniping them.
Speaker 1:I mean it'll be fun. It'll be fun to watch. I can't wait to see what crap happens with them where we're at. But, like I was saying, the idea is you go out to priority one calls, try to help where you can. Like you said, try to get to the scene first and just start assessing the situation. Help them, keep eyes on things.
Speaker 3:It kind of reminds me of that pipe dream I had back in the day. You know how you have a canine, an officer that has a falcon, fly over and do a certain stunt, or circle or something.
Speaker 1:And distract him or attack him.
Speaker 3:Circle. He's down there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, if you can train them well enough, you could put a GoPro on one of them. Could you imagine that?
Speaker 3:I used to think of all kinds of shit.
Speaker 1:Put a GoPro on a falcon A peregrine falcon and it circles back around Fucking owl. Stealth yeah, no sound. Yeah, peregrine falcon. And it circles back around and fucking owl yeah, no sound. Yeah, it's a stealth bomber just just picking people off.
Speaker 3:I can see the crooks and looking up in the air. Yeah, or a falcon it's quiet, dead quiet.
Speaker 1:All of a sudden you just hear they're like oh no no, no, I'll, let me call.
Speaker 3:You know when canine gets out to come on out, send canine in. And everybody wants canine to be let loose. Yeah, next year. Oh, get him off me, get off me right, just making sure you're in camera.
Speaker 1:I get nervous now. We had we the last one we filmed the zoom messed up somehow, like when I was looking at it, everything was good and then when I came and sat down, either like when I let go, it must have moved or something. But I'm banning it was was zoomed in too close.
Speaker 3:You have little displays on the camera itself. Yes, can you hook it up to a monitor so you can see it bigger?
Speaker 1:You can. I just don't have the money for it right now. I ordered. So what I ordered? There's this thing called an Atomos or Atomos, something like that, and what it'll do is it allows you to hook. It's a bigger monitor, so it's like a five-inch monitor, so it'll be above the camera, so it'll actually be something we can see from where we're sitting.
Speaker 3:You hook it up to a TV or something.
Speaker 1:Well, you can hook them up to a monitor wirelessly, okay, so what I could do is have what they call a confidence monitor so we could see and make sure that everything is staying. But I only ordered one. I need two more because they're $1,000 a piece For a monitor. Well, it's more than that.
Speaker 1:What else do they do? So it can record directly. Oh, so what we're recording right now to like a thumb drive or not a thumb drive but a SD drive. It can record directly to that, upload wirelessly to the web. So if you've got like a cloud, you can store it on a cloud, so you've got a backup right away, so just in case. So it's a redundancy thing it can send the picture wirelessly. So that's another feature that it can do. It has a ton of features that I probably won't take advantage of. Yeah, but for what I'm doing it, they're badass, nice, like I said, they're. They're pricey, that thing that I got right there. I've got a setup that's a roadcaster video, so what that will be able to do when I get it set up, it's got the little antenna sticking out of the back that will allow me to switch the cameras, oh so like joe rogan, yeah, so like when you're talking, I can just hit you know camera two, so it's just on you.
Speaker 3:So yeah, that. That's where, when you watch a professional podcast and you see it go back and forth, there's someone behind the scenes.
Speaker 1:Maybe they could do what I do. I do it the manual way so I take that recording, that recording, that recording, and then I cut it. I have to manually go through, and that's what takes forever. Um, but now they've got software, ai software, where I can say this voice belongs to this camera, and this voice belongs to this camera, so it will go through and it'll automatically.
Speaker 3:So when it hears that voice, that camera will kick on.
Speaker 1:Right. Or if we kind of talk over each other, we're going back and forth, then it goes to the wide. So, yeah, that's pretty quick. I know your boy learns, I'd be learning, right. So, um, yeah, it's. It's crazy, we're. When we went out and we oh, I forgot we were talking about the whole. That's how we got on peregrine. We were talking about the filming of the pilot, I was telling you about the real-time crime center one, but we didn't even get to the other one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what's the other?
Speaker 1:one you don't know about. So I do these conferences with the National Real-Time Crime Center Association every year I'm a board member for them where we talk about the latest and greatest tech, right. So I'm going to write this time down. It's a good clip. But with the conferences I have these connections with all these companies and stuff that I know they're putting out good tech every year, but they have to wait until they go to these conferences to show them off. Okay, or they can put out their own propaganda, whatever you want to call it, and it doesn't come across the same way when you're bragging about your own stuff. You know what I mean. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So what I wanted to do was get some cops together and create a tech show that shows off the latest and greatest tech in first responder world. So not just cop stuff, but cop stuff's easy for me right now.
Speaker 3:So what is some of the latest greatest?
Speaker 1:So, like we went to Axon to film the pilot and they have a body cam that does auto live translation. So if you speak Spanish, yeah. So it's got two modes. It's got auto detect, so if you're talking to somebody and you don't know what language they speak, you can try that mode. Or if you know they speak Spanish, then you say you know, translate Spanish to English, and then it'll do it, so you can sit there and have a conversation Fucking Jetsons all over again.
Speaker 1:I know right. So that is, and there's more things that it's going to be able to do. They just didn't release everything to us yet to be able to do. They just didn't release everything to us yet. But it's just AI driven and just a bit it's going to change the way that they help. Okay, you know, with all this advancement, in AI what I mean it's going to.
Speaker 3:It's going to change the perception of school. Yeah. I mean, do you really need this certain type of degree, right, if you can just look the shit up?
Speaker 1:Right. Well, that's what Caitlin's. You know my oldest, she's 16, so she's right in the heart of it right now and you know she's super genius anyway. So she's telling me that the teachers are like making you do work in front of them and if you're not doing it, you know and you can't figure out how to do certain things. Like their grades are dipping and one of the ways that they watch is like if you're scoring really high on all your basic work, but then when you're tested and proctored and you're bombing, like there's a telltale sign that you're getting dependent on ai stuff so that's.
Speaker 1:That's the whole. No cell phones and all that crap that they pulled this year. So that's the battle the teachers are having.
Speaker 3:I believe it, because I'm just learning about what that stuff can do. I'm probably five years behind.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:Just the knowledge of what it can do, not how it's done. But them kids they're usually updated and experienced with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's all they know some of them. There's some kids now that have grown up with it. What is AI now? Six, seven years old? Yeah, eight years old, maybe that they've had the ability as soon as they were able to start using electronics. They already know it exists.
Speaker 3:My grandkid, the three-year-old safina. She knows how to operate the ipads and stuff yeah like I'll watch her. I'm like, how do you know that it is they grew up with? Grow up with it, yeah you do.
Speaker 1:You tend to figure. You know it was like me growing up with computers. I started learning computers really young, yeah, um, and you know, we got our first home computer and I would start pulling parts out of it when no one's home, just to see like you'd take something out, hit the power button oh it still works, and put it back and then try a different piece and it wouldn't work. I'm like, all right, this is important, mark, just yeah. So that's how I slowly started learning and eventually I got to the point where I could build them, so built my first paid for and built my first computer.
Speaker 1:When I was in ninth grade, yeah, you got me the the CD ROM burner so I could burn CDs. That made me so much money. I made so much money in high school because I had so much music and at the time the only way you could you were burning CDs was if you were copying a CD. There was no such thing as a mixed CD at the time. So I was in the heyday of making mixed CDs and people would pay me whatever I wanted. I mean, literally, they'd be like I want. I would have them make a list and be like all right, I have a pre-made. Here's my pre-made. But if you want something special, it's going to be an extra $10. So I'm getting a $ dollar cd for like 30.
Speaker 1:Some people would give me 40 if I like, made you know like a whole new list of music that maybe I didn't have, yeah, um, so what I learned to do was what they didn't know. It was what they didn't know. This is where I really got to take the advantage. As a young little hustler, I'd show them the list of music that I already had, but I really had a gigantic list. I'm like this is what I got. But if I got to get this stuff, it's going to take me a day to download. It's just cleaning house, and so I wanted I think you got me for Christmas. You got me the burner Sounds like Ferris Bueller, yeah. And then for my birthday, I convinced mom to get me another one. But I built it. I put it all in there, figured it all out, just fucking crushing it making money left and right.
Speaker 3:It's like a dope dealer. Why don't you?
Speaker 1:earn money the real way, right out there just ripping music. Statute of limitations, guys.
Speaker 3:That was a, that was a minor it's only illegal, as if you get caught it wasn't illegal, then you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like they hadn't made the law. It was so new, they hadn't made the laws yet or anything. It was crazy like napster. That wasn't a thing I recall it was years ago.
Speaker 3:You would get a message, an email or something? A cease and desist letter? Yeah, yeah, because you copied something or I don't know how they figured it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did that. I got a couple of those mostly from Microsoft because I was trying to get, like you know, windows 98 had come out, so I was trying to get Windows 98.
Speaker 3:I do recall people would share the systems, like the updated versions, somehow, some way, but it was illegal. Illegal, it's supposed to buy your own right, but everybody shared it. Yeah, did they come up with a way of figuring that out?
Speaker 1:oh yeah yeah, now it's. It's so controlled, like I don't know how you could, because you, I think, most of the time you, I don't even think you can do it off of a disc anymore. I think you have to do it through, like their website, through the internet. They'll send you a password, right?
Speaker 3:So there's no way around it, yeah, so how did it go over the Disco Steel?
Speaker 1:So we did the. It's funny because we had five days, because we had limited money. You know we got donations, or sponsors, I should say, from several companies, including Axon, axon, peregrine and Code 3, or the three contributors to get the project off the ground.
Speaker 3:So just curiosity, what do you need to do all that? I mean, I know you need equipment and stuff, but what are some of the things that you didn't realize you needed until you got there?
Speaker 1:so it wasn't that I didn't. I didn't realize a lot of it. It was the Chris and Paulina who do this for a living that we're like this is who we're getting, this is what we need to get. So one of them I can't remember what the position is, but their whole job is to keep everything on schedule, so they are constantly like hey lunch is.
Speaker 1:It's not a producer. Their job is ordering lunch. If something needs to be purchased at the store last second, like you know, we're sitting on set and they're like, we need, you know, a pair of black shoes. We that this didn't happen, but that's the example and that that person's job is to get those black shoes to. That's a hey boy. Yeah, it is, but it's important. Like you need it's in, it's. I don't even. I think it's one of the higher paying positions because they keep everything in line. You know, you've got if, like, if I'm not being filmed, they're filming something else we tend to wander like, so their job is to keep track of you, figure out where you're at, because if you got a multitask, for sure, yes so it's a it's.
Speaker 1:I couldn't do it because I can't keep track of that much crap. So you got that. Um, then I learned that the showrunner, aka the director, they're the ones that tell you what the storyline is going to be, how it's going to go, all of this stuff for each scene, for the whole project, really, but for for each scene. But then you got another position called the dp, and that is uh, I can't remember what dp stands for, but they're the camera dude like. They're the ones that tell you how the shot needs to go. They're the one taught me this light trick. So this is like the first time I've ever used it, because I learned it from him but they tell you how everything needs to go for the cameras. Well, sometimes the showrunner and what the camera person, the DP, needs, conflict, and it's like who wins? I mean, ultimately the showrunner wins, but you have to listen to the DP, otherwise you're not going to get a good shot necessarily. So I learned that Then there's the showrunner's assistant, who is the person they bounce everything off of, but typically is the one running everything.
Speaker 1:So we had the showrunner, paulina, and then her friend Raj, who was I don't even know what to call what he did. Like I said, he's the assistant Sidekick. Yeah, like her sidekick, like Robin, yeah, exactly, tonto. So you're in there and Raj is like all right, I need you to do this, we got to go do that.
Speaker 1:We got to do this. And then you'll see him run back to paulina real quick because paulina's off doing other stuff for the next scenes and whatnot. So he's the one directing, really. But that's not the but he's. He's like the this is, he's like the voice for, for the odds, for the great and powerful odds, so don't pay attention. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, that's, that's what Raj was doing and he was great. And then let me see what other you know. Um, you got the lights person. Uh, you got the sound person. That's another important person. Um, shout out to retro rifle. We wore retro rifles the whole time, which I see you wearing your retro rifle shirt, a Magnum shirt. I like it. And I wore my Magnum shirt for one of the shows, and those are really loud when you're mic'd up right here. Oh, because it's polyester or whatever.
Speaker 1:And the mics are so sensitive, if you don't wear an undershirt, the material rubbing against your chest hair you can hear it. I know Gross. He's like here's what I'm hearing and I hear it. I'm like is that my hairs? And he's like yeah, I was like what the fuck? I'm too manly, I have to wear a T-shirt.
Speaker 3:I can't.
Speaker 1:No, I can't, no, I can't do you can't free ball it under your shirt.
Speaker 3:No, it's one, you get sweaty, or two, it catches and uncomfortable you just got to get used to it, baby.
Speaker 1:You just got to be free. You can't hold me down.
Speaker 3:I sweat too much it depends.
Speaker 1:It depends on what I'm doing. If I know that I'm not going to have anything to keep me fresh, because you will, I what I'm doing. If I know that I'm not gonna have anything to keep me fresh because you will, I will sweat a lot. But if, if I have, like you know, some spray keep keep fresh.
Speaker 3:I'm good, I'll be good, but you sweat more than me, yeah, yeah, it's that year-round first, first sweater.
Speaker 1:Okay, so it was a good time it's like boot camp it sucks while you're there, but when it's done you're like that was fucking awesome.
Speaker 3:You get to see the product.
Speaker 1:No, not yet. We still haven't seen the first cut. The first cut comes in the next few days actually.
Speaker 3:And it's because they're working on editing and all this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're doing all the edits and then the edits are controlled by the showrunner. So, and then the edits are controlled by the showrunner, so she's giving them like here's what I want to see, waiting for them to send it to see if they hit what she was looking for, and then if they haven't. I think it's like three phases. So phase one is you go through your rough cut of like here's my ideas, what I want to see put it together. So your editors are trying to envision it and they're going through, but they're also using their own experience to make it look good.
Speaker 3:So years ago, when COPS was popular, we were one of the first cities they came to and they'd write in it would be a cameraman and a sound guy Cameraman in the front seat passenger seat and the sound guy in the back seat Right and the cameraman had to get used to unlocking that back door. Otherwise the sound guy's just trapped, yeah, so something would have happened, and either they missed it or they heard about it and like, well, that would be good footage, let's recreate it on scene.
Speaker 3:Okay, one example is the officer had to kick open the door, but the cameraman missed it, so they recreated it.
Speaker 1:They shut the door again After the scene was secure. Oh yeah, yeah, okay, that would be so funny. No, no, no, no, come back out. I got to save her. No, no, no, come back out. Keep that door again. What the fuck? Oh yeah, that would be funny.
Speaker 3:We were searching a building when I was a rookie canine missed this AP. He was hiding underneath the sink and the dog missed it. The dog was new and so after we found him and the dog didn't, he was cuffed. He said, hey, can you put him back underneath the sink for training? We crammed him back underneath the sink and let the dog find him cuffed. Oh my.
Speaker 1:God, you can't do that now, sir. Times have changed.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, I don't know why you couldn't. I mean, it's not like we abuse him in any way.
Speaker 1:I mean, what if he said I don't want to go back under there? Well, he's going to go.
Speaker 3:He didn't have a choice. See, that's the problem. We could say that's the problem. Look, if you cooperate, put a good word in for you.
Speaker 1:You're right, but you can't do that now. Can't do that anymore either. Can't promise him things. You're not promising him anything. You're off topic here.
Speaker 3:Okay, I had a friend of mine call me and say, hey, we're having a memorial for sergeant we used to work with and a sergeant that was recently killed, about a year ago. Okay, on the freeway, yeah, they both worked the east side and so this guy got 50 of us, so this guy got 50 of us together. He showed up at this Railhead barbecue.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, took it over. That's not a bad joint I saw people I haven't seen in 30 years.
Speaker 3:Really yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm surprised you went. I typically don't. I know you don't, that's what I'm saying, but you're like the anti-cop after cop life.
Speaker 3:You know all these well. I knew it was a controlled crowd and most of these people I wanted to see. But all these other functions I don't want to be around a bunch of old retired cops talking war stories, right and bullshit. Not that I didn't like some of those people.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:But there was enough that I didn't like that I didn't want to run across, wasn't worth it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:To me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get it. I mean I don't. It's funny because my whole podcast life is police stuff. But my friends that are a part of that and everybody that I talk to we don't talk about cop stuff like ever. It's just essentially my hobby became my job. This is another job that I have essentially my hobby became my job.
Speaker 3:This is another job that I have. I've never been that type of cop that always had to talk about the job. Right Live the job. Yeah, you know, even off duty. Yeah, I just it's what you do, it's not who you are. Yeah, yeah, and some people that's all their do. It's not who you are, yeah, yeah, and some people that's all their life.
Speaker 1:I know, I know they drive me up the wall. I'm like you're the first cop. Those are the cops that are susceptible to the ego issues. Yeah, yeah, as soon as and I talk about this a lot lately is what I notice in all the videos that go wrong, where the cop, you know, in my opinion, fucks up, is they give an order and give a command, or they have this expectation that should be met and is always met, anytime. They ever tell somebody I need you to do this or I need this or give me that, whatever it is, those expectations have always been met. They've always happened. When they ask In the moment, it doesn't. They aren't prepared for the resistance, they're not prepared for that unmet expectation and if it hits them the right way, the ego takes over. They go from thinking logically to now thinking with emotion and then they get fucked.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, you're right, and a prime example is I'm resisting by just not complying. I'm not touching you, I'm not striking you, yeah, I'm just ignoring your commands and that gets them really pissed yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think back in the day, back in your time, prior to that, we didn't have the knowledge of what we have now. We're just like oh, he didn't listen. Get the fuck down. Well, the old what's that verbiage?
Speaker 3:Ask, command, ask, tell, make, tell, make.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:ATM, yeah, and people still follow that, which in most cases is okay. But like there's a video and you know, these videos go on and on all over the social media. This lady was pissed about something with her ex-husband child custody or exchange and the guy kept. The officer kept asking get out of the car and she goes. No, is that?
Speaker 1:the one I'm a teacher.
Speaker 3:I don't know if she said I'm a teacher.
Speaker 1:Oh, but they tased her. Oh did, they broke the window and tased her.
Speaker 3:She did something and she lunged forward with the car and I half expected shots fired because you know some officers get pinned up and wrapped up, yeah and and they didn't shoot at or anything like that. They just he said, fuck it, and got his. I don't know what it is a tomahawk thing, broke window, took him two strikes yeah but, you know, he's. I don't get these people that have the window rolled up and yeah, like it's becoming a big trend.
Speaker 1:I I'm actually trying to put like a compilation together where it's you know they come up there and the the immediate, like you said, verbal resistance. Nope, nope, nope, not doing this, frustrated, yeah, so that's kind of the point that I made in one of the last videos that I put out was I'm to the point where I don't have an answer to give you. What do you want the fix to be? Because it's either I just let you go, which seems to be the only other option, which we can't do that it's going to create this cascading effect of everybody will do it.
Speaker 1:And then it'll just turn into like it's a slippery slope type thing where now they're going to be doing that for other crimes other than just traffic. So you can't do that and I think most reasonable people agree. You can't just let people go. But if it's an offense like speeding and I don't have them id'd and they're refusing to id, and people are like well, you can just check the registration, well, that's great if that's the person who owns the car. But what if it's not? Like now you don't have that person id'd and now you gotta figure out who they are. So you can't. That that's not a it's not a workable solution. So I don't know what else you can do other than ask them a bunch of times, make it very clearly known that we're going to rip you out of the car if you don't, and the decision becomes theirs.
Speaker 3:It's not the cop's decision, but everybody puts it on the cop well a lot of times it's you really don't know what you have, because it could be a very oh just innocent stupid person not trusting you, or it could be a criminal with a weapon or something. Yeah, so you never know what's in the car. So it takes the proper decision to make, but you don't know what's present.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I don't know, it's frustrating, it is, and that's my problem is, I'm like you're mad at the cops for asking this person, for ripping this person out of the car, but you're not acknowledging the fact that they asked 19 times. They brought a supervisor out there, they did all of these things that they should not have to do and then they ripped them out of the car.
Speaker 3:I think if you make a standard policy, rule law, if you're in that situation and you're trying to avoid contact with the police, if it has to escalate to where they have to get extract, you then make it a felony. Yeah, I don't know, I get a felony just because you ran a stop sign.
Speaker 1:Right, but then again that's going to be. That's part of the argument that the public's bitching about is like you just tased and broke this woman's car window, open for speeding, and I'm like you're hyper-focused on the reason for the stop. You're completely glossing over the fact that she's not giving her name, she's refusing to get out All these things she's required to do by law.
Speaker 3:She could be guilty of just running that stop sign Right. A traffic offense, not have any warrants, nothing. She's a clean person, no warrants, no history. Just decided she didn't want to get out. But the officer doesn't know any of this Prior. Yeah, because he won't identify herself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's to me. And when I made the video, I was genuinely frustrated because I had just watched it and I'm like I don't have a fucking answer, like I don't know what more you want. So that's kind of I was like I left it to the crowd. I was like you tell me what's the answer. If this isn't it, what's the answer? And, as expected, there really wasn't any clear answer.
Speaker 3:This isn't quite the same, but I recall stopping a car years ago and the lady didn't speak English and didn't know anything. Right, I couldn't communicate.
Speaker 1:Could have used the Axon body camera live translation. Yeah, this was back in the 90s.
Speaker 3:So I got so frustrated I said, okay, just carry on, go on your way. Of course it was a minor traffic stop, but it's very frustrating. You can't communicate. Yeah, very frustrating. I mean in that, and that's just. She wasn't. It wasn't that she wasn't willing, she just couldn't. Yeah, not like this other lady on the video where she's like no, I'm not opening the door and talking to you. You're scary.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had the one guy's video that I talked about. He's like you're scaring me right now. I want your supervisor and he's like no, he's like you have to get me your supervisor. He's like I already talked to him, he ain't coming. What do you mean?
Speaker 3:he ain't coming, I'm not getting you, he said you're not worth the travel time yeah right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh my God, the latest stupid video that I put out is this guy's conspiracy. You know legal conspiracy theory guy, and he's talking about that. When an officer signs a ticket, now it becomes this contractual obligation to da-da-da-da and like it's a financial you know link between them and the state and you don't have to pay the ticket. If you just follow these steps and I'm like, oh my God, like listen, and if you're listening to this podcast, all a traffic ticket signature by a cop is is that he was the witnessing person on behalf of the state and everything that he wrote up he is swearing is true. And then when you sign, you are signing that you know that it's your obligation. You're promising to appear in court. It's not an admission of guilt, it's not now that you and the cop are, you know, binded by one ring. None of that. There's no financial obligation to the officer, no financial obligation to you, the person that's getting the ticket, until after court. The court will decide if you have to pay money. I used to trick them.
Speaker 3:Hey, you sign here. No, I'm not going to sign. Okay, I'll just put refuse and it automatically goes to a warrant. And next time you're stopped they're going to take you to jail.
Speaker 1:Okay, you can't do that done. Oh shit, that's hilarious. Um, yeah, they and I I'll tell people all that because that that's the other option. I tell officers I'm like can you take them to jail if they refuse to sign? Sure you can, why? Why? I just say refused and then when it gets to court and like city refused to sign like we would say that for people who pissed us off.
Speaker 3:You know like, all right, I'll just take it downtown and get you id I mean, you have that, I don't know if they still do that cash bonding, but not not so much cash. Well, maybe it is, but they wouldn't identify themselves. So you take them to id when they're legally required to, and yeah and they would be detained, brought to the damn id bureau, yeah, fingerprint, fingerprinted, yeah, and then identified yep and lo and behold warrants, I don't know how long it takes Well back then Hours, I don't know.
Speaker 3:They didn't have a computer doing that shit, what yeah? They would have to.
Speaker 1:That would be crazy. Yeah, I know because I've had to do that a few times. Where I'm like, dude, it's a traffic stop, there's only a couple times you have to ID. Traffic stops are one of those. So if you don't ID now, we're going to arrest you and then you're going to get ID'd down there because we're going to cash-brown you on your ticket, which we don't want to do. If you have a warrant and it's a bullshit warrant, you're fine, but if it's a felony warrant, you're fucked and you just be truthful with them. And every time most of the time, for me, they'd be like all right, I got like you know, failure to appear or something like that we would get in situations where they don't want to cooperate and you can't figure out who they are.
Speaker 3:You don't have nothing on them. So we had a fix for that, oh God.
Speaker 1:Already sounds illegal. What?
Speaker 3:You're a danger to yourself and others. You're drunk. You PI them. And then we PI them and take them to this well, it was called the drunk tank back in the day and you just take them to. It's a pseudo cell, yeah, at the shelter, full of nasty people and there would be county work in there and you just fill out a one-page. You know you did this, this, this, turn it in and they would make them sit in this place for four hours and then cut them loose Like a literal drunk tank just to sober up, oh Jesus.
Speaker 3:That was justice, oh.
Speaker 1:Jesus, that was justice. Oh, we were such different cops. The culture was so different. It is. I mean, that's the truth. The culture was different.
Speaker 3:Yeah, when I was telling you about that reunion, we had at the Girlhead a rookie at the time. He's fixing to retire. Now he goes. I remember we got in a car, we rode two man and you approached us. We drove up on this store and you told hey, you come here, give me your ID. I don't have it. What's your name? I fill it out. Then, all right, take off. And uh, you didn't give him a ticket and I said he didn't know. I wrote him a ticket but you turned it in. I'm like, yeah, I did, because he's he's always trespassing, so it's going to go to warrant and he'll get his eventually oh, my, my God, and he said what we could do, that I said no, but I did, oh, geez oh.
Speaker 3:Pete's.
Speaker 1:What oh?
Speaker 3:my God.
Speaker 1:What's wrong with you?
Speaker 3:Nothing.
Speaker 1:Justice. That's unconstitutional. You're not.
Speaker 3:Batman Cleaned up that parking lot for a day.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, you can't do that shit, fred. Okay, I know there's nothing going to be done now, but that's what I'm saying. It's like that's the funny part about. Well, it's not funny, it's just that's how much times have changed what the public didn't see and didn't know, they didn't give a shit about back in the day.
Speaker 3:We still talk about this. There was a so-called understanding with cops and criminals about if you run and you get caught, you knew what was coming. There's an ass whooping attached to it and they knew that and as long as it wasn't severe they didn't bitch about it. They just price it doing business. But now they know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you can't touch them no yeah, they, they'll run and they'll, they'll stop and prone out and they're like it's a giggle, because you know you want to whoop their ass but you can't yeah, yeah, they the the, the culture.
Speaker 1:Like I said, it's like for me like none of that shit's ever flown, like it's never been a time, when I was a cop, that that was allowed or that was even like there were. There were no like stragglers that were about to retire that we see out there doing that stuff. So it's just you know, and for those wondering, if you haven't listened to any of the podcasts that my dad's been on, as he was, you know, 80s to 90s was when he was on the streets.
Speaker 3:I was a rookie one day and we had this crack dealer proned out and a lieutenant drove by and said what's going on here? Oh, he's dealing. And he heard that he spit on us, right. You know what he did? Kicked him right in the fucking teeth while he's on the ground. Who did this? A lieutenant, Holy shit, Old school lieutenant, right, yeah, Kicked him in the teeth. Probably a cop in the late 60s and 70s.
Speaker 3:And he goes, you and anybody out here you tell them, no one spits on my officers, leaves takes off. And you know, that was a culture shock to me, because I'm like I knew it wasn't right obviously, because I'm like I knew it wasn't right obviously, but yet I could tell it's what they did back in the day, right, and we didn't do it in the 80s 88, but that's when he said it. So I'm thinking this guy was a cop in the 70s and they didn't fuck around back then, god damn, and I had that.
Speaker 3:my eyes are like the fuck, yeah. So I'm not saying that incident created a monster, but I can see someone who could be easily swayed because of what their supervisor did.
Speaker 1:So question you knew it wasn't right, right what he did, but you wasn't right what he did, but you didn't turn him in.
Speaker 3:No, fuck, no, we didn't do that back in the day. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Nobody did. That's what I'm saying. That's part of the disconnect between the public and the police. That's where a lot of the kickback comes from, and today you're seeing very small remnants. I don't think you're seeing a whole lot of it, it's just when it makes the Internet. You see it everywhere. But you're seeing remnants of people that still think that they can do that shit because they come from these little podunk departments, that they've never been checked, they've never had the training or if they did, they just didn't give a shit. So for you, I'm like like why didn't you say something like you knew it was wrong?
Speaker 3:what is okay. Think about it. The only thing I could have done was tell another supervisor somewhere else, a different time or a different place, and it's going to get out okay. Yeah, and that lieutenant's going to put two and two together. There's only three of us out there, yeah.
Speaker 3:One of the three. So he's either going to hate all of us or figure out it was. I don't think we're all rookies, but I was at least two rookies there, yeah, yeah. So when people say, well, that's an easy decision, just report it. It's not an easy decision, yeah, not at a rookie level, especially not back then.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, back then is like, even if I reported back then, I'm not saying this could have happened or would have happened, but I could report it and depending on who I reported to, they could have just not report, not send it up to chain, not done anything about it. Or give me the speech or do the right thing and carry it up to chain and, you know, make something out of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but yeah, yeah, yeah, make something out of it. Yeah, but yeah. Yeah, and I you know it's going to be easy for people that are listening to this today and they're like, well, you should have fucking done the right thing. You swore an oath, that's what you swore to do, da-da-da-da-da. But the culture was different then. So holding the same standards today seems super easy to do for people back then.
Speaker 3:It's not okay. Here's it here. This may be a fucked up analogy, but all right, I'm excited about this one.
Speaker 1:Hold on, let me write this time down.
Speaker 3:This might be a clip okay, go ahead back in the day if you owned a slave, oh jesus right, okay they treated slaves like crap. Right, but that was the culture back then. Okay, it's what was acceptable back in the day, isn't acceptable now, okay, so I'm just saying you had me sweating for a second.
Speaker 1:I see where you're going you're cleaning it up, okay, you don't want to.
Speaker 3:Well, it's a perfect analogy.
Speaker 1:I see what you're saying, but yeah, I think I'm ashamed of my dad. I'm just kidding, it's just different times.
Speaker 3:Well, there's a reason for everything I say, and I'm a big believer in karma. And things come back and there's like you pay for the sins of your father type thing. You know, shit has happened in the past that you may have gotten away with, but somehow, some way, karma gets you and then you get paid, paid back for it. Right you know why didn't I get this position Right? Cause you didn't turn that fucker in back in the day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Stuff like that yeah, the world works itself out. Yeah, I see that. Um, yeah, stuff like that. Yeah, the world works itself out. Yeah, I see that. Yeah. So I'm trying to think of today's times, that you know, cops, they just don't get any breathing space on both sides, and that's one of the things I try to point out to the very extreme cop haters.
Speaker 3:Oh, let me interrupt you here. I don't know if it was on your facebook page or another page, but it. Someone said I think cops should record, should be recorded 24 7 yeah, why did he mute his mic? And? And then, of course, everybody chimes in Well, are you recording every second? You're on the job, right? Stuff like that. It's the mindset of some of the people today think well, you're a cop, everything should be recorded.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't agree with that I mean how?
Speaker 1:Yeah, one tech isn't there yet. It's really close. The battery life and all that stuff is getting better. But the way that these body cams work at least the ones that I have they've got GPS in them, they've got all the AI stuff running through them, so they're they're processing a lot more, so it's eating the battery life quicker. And for it to last throughout a whole shift is, if you work an eight hour shift, I think you could, but you you shouldn't. And the point being is, if I'm not on a call there, there's no need to be recording.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because I've just like anybody, even though I'm a public servant, I have private times, even at work. If I'm talking to my wife, if I'm going to the bathroom, if I my doctor calls me and he's like, hey, I got an update on your whatever. Whatever it is Like there's private time, my lunch break, all all these things. So I need to have the ability to turn it off. So I think the remedy is if I'm on a call, the moment I get dispatched, the camera comes on. If I have to make contact with a citizen, the camera comes on like there's there's rules, and I agree it should never be muted.
Speaker 3:Let me ask you this there are people out there that expect cops to be perfect and not to make any error. What other profession out there does the public have the same expectations? Right? Not even doctors, you know? It's like we would get in arguments on the street and I would bring this up. I said, okay, look, yeah, you don't approve of this officer's reaction. He overreacted or he shot someone when he shouldn't have, or whatever the use of force that they didn't agree with comes up. I said let me ask you this how do you train a human being to handle that life-threatening situation? You can't. You know, in academy you go through, uh, different scenarios, but you know at the end of the day, you're not going to get hurt, you're're going home, right? It's kind of like military people, infantry, an army. How do you train someone to let a bullet fly by their ear or to take a shot or whatever the use of force is?
Speaker 3:You can't truly train someone.
Speaker 1:For life and death.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can't, you can't. You can prepare them as best you can and hope they react the right way. Yeah, the first time I'd ever had gunshots go off after us downtown. Um, you know, that was the first time that ever happened and, it being in a city environment, I didn't know where the shots were coming from. Yeah, only thing that helped me was the crowd running, like how they ran. So, luckily, my reaction was draw my gun, run towards where everybody's running from, and I was with, uh, john dana actually, and so and my true reaction was move, move, move.
Speaker 1:So the training took over and then I laughed because Dana's pants got stuck for a second on a car that he was trying to maneuver around but hide, because gunshots were. I mean, you know, when they're coming towards you, you hear the zzzz, like we were hearing that, and so we were trying to take cover behind some cars while we like bounded to the position we couldn't shoot. We could see the guy through the crowd, but you obviously can't shoot because there's too many people. But I remember John's pants getting stuck for a second and him going, damn it. But we're both going towards it. And my point is, I trained my whole, I trained military up into that point. I probably had been in law enforcement between the military and civilian Maybe five to seven years.
Speaker 1:So I was I was in that five to seven year mark somewhere in there and I never knew how I was going to respond. I've been in fights. Yeah. I knew how I would respond in a fight, but that's a joke. Like people on our level.
Speaker 3:When you see a gun aimed at you and fire, and you hear bullets whizzed by. Yeah, how do you?
Speaker 1:prepare for that? Yeah, that's. My point is I was just I didn't know and I didn't think about anything. I remember afterwards we, you know we debriefed, we kind of had a little after action of how we handled it and you know, me and dana were not critical of each other, just is that we're ox?
Speaker 1:nope, that was a different one yeah yeah, so this was outside of, uh, the v lounge when that was a thing it was a fight in the parking lot we we were there already, like it wasn't us arriving to scene, we were just there hanging out. We saw the crowd start to gather around each other. So we're like, ah, you know, it's one of those. We start getting ready to start heading that way to break up whatever nonsense was going on. And then pop, pop, pop pop. So he wasn't shooting at us, he's just shooting towards us.
Speaker 3:Think of the factors here. You got a suspect at the worst part of their life making the worst decision of their life, right, right. And now you expect the cop, an officer, to make perfect decision. Yeah, perfect response to that.
Speaker 1:I mean, you got total opposites, right while hundreds of people are running towards you. Because that was the thing with me is I was like I'm just, you know, scanning hands, hands, hands, hands, hands, just looking to see where this gun was at, and once the crowd thinned enough, we could see and, unfortunately for us, the guy he was shooting at decided to run in our direction.
Speaker 3:See, if you would have had your Falcon he would have got him right away.
Speaker 1:I know, right, gondor, go. I don't know why that's my Falcon's name, oh shit, yeah, but I was. I remember afterwards I remember shaking Dana's hand, like when we got to the office. I was like hey man, I was like respect, like you, moving forward, helped me move forward too. I know it wasn't his intent, but watching him try to go in my, my brain or in my heart at the time was like I can't let him go alone, like I, like I helped. You know we, we both went forward.
Speaker 1:Um, and then a shout out to Johnny Salazar, cause he ended up T-boning this guy. So his gun stove pipes and he runs. And then he runs. I watch him throw the gun under a car and I'm calling out like he's going. At the time I think it would have been South is like he's going South. He's coming up to you know the street and Johnny gets on the horn. He's like he goes. I'm right there. I was like blue car, blue car. And he's like boom, just nails this dude, uh, in the in the vehicle. But yeah, he was able to get in a car and and run from us again.
Speaker 3:Like I said it was, it was so confusing and see today and this wasn't too long ago, but yeah, johnny's been around a while right? Yeah, today's officer wouldn't t-boned him today's officer wouldn't have T-boned him.
Speaker 1:No, no, yeah. But he stopped him right then and there it wasn't even a high-speed impact, it was just he was coming out of the parking lot. At that time Johnny was right there and Johnny was boom, just gets him. So nothing came of that. You know, we got the gun, got the shooter Nobody was hit.
Speaker 3:That was the crazy part. Nobody was hit I'm surprised nobody. Yeah, got on johnny for t-bone, that guy no, nobody it was a chain.
Speaker 1:Oh fuck, at that time I think kraus was on that. Yeah, now that I think about it, I think it was Krauss. I don't need to know about this. Yeah, I'm not 100% sure on that. Yeah, that was crazy. It was so that's back when downtown was bumping a lot Now. Yeah, now it's dead. Yeah, it's funny People are like what are you talking about? We're not going to say You'll figure it out, though, but yeah it's times have changed.
Speaker 1:I guess that's kind of. The theme of this episode is culture of policing and how it's changed.
Speaker 3:You know it really has. I mean, I can say what I see today. I'm not attracted to policing. I couldn't do it. I would right do something else, and I'm sure it's because of what I've experienced back in the day. Right which you know isn't wouldn't fly today, as would people back in the 50s and 60s.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the other part is too back when you were getting into it and when you were a cop, the public supported you for the most part. Well, now, like I was trying to say earlier, it's out of sight out of mind. Well, nothing's out of sight out of mind. Well, nothing's out of sight out of mind anymore. No. So now everybody can see and everybody's got to say so. Policing has traditionally always changed with the public opinion. You know, I think Rodney King was probably the big start to a lot of that, maybe prior to that with the dogs and the civil rights movement like dogs were treated differently after that, rightfully so.
Speaker 1:And then, when Rodney King happened, that showed the value of cameras, and so they started putting the dash cams in, and they were, you know, old school fucking recorders, yeah. And then the public's opinion kept having more and more influence because they were seeing more and more. So use of force, policies and procedures changed. We started getting more options pepper spray tasers you know different types of batons. Speaking of pepper spray different types of batons.
Speaker 3:Speaking of pepper spray, I don't know. I can't recall when it was authorized, but I carried that shit as a rookie for multiple years and used it and no one said a word. A pepper spray yeah, why would they it? Wasn't authorized back then. Oh, I see what you A pepper spray, yeah, why would they? It wasn't authorized back then, oh, I see what you're saying.
Speaker 3:Really yeah, huh, nothing. I wouldn't put it in my report and no one knew it happened. You know it's just yeah and you're a tent and Holy shit, you know nothing happened. You guys were fucking cowboys.
Speaker 1:Back in the day, you were just wild.
Speaker 3:Uh, yeah, you know, to a point, you know we're not wild west. Like what's that guy's that cartoon.
Speaker 1:Oh, the Sam. Yeah, what is his name? Yosemite Sam.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, that name.
Speaker 1:Yosemite Sam. Yeah, yeah, that's what it is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, that's what it seems like you know but I thought to me and I'm not justifying it, I guess I am why are you going to hold this tool from me if it could help me and maybe save my life? Right, and I thought it was worth the risk to get in trouble for it and I thought, well, how much trouble can I get for carrying pepper spray.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, back then it was flammable.
Speaker 3:so I didn't have a lighter as I was doing it when the taser came out.
Speaker 1:that was one of the things with the original pepper spray is that there was some sort of oil in the old pepper spray Capsule oil and so when they would hit them with the taser, if another officer came up didn't know that that person was exposed to the OC. The pepper spray was flammable. So that became an issue. It's not flammable anymore. They got rid of that part, but yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm still tripping out over the tasers now, oh yeah like the Taser 10?
Speaker 1:So when we went and did the filming, 10 shots, 45-feet range, individual shots. So for those listening, traditionally the way the taser has always worked is two probes go out at the same time in a v-shape and the more spread you get, the more chance you have of neuromuscular incapacitation. Well, oftentimes these fail. When officers are too close, they miss with one probe it. There's a lot of factors that make it more difficult to use versus one shot at a time. You just reach for glasses you didn't have on and now the Taser shoots. It's classified as a firearm, by the way, really, yeah, because it's got gunpowder in it to get. I think that's why it's got gunpowder in it to get. I think that's why it's got gunpowder in it to get the projectile out there farther um. That's why it gets 45 feet instead of 25 like it used to do.
Speaker 3:Okay. Now is the size still the same two probes, one one, 10 shots. Okay, if you just shoot it once, it's still gonna give the same effect no, you gotta get it once.
Speaker 1:it's still going to give the same effect. No, you got to get two connected. Well, that's what I mean With space. Yes, but if I was the Tasia right now, I'm going to go pop, pop, I'm just going to follow down your body line. So wider the spread, the better chance you have right. So typically what I want to do is either hit one above the hemisphere, one below, so your belt line is the hemisphere there, or equator, whatever you want to call it, or just start getting you until I fucking drop you.
Speaker 3:So if you hit four times, is that going to enhance?
Speaker 1:it. It's only going to go after the two best connections the computer system and it knows, fuck yeah. So it's gonna look for the best connection wow yeah, they're nuts. They're insane.
Speaker 3:I was watching I was looking through facebook and some guy has a page and he he's dedicated it to older footage of the city I worked at Okay. And I'm watching like, is it the dude that wears the weird hair? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Larry.
Speaker 3:I didn't look close at it.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 3:And it would be like a big event that happened, or shooting or something, and show all the cops show up. Oh yeah, I'm seeing yeah, and we're talking back in the early 80s and it's just seeing all these old old timers do the job and kind of do it different Right, Like especially they didn't have all this high-tech stuff, helping the job, yeah, and I started thinking man they had to do it. The hard way yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I actually just had this conversation the other day. It's like, you know, I work in the real-time crime center now and it's like if we were down, do you know how many work in the real-time crime center now? And it's like if we were down, do you know how many officers in the field would cry about it Not physically cry, but cry.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What do we do? What do we do?
Speaker 3:I can't imagine. That.
Speaker 1:Yeah. They just it is not. I don't want to come off. It's all of them. It isn't. There are some. There's still some awesome street goons, however you want to call them out there doing old school police. You know, going out, talking, making stops.
Speaker 3:You're going to laugh at me, but when I find um how people are, um, well, that towards you.
Speaker 1:You don't have to get closer.
Speaker 3:People are busted with certain crimes, Say they commit a crime and they get caught. And a big way they get caught is they carry their cell phone with them. Oh yeah, and the cell phone's just pinged in there. It catches them at the location, time and date and I'm still tripping out over that. And that's how long it's been around and things keep advancing.
Speaker 1:I tell people if you're going to commit a crime don't bring your watch. Don't bring your cell phone. It will betray you because everything is connected it will betray you because everything is connected.
Speaker 3:I told a client once. I said look, you're fucked. Well, how am I fucked? No one saw me. I said, well, they did you just don't know it. You got your phone, was with you so well, they had a phone dump on you and your phone was at the location of the robbery slash. Homicide Doesn't mean it was me. I lost my phone. Okay, all right. Then I started telling them about the flock cameras.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm you know LPRs yeah.
Speaker 3:And I mean it's just a dot the dot, the dot, the dot. Yeah. And where do these dots lead To you? Getting fucked, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's why I love like I'll brag about our homicide unit 100% solve rate. You're not getting one over on them, there's two. They've got too many tools now. Yeah, not too many, but they've got a lot of good tools, you know. So.
Speaker 3:I know the supervisor of homicide well and most of the investigators yeah. So the investigators, yeah, and I met one the other day or talked to him one the other day. He goes well, you work for the other side and I'm like, oh Jesus, they roll my eyes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think you're going to have to explain what it is you do now and then roll into your story, okay, so. Tell all the cops how you betrayed your earth when I retired.
Speaker 3:I refused to put on a uniform to do another job. Right, because most retired cops Go do a cop job somewhere else. Yep, I'm like why? Yeah, haven't you had enough? How much money do you need? Okay, I'm like, why haven't you had enough? How much money do you need? Okay, I get it if you're desperate, but I'm not desperate. Yeah, but I did find that I was bored and I could only woodwork so much, could only golf so much. You know, my hobbies can't, can't compensate for purpose. Well, yeah, yeah. So I had another officer who retired out of my class. Go, hey, why don't you take my job? I said, what's your job I work for. I'm a private investigator for a law firm. Okay, what do you do? I just helped them with the cases. I don't want to work, but I just happened to know the attorney that he worked for, or one of the attorneys he worked for, and I played hockey with him. He's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't say where, because they haven't sponsored the show.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:They don't get any love.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:And they never came on the show like they said they would. No, I hope they listen to this.
Speaker 3:They're too busy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't forget. I forget a lot, but don't forget that I don't forget betrayal Anyhow.
Speaker 3:I said well, what do I? Do you basically investigate cases of theirs, who's?
Speaker 1:theirs. Who are they? You investigate cases of.
Speaker 3:Of defendants criminals, defendants criminals Okay.
Speaker 3:And so Betrayed. Yeah, I'm on the dark side now. I love it, and so people I've had some flack here and there, but they don't know the job. And the job is hey, investigator, retired cop, would you work for me, a defense attorney, as an investigator? I said okay, defense attorney, what are my expectations? I want you to look at these cases and give me your input and try to prove that the cop screwed up. So basically, they want me to evaluate what some detective and patrol officer have put together, a case right, and what better person to know what a good case looks like than another cop that's retired? So I'll get these cases and I'll read the reports. I was. What I love about the job is everything that the detective turns in to the DA I get. I get everything. I watch everything, all the cameras, body cams. I read all the reports. I basically review the case and 99.9% of the time I'll go to the attorney and go yeah, it's a good this guy's.
Speaker 3:He's fucked and we have a term called he's a fuck chicken. Okay, I don't know why, but that's just something they came up with. I like it, oh so, um, that's the job, and I recall one day I was in a homicide trial from one of the clients, and all the defense attorneys do is try to present some kind of doubt.
Speaker 3:You know, they know, they're fucked Right, but they have to dot the i's and cross the t's because if it's a appointed case, every case that's appointed is reviewed by somebody. If they haven't done due diligence then they'll get lose, possibly lose their license.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:So I mean, if you're a cop, you want due process done in the most positive way to get a conviction right. Well, my position is to make sure that that has been done, kind of like.
Speaker 1:IAD. So that's why I get phone calls occasionally like what the fuck's up with your dad?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, why is he over there representing the shithead? Yeah, and I'm like okay, I'm not, I know this guy's guilty yeah okay, I'm not trying to get him off. I'm just trying to make sure the due process was done and the attorneys do the same thing. But they get investigators to help them because they don't know the ins and outs of of how a case has worked. I mean, they'd learned through multiple cases. But unless you actually done the job, or they don't, they don't know what to look for or do.
Speaker 1:So it's kind of funny that we had this discussion about karma. Karma, so the world comes around. You watched a guy, a lieutenant kick somebody in the teeth yeah, knew it was wrong, but wasn't in a position at the time for the culture of policing really to do anything about it, or brave enough, right. And here you are now pointing out that you could have somebody you know is guilty, but you saw that due process was messed up and you're doing the right thing, so karma's coming around. I can buy that. You know what I mean. Yeah, I think that's funny because this was not a planned conversation. I just said hey, dad, come over and let's do a podcast, good catch. So what are the odds?
Speaker 1:Because, I started this podcast ashamed of my dad, and karma brought you back around to where now I'm proud of you.
Speaker 3:Okay, let me ask you this question. Let me ask you this question, right, right, if you were an officer back in the day, when I was and experienced that, what would you have done?
Speaker 1:it's hard because I went from my culture, not like here's what, and this is kind of part of my platform it's one of the reasons I think I've grown so big is I'm constantly calling out bad cops when I see bad cop work and I've told people like there's a, there's like there's one incident where there's a sergeant that like basically choke, slams a female officer because she tries to pull him off. Yeah, I saw, remember, saw that you remember that video.
Speaker 1:And people have asked me like what would you have done? I was like I would have fucking grounded him, I would have put him in cuffs on the spot for assaulting another officer in front of me. I said but that is not even today. I don't think that's a common reaction.
Speaker 3:I don't. I would think my reaction would be to ground him, but that's it. Just to stop it. I don't think I would cuff him.
Speaker 1:I would cuff him, but I would want to see what she wants. Like you can't control your emotions, you just assaulted her in front of God and country and you're not going to make me look like a piece of shit because I need to protect her. Me in my position, especially as a Sergeant, like my job is to protect my people. That's how I show them I'm protecting them.
Speaker 3:So Okay, so you're a supervisor in this scenario.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, so, like me, as an officer, I'm kind of in your shoes. I don't know if I would have been depends how long I'd been on, I would have stopped it as of in your shoes. I don't know if I would have been Depends how long I'd been on, I would have stopped it as a rookie. Fuck, I don't know, as a rookie, I was just trying to figure this thing out.
Speaker 3:Now, not that I'm trying to redeem myself but you were gay.
Speaker 1:I get it, so there's a difference.
Speaker 3:In that period that excessive force assault. Basically Now, if I witness say some officers dealing dope or Actually committing.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, you saw a lieutenant commit a crime. That's a crime I was about to change. Well, you saw him commit a crime. No, what the lieutenant did. You saw a lieutenant commit a crime. That's a crime I was about to change. Well, you saw him commit a crime. No, what the lieutenant did, that was a criminal offense. The dude was cuffed.
Speaker 3:But if I would have, I guess, if I would have seen them do something worse. You know that's pretty bad Shoot somebody and walk away or steal something or whatever.
Speaker 1:Let me put it this way I would have told somebody you today, you today, in all your experience a retired lieutenant, you see another lieutenant do what that guy did today and you're still on the job. What would you have done?
Speaker 3:Yeah, he would have been reported. Yeah, I wouldn't have cuffed him. See, I would have.
Speaker 1:No. A cuffed man that can't defend himself Like you get your chance. If somebody spits on you the moment he spits on you, that's your opportunity. If you didn't seize the moment, but now you've kicked in someone's face, that's defeated.
Speaker 3:That is a you know in military stance, that's a. I can honestly say if I saw that then he would have been reported and probably dealt with that night. You know, I wouldn't have to do the cuffing, Somebody else would have Right.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, especially as a lieutenant. It wouldn't be you. You'd have been like Levine get him All right, sir. But yeah, I'm not extreme in a lot of things, but I really hate stuff once they're cuffed Like. I've got videos on the shelf right now that I haven't released yet of people fucking with cuffed prisoners.
Speaker 3:Well, let me also share this with you. Out of the amount of officers back in the day, that one lieutenant would be an anomaly. It's not like not everybody was doing it right, I don't want anybody to think that we were just lieutenants were running around kicking faces in, yeah yeah no, that's a good point.
Speaker 1:Um, I wasn't. I wasn't thinking that. I was more along the lines of because I just know how the conversations are going to go today. Hearing this, you know I'm I'm probably going to get guff already of. Like you know, how can you, how can you have a dad like that? Like I could just see some of the trolls coming out of the woodwork yeah, like what?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, I'm like something he did in the 80s. What do you want me to say? Like it's a different time, dad, like that, like I could just see some of the trolls coming out of the woodwork. Yeah, like what? Yeah, yeah, like something he did in the eighties. What do you want me to say? Like it's a different time, like.
Speaker 3:I didn't report a Lieutenant as a rookie. Yeah, you know for kicking someone's face in, Right or yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and back then you had no proof. It was your word against that guy, and then you had to have the bad guy willing to back him up and I would tell these people that are going to give you any guff, basically, hey, you know, basically those without sin cast the first stone, right, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 3:We all have shit that no one's like. I started off. No one's off. We can't be perfect. They expect us to be perfect, and if another cop expects us to be perfect, well, they're more fucked up because they know you can't yep.
Speaker 1:I've fucked up a lot, a lot, some I wish I could share, if I just I don't want to.
Speaker 3:Can you give like a hypothetical and a range of type?
Speaker 1:Okay, I saw a very eager officer set up on a dope location they're dealing and the officer didn't know what to do and was like okay, I know they're dealing over here so I'm going to make my move when I see it happen again. Well, he didn't, the move never. They left, they stopped, yeah. But he seen them ditch the dope. Okay, like they have a hidey spot Right, so they just left it there so they weren't carrying it. So the officer went over there, confirmed that the dope was there, and then that officer left the dope and then sent a message to the narcotics unit and was like it's here, go find it. Didn't seize the dope, like you probably should have done.
Speaker 3:What was the purpose of that?
Speaker 1:Because he wanted those guys to get caught.
Speaker 3:hypothetically, so he sees the transaction.
Speaker 1:They leave. Thinks he sees the transaction. Okay, they leave.
Speaker 3:He finds dope there, yep, and then he calls, and he calls and he says hey, I just think I saw a transaction and the dope is in the bushes or whatever. Right.
Speaker 1:And then doesn't sees the dope, doesn't hypothetically, I'm I'm conflicted on this.
Speaker 3:Hey, no, no, because he doesn't have to seize it right away. He just has to seize it eventually, right? So he's given the shitheads time to come back and get busted by narcotics, right? I'm good with that, you're good with that, okay?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Hypothetically. I know an officer that may have done that. So I'm heading into the headquarters, I'm in the parking garage and as I'm walking into the parking garage, which is attached to the jail cameras everywhere it's midnight shift I see a bag of weed on the ground.
Speaker 1:It could be oregano. You never know. Yeah, it could be.
Speaker 3:So I walk up to it, I stop, I look at it, I'm like that's a trap, that's a trap.
Speaker 1:I'm not falling for it he's watching.
Speaker 3:I just kept walking. I didn't see shit. You know, it could have been anything from like someone just fell out of their pocket they were going to drag it. But this was back in the day when they were setting shit up trying to catch people. Oh really, yeah they weren't catching me. Not today, and it was just a tiny amount for one joint.
Speaker 1:We have a dollar and some change in the real-time crime center and they're in two different locations and both of them have sticky notes on them. Of you're not catching me today, IA. So somewhere someway an officer left a dollar in that office and the change in the same thing and nobody will touch it and it's been there for years.
Speaker 3:They ought to bring in some civilian or some retired cop. Hey, there's a dollar. You want it? Yeah right.
Speaker 1:Just take it. We don't want to see it anymore.
Speaker 3:Take care of that problem for us. Yeah, oh, just take it we don't want to see it anymore.
Speaker 1:Take care of that problem for us. Yeah, oh shit, yeah. So we've been going an hour and a half. You got anything else you want to hit on that? We haven't hit.
Speaker 3:So how's the real-time crime center? How's it functioning? Is it rolling 100% or yeah?
Speaker 1:yeah, we're killing it 24-7. We've got 13 officers right now out of 16 that were approved, so we're able to run 24-7 pretty smooth and they're catching stuff every day. They're just great great guys and girls every day. They're just great great guys and girls. Um, one, you know, um remember the one that you used to think looked like the, uh, the asian badass on, uh, wolverine last name, at least yeah, um, I know her, she worked for me, yep.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, she is a badass.
Speaker 1:Prior Marine yeah, now she works with me.
Speaker 3:So my favorite story of hers Uh-oh, she gets a call from a country club. Well, it goes through dispatch, right yeah. Hey, I've got cars parked in this spot that aren't supposed to be parked there. I want them all ticketed. So she writes them all ticket. Parking tickets, just stupid parking tickets, right yeah. So as a good officer, will she? Uh, she goes by there a week later and sees the same area with cars parked there. So she gets out and writes some tickets and then the, the valet for the, the uh country club, who was the original complainant before, said oh, they're good, they're good, they can park there. She goes. You told me last week that they're not allowed to park there, so I'm writing them tickets.
Speaker 1:Right. No, not these.
Speaker 3:They're good, she wrote them anyways, right and a complaint I bet they lost their fucking minds.
Speaker 3:A complaint went up and I'm like there's no complaint here. Officer did what she was paid to do and I'm not going to discipline an officer for that, I'm not going to write one up for that. So you know, a couple weeks go by and I catch her in the sector. I said that was epic, she goes what I said. You got called out there to write tickets, what they wanted you to do, and you did your job and you took care of business and you wrote tickets and, as a good officer, you went back there a few days, a week later, saw more cars there and wrote them tickets. But they got pissed because they wanted those cars there. Right, I'm like you're my hero.
Speaker 1:With a little devil dog. I told her that yeah, prior Marine, she don't fuck around. Been a little devil dog. I told her that yeah, prior Marine, she don't fuck around. No.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, badass bitch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's cool, she's fun and she's kicking ass. She's already you know she's in that. You know older generation of officers now. So for her learning the real-time crime center stuff, learning curve's a little steeper.
Speaker 3:But I think she's been on the training program for two or three weeks. She's good to go if she's still the way she was back in the day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, she's all business, yeah yeah, she's, she's a good cop, you know, and I I rolled around with her, um, you know, beat partners and stuff for a while and and so now, being her supervisor which is a weird, weird thing I just tell her. I was like, just keep doing you. I was like I've got no issues with how you are as a cop, I just don't ever put me in a bad position. That's really all I can ask.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she was always.
Speaker 1:She wouldn't. She's an honor guard.
Speaker 3:That's right, she's just impressive.
Speaker 1:She is, she's awesome, she's corny to say she's honorable.
Speaker 3:As a military person. I respect. I can safely say that most of the female rookies that I had the last five, maybe ten years, five to ten years, last five or ten years the females have outperformed the males Really. Yes, Okay, and I'll get specifically last couple years before I retired, in 18 or 17. I don't know. I had three female rookies and they just took care of business and numbers were always high.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And they didn't call you or call the sergeant and hey, I got this problem. They just took care of business, made decisions and did the job and didn't care, wasn't looking for accolades. And I had three females that I called. I said you and you and you my office after roll call and they come in like Seems sexist. Yeah, they're like what the fuck we do Right? And I go. I don't know the exact words I said. I said y'all, I just wanted to give you kudos for just kicking ass, taking names not being a problem and making the men look like amateurs. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And they're like oh thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean, they're just doing a good job yeah. And it was. You know how you get people. They like to brag about what they did. They never bragged about it, they just did the job, yeah, and they were impressive I've always preferred female.
Speaker 1:Like if you're gonna have a beat partner, um and and for those listening, like typically when when I'd ride around in patrol, it wasn't uh, you didn't have a partner, like that wasn't a thing. So if you're thinking, if, where you're at, you're picturing partners that's not what I'm talking about Like you had your assigned beat and then normally the person whose beats are adjacent to you you would answer calls with quite a bit and you tend to gravitate towards one. So you had your beat partners, your sister beats, whatever you want to call it, or beats whatever you want to call it. And I would prefer if I had a female. I always preferred a female because every time we'd handle a domestic or something that was a little more your words needed to be there. Having a female partner was amazing. I always felt like it complemented the job.
Speaker 3:I always felt like it complemented the job. Well, if all things are equal, right, it just enhances your capability to meet expectations for the citizens. For example, you go to domestic. Well, you're both men. You don't understand Right Now.
Speaker 1:You have that other gender. You got a barrier there, yeah, but yeah, if you have a female with you, you've got a better chance of breaking through. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, so I probably got that from you because of Renee, because you and Renee were ride or die forever.
Speaker 3:So Renee kept me out of trouble a lot, yeah, um. One story with that is we would work the street that had all the prostitutes on it um did it rhyme with?
Speaker 1:lamb bastard yeah.
Speaker 3:And there was this one that was just probably the queen of all prostitutes, the bottom bitch, that's what we call her. She was always active and hated everybody, hated all the cops, and we just knew if she was out there. It was an instant citation, because she's out there soliciting right, and this is when aids first came out. Wait, oh shit, what was that?
Speaker 1:90 I don't know. This is before I wasn't old enough to know I mean. So aids I first started learning about aids with forrest gump, so so we typically just we pull out.
Speaker 3:Hey, come here. Her name is tammy, come here, tammy, come get your ticket. Ah, motherfucker, right, yeah, and she started going. If you didn't have that badging gun, blah, blah, I'd whoop your ass. Blah, blah, blah. You know all that shit. Right, she's in the backseat. Just one time, right, and I don't know why, but she got to me, she got under your skin, oh yeah, oh geez, oh yeah, and Renee's driving. I'm the passenger, and usually the passenger does the ticket right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would hope so. Somebody's got to drive.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so she's just motherfucking me and I'm just brewing and I don't know it gets to me right and she goes if you didn't have that fucking badging gun. I'll whoop your fucking ass, you motherfucking bitch blah blah and I just fucking snapped. Oh jesus, I take my gun off, my badge off and this. This is when we had I was in a bike unit at the time, yeah and we had fucking t-shirts with a fucking tin badge. Oh yeah, can you believe that shit? No, yeah, that's how backwards we were. Oh my God.
Speaker 1:So shirts all saggy on one side. I take it off.
Speaker 3:I thought, my shit, I swing open that door and she's. She's like you're about to fight a female, maybe. What a female. Maybe, Maybe what a dick. Renee's screaming Fred, stop, stop. And I'm like I'm just giving her a ride. Country accent coming out. I can hear it you fucking blah, blah, blah. And then Renee kept screaming Fred, stop.
Speaker 2:She's got AIDS and like, oh Jesus, stop, she's got AIDS.
Speaker 3:And then AIDS kicked in Bloop Like get back.
Speaker 1:Did you have cages back then? Yes, okay. Well, at least you had a cage to keep you separate. Oh geez, old piece. That's funny, the flint came out of you.
Speaker 3:Oh fuck, I mean you know, because we dealt with her weekly yeah.
Speaker 1:So you had a relationship.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and she, she knows you, she it just built up, she got you, she got me, she got you. Renee saved me. Respect, I hope she's still around. Oh, she would do that. No, she fucked up big time.
Speaker 1:She's probably dead.
Speaker 3:now. She would drive by, or we would drive by, or cops would drive by and she hit all cops and she would lift up her skirt and she's naked, indecent. And you would see all that shit Gross Right and the rookies would eat it up and stroke her. But Right. And the rookies would eat it up and stroke her, but Right, I guess that's the wrong word.
Speaker 1:Right, or ticket, Ticket, guys, Ticket. I was just thinking that too. I was like oh Jesus, yeah ticket.
Speaker 3:The old timers were like just keep driving, Keep driving by yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you learn, you do learn. I have worked in that bar district. When I worked there, it was getting my rookies, because they were truly rookies. Zero to three years was like.
Speaker 3:Nobody wanted that beat no and all the rookies got stuck with it, right.
Speaker 1:And so having them, I think for me as a new sergeant was the best experience I could have, because I just sit back and laugh, because I'm watching them. Like you know, they're a cat with a laser, you know seeing the dot and they're just chasing the dot everywhere they go. Multiple opportunities to see the dot, yes, and I'm just like relax, relax. Like you know, there's a fight in the bar. Let them fight. There's no reason to put us. There's too many people we cannot protect ourselves. Like, let the bouncers do their job. If, if somebody is crying for help, then we'll go in, but until then stay out.
Speaker 1:And so it's it's it's a hard, but for me I'm just sitting back laughing Cause it's one, I've got the confidence of having a grappling background and all that stuff. But two, it's just seeing the eagerness and not seeing the bigger picture.
Speaker 3:I've only worked a bar once and I would never do it again.
Speaker 1:Oh really no, it's too busy. I didn't work bars as a part-time, if that's what you're referring to yes. Yeah, I never worked part-time bars. I did one as a owed favor and the person I'm going to call him out, but he asked me to work a particular bar, he's like it's like 30, you know the typical crowd's 30 to 45. Like there's never any problems and it's down in the country area. I'll put it that way.
Speaker 3:It's a tourist trap.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and his name is Garwacky, by the way. Yeah, I'm calling you out, Garwacky.
Speaker 3:That's where I had my issue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so I worked that one spot, that one night and sure as shit, of course I had to deal with some bullshit. Um had to call patrol, have them come handle it, because you know, working a part-time, you can't deal the paperwork and all that stuff. But I was there. I was only supposed to be there till 2 30 and I'd be in there until like 4.30. It's miserable, I don't get the.
Speaker 3:I know why they're working it it's for the women.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess that could be it too For me. I worked part-time for the money, but I worked smart ones.
Speaker 3:Well, if you're a single male officer and you work a bar part-time, you're going to draw the chicks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the badge bunnies are going to come flying, You're going to get them. I used to give them my wife's number. They never used it. That was the best part. I would tell her too. I'd be like, Sarah, I gave your number out to this girl. She didn't like it Either that night she didn't like it either way she didn't like it no, but I would avoid them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I, they're too much work. Yeah, and how many complaints and investigations come from? From bars officers working bars yep fun.
Speaker 1:Yep, I would you know, and that was part of my job as a supervisor down on that bar district was trying to let my guys know of the problems of working these types of areas. So you know, but you can lead them to water. Let my guys know of the problems of work in these types of areas, so you know. But you can lead them to water, can't make them drink.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, if I was to have my wish, I wish society would come to the conclusion, or the awareness, that, yes, you want officers to be as best as possible, as good as possible, but you can't expect perfection from a human right. You just can't. And you know, we talk about, uh, training, and I get so tired of hearing we need new training, we need more training, this and that. Well, most of the training they're trying to associate with an issue isn't going to work. Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know. Either you have the common sense not to do what they're bitching about or you don't, and a lot of that falls on the recruitment of the officers. You don't know if someone has it or not. You try to screen as much as possible. But you're asking recruitment to have a crystal ball to read the future, read people's minds and let's face it, if people knew my background, they would have hired me as a cop, right, because I was a heathen. That's why I think I became a good cop, because I knew all the tricks of the trade, right.
Speaker 1:I think that's why I've grown up in Flint Like you just you had. I have friends that are in jail now. I have, like I saw all sides and I think that's what helped me, what I consider being good cop.
Speaker 3:I've had friends say who hired you as a cop.
Speaker 1:Right, why? Yeah, I can't believe they gave you a badge. With your temper. What? Right, yeah, I will say this about your temper You're real patient up until the point, you're not, and then it's, then it's, then it's over with, then it's extreme, I'm like yeah, I go from, I can, I have a threshold, and it's pretty.
Speaker 3:I'm pretty mellow, especially when I know I'm, uh, in a role that has to be careful, even with administrative things. If I snap, I snap, yeah, I fucking snap yeah, and most people haven't seen it, but yeah, it's not pretty.
Speaker 1:My favorite thing is your excessive swearing, like do it to the point where it doesn't make sense. You'll drop an F-bomb, but you'll drop 18 of them in 14 different ways and I'm like that doesn't even make sense.
Speaker 3:I'll share you a snap. I had at work, when I was in a commander's meeting and I had a question about a stupid blue team.
Speaker 1:Explain what a blue team is it's an investigation?
Speaker 3:for officers if something happened, something needs an investigation to see if they did anything wrong. And this thing was called the blue team. It was supposed to replace the old system of investigation. Well, this captain or no deputy chief wanted or he's a captain, he wanted the old system attached to the new Blue Team. I'm like that don't make any sense. Why do you want us to do it the old way and attach it to the new system? Why not just incorporate?
Speaker 1:everything, just do the new way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So I questioned that to the deputy chief and then the captain that wanted that got pissed and he goes well, I'll tell, tell you why I'll answer that question, lieutenant. That's because you, you, you, you, you, and he starts to go on and say you forgot this, you forgot that, you did this, you screwed up. It was the worst investigation ever and he embarrassed me in front of all my peers.
Speaker 1:Did it rhyme with Battlington? No, wasn't that? No, okay.
Speaker 3:It reminded me of Ogogo oh. Okay, I know what you're talking about. Which we ended up becoming kind of civil yeah. So I'm like this is bullshit. So after that meeting I went down and I told the chief. I said that's bullshit what he did and I just went off and he started coming at me again.
Speaker 1:In front of everybody.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but everybody was dispersing right and I go, I go, I go. I am so sick of this fucking shit. If you had a problem with my fucking report, you should have told me and I would have took care of it. But no, you didn't and said what the fuck? And then you embarrass me in front of all these people. I'm mad enough to know. Admit if I'm wrong, I'll take care of it. But you never gave me that opportunity. You just want to go fuck me over all these people. And then, while we're arguing, my captain goes that's on me, he texts me. That's on me, I just took care of it it didn't let you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, shit, dang. So I I think I kind of remember this story. Did this same person give a training prior to that about how to discipline and not to like praise in public, critique and private? Was that that same? He was there, oh okay. That, that training.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then he goes and does that Right.
Speaker 1:So he didn't pick up anything. So the point that I'm getting to for those listening is I remember this situation and my dad telling me that they had just had training about not to critique your people in public. To make sure you pull them aside. And if you're going to, you know, praise them in public. You know if you've got something good to say, but if it's bad, pull them aside. And then not even 10 minutes later.
Speaker 3:He got so butthurt that I questioned why we were doing attaching this old system to the new system. Why can't it just be already incorporated?
Speaker 1:And he got butt hurt and you didn't even say his name.
Speaker 3:No, and I didn't even know it was him.
Speaker 1:In your fit of rage, did you try to fight him?
Speaker 3:I tried to get him to hit me. He wouldn't hit me. Okay, he wouldn't hit me. He wouldn't hit you. No, because I knew I could. You could take the hit. I could take the hit and justify defending myself.
Speaker 1:You should have whooped in that ass, oh shit. Well, live and learn, folks. Live and learn.
Speaker 3:I think it's a good spot to stop. Yes, my wife's calling me, we're gonna go fishing, okay, and uh, labor day projects, uh, I don't fishing, that's the project.
Speaker 1:It's labor day. That's what I'm saying, right? Um well, I mean what's today, saturday? So it's tomorrow's labor day.
Speaker 3:Yeah, one thing that I can say is that you have definitely not take the course of action that I did. I was honestly. In my opinion, I was on a fast track because I knew all the right people. I was friends with all the right people. It's just that, of the people that make decisions, I was friends with half and the other half were useless to me because they were pathetic and I spoke my mind to them when I shouldn't have. And they ranked up so high that they never forgot Bitch in the ass.
Speaker 1:Well, that's my biggest fear with this podcast is I speak my mind. I call out what I think needs to be called out, and I'll fully admit I've eaten crow before. I've been wrong. It's not, it's just just. Is what it is. Like you said, we all fuck up. I'll, I'll speak my mind. If I get new information and it shows that I'm wrong, I'll say okay, well, this is what I thought and this is why. But this is what we figured out. This is you. You changed my mind. I don't double down. Let's put it that way.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, I follow your career and your podcast. I can't see anybody. Of course, I guess I'm biased, are you? Finally?
Speaker 1:admitting, I'm your son Today.
Speaker 3:Today, okay, but are you finally admitting I'm your son today, today, okay, um, you know, I don't. I don't see. I can see some of the old timers who are crusty, maybe not agreeing or on everything, but uh, you're trying to do something good and if people can't see that then they've got an issue of blocking something out, or yeah, I don't know, something that they just can't compensate for maybe I don't know how to put it?
Speaker 1:um yeah so well, we gotta start taking advantage. Are you gonna be back monday night? Do you think, yeah, we'll? Are you going to be back Monday night? Do you think, yeah, we'll be back? You want to jump on the live from your house?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't have that camera hooked up anymore.
Speaker 1:Get it set up. Oh my God, it is not that hard. Why'd you take?
Speaker 3:it off. We had to do something, oh Jesus.
Speaker 1:Okay, get it set back up.
Speaker 3:I've been trying to get you on the line. Maybe my son would come over and hook it up for me, but I could. I could do that to do that so well, here's an issue. I've got six guests at the house are they still there?
Speaker 1:there Still Fuck. Okay, I don't want you on, I'm not dealing with that. I'm not dealing with the constant interruptions and the sounds in the background.
Speaker 2:You might have to wait, yeah, we're going to have to wait.
Speaker 1:That's miserable.
Speaker 3:When the fuck, are they out of there? You know what would be fun If you could get Lynn on your podcast. Just talk about whatever. Lynn on your podcast just talk about whatever, Just just bullshit Because your, your, your, true uh chemistry would probably be, very entertaining.
Speaker 1:I'd be like you guys won't believe this. But this is my fucking sister. You're not reading her face wrong. She's a bitch. That's just how. That's just how she is. Uh I love you, lynn, I love you long time. Yeah, shit, yeah, no, that'd be fun. If she's down, she's got to understand now it's what?
Speaker 3:what's impressive with her is that she's a teacher she's a teacher and does well.
Speaker 1:I can't believe she has the patience for it, because she doesn't have the patience for me. She doesn't have the patience for me.
Speaker 3:You know she coaches cross country and she's the head of the food bank at the school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe I'll try to get her on. For sure I don't have a Because she around. For sure I don't have a somebody I won't have on she tried to be tried to get on the department yeah, she tried to be a cop. Yup, she was too honest. Apparently they weren't having it your stepdad's Lieutenant, gilbert.
Speaker 3:No, fuck, no, get out of here. You almost didn't make it because of me.
Speaker 1:I know, I know I was too honest. It happens.
Speaker 3:How often have you been intoxicated? About 380 times. What?
Speaker 1:You didn't define intoxication. You tried to make me define it. All right Now we got to tell that story so real quick when I was trying to get onto the department I'm on. There's a question in the background, there's two. One question is define intoxication, like your definition of intoxication. And the next question was how many times you've been intoxicated. So to me, I'm a nerd and I'm like oh well, intoxication is anytime you introduce something to your system that affects your thinking. So one sip of alcohol, technically, if you want to be technical about it, scientific is Big bang theory yeah, big bang theory that you are intoxicated.
Speaker 1:It doesn't mean that you lose all faculties, but that's a level of intoxication. So then, on the very next question, they said how many times have you been intoxicated? Doesn't mean that you lose all faculties, but that's a level intoxication. So then, on the very next question, they said how many times you've been intoxicated? I was like well, fuck, according to my definition, now I can't lie. So I was like I did some bro math. I was like I've been 21 since this age and I'm here so 380 something times. And what I found out they meant was like blackout drunk. And I was like so they, they made me clarify and I was like oh, blackout drunk. Twice, like I knew right off the top of my head. I know both times and I can tell you both times. Um, because the second time involved me inside of a kroger e trying to eat a frozen pizza, a DiGiorno it's. Digiorno.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but yeah, so they asked that question, I clarified. And the person that was one of the determining factors at the time. Captain over there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, was not happy with that answer and was like nah, I'm good, and we were dealing with severely numbers of officers getting in trouble for drinking Right. And he didn't want to risk it Right, this is a buddy of mine.
Speaker 1:Right and I understand, but I clarified it. I feel like I fixed that problem, that justification, and my other thing was like your whole job is a background investigation. I have no write-ups. Yeah, in my entire career I went, I got an honorable discharge, active duty, all of these things. I got my degree while I was in like there's a whole bunch of factors in this and I was a cop at another place with no, no issues like do the math? Do the math? Like what's the fucking problem?
Speaker 3:so yeah, so he didn't want to budge, so we had to go around his, around him. Yeah, with the connections that I had, yeah to make sure it wasn't an issue.
Speaker 1:You're right it shouldn't have been an issue. Shouldn't have. And that's my thing is like you're getting, like your job is to do a background check. Do an actual background check, don't just get stuck on one thing.
Speaker 3:Nerd, nerd, yeah, fucking, nerd. So, but me and that guy are cool now, so yeah, oh he, I mean, we've always been cool, but I didn't get that. But, um, he's a big time. Uh, um, he's a big time. He fixes up, makes Mustangs, old Mustangs.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, that's the wrong one.
Speaker 3:I know who you're talking about We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it after Put his name down.
Speaker 1:You're thinking about yes, yes, it's, it's, this is the one, that's the one.
Speaker 3:I'm getting mixed up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's Mustang, guy.
Speaker 3:Right, he's the one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've been mad at the Mustang guy alright with that, guys.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening everybody else have a good night, take it easy.
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