From SWAT to Chief: Eddie Garcia’s No-BS Blueprint for Safer Streets

He’s a cop’s cop with four stars on his collar — and zero tolerance for fluff. Chief Eddie Garcia brings real talk, real results, and a career built from the streets up.

In this powerful conversation, Chief Garcia traces his path from SWAT and fugitive work to leading one of America’s fastest-growing cities. He breaks down the blueprint for safer streets and stronger community trust—and why Texas gives police leaders the freedom to actually make it happen.

Garcia lays it all out:
💥 The difference between policing in California vs. Texas—and how real support changes the game.
💥 Using data, tech, and criminologists to make officers faster, safer, and more effective.
💥 How AI and real-time tracking are reshaping field work (less clicking, more policing).
💥 The truth about use of force—from Graham v. Connor to the realities caught on body cams.
💥 Why accountability and support can (and must) coexist.

At the core of Garcia’s leadership is patrol—where policies meet people. He’s rethinking staffing, empowering corporals and sergeants, and building mentorship that turns buy-in into real results. Add his signature approach to community—taco truck talks, church visits, late-night check-ins—and you’ve got a chief leading with both toughness and heart.

🎙️ Whether you’re in law enforcement, leadership, or just care about how cities stay safe, this episode delivers unfiltered insight you won’t hear anywhere else.

Peregrine.io: Turn your worst detectives into Sherlock Holmes, head to Peregrine.io tell them Two Cops One Donut sent you or direct message me and I'll get you directly connected and skip the salesmen.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Purpose Of The Interview
• 1:36 Why Garcia Chose Policing
• 10:40 Early Career, SWAT And Fugitive Apprehension
• 18:15 Building A Fugitive Unit And Training
• 29:24 Homicide Work And Interviewing Lessons
• 40:56 Culture Shock: California To Texas Support
• 49:24 Community Trust, Media, And Telling Good Stories
• 59:49 Hitting The Ground Running As New Chief
• 1:05:14 Data-Driven Crime Plan And Technology
• 1:13:34 Investing In Patrol, Staffing, And Growth
• 1:24:54 Use Of Force: How A Chief Reviews Cases

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Disclaimer, welcome to Two Cops One Donut Podcast. The views and opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Two Cops One Donut, its hosts or affiliates. The podcast is intended for entertainment and informational purposes only. We do not endorse any guests' opinions or actions discussed during the show. Any content provided by guests is of their own volition, and listeners are encouraged to form their own opinions. Furthermore, some content is graphic and has harsh language, your discretion advised, and is intended for mature audiences. Two Cops Wendona and its host do not accept any liability for statements or actions taken by guests. Thank you for listening. All right, welcome back. I'm your host, Eric Levine, and today I have the privilege of interviewing the chief of Fort Worth Police Department, Eddie Garcia. How are you, sir?

SPEAKER_02: 0:58

I'm doing well.

SPEAKER_00: 0:58

Thanks for having me. Not a problem. Um, this is the first time I've formally got to meet you, but um as we kind of talked offline, I also do this podcast stuff. So they thought it'd be a good fit for me to come in and try to interview the new chief, try to get to know you on a more of a personal level and try to let the officers that are out there know who they're working for. All right. Let's do it. You ready? Let's roll because I am going to ask all the Oprah style questions. All right. And get no deep into your psyche. No, I'm not going to do all that. I just want to have fun, um, be loose. And like I we kind of told you, it's kind of like a Rogan thing. So um, first thing I want to get into, sir, is there's a lot of reasons people get into law enforcement. For me in particular, one of the things that drew me into it was my grandfather was a firefighter. Um, my dad actually retired uh police uh from the department that you're at now. And those are two drawing factors that got me into it, but it wasn't the big reason that drew me into it. The big reason that got me into law enforcement was when I would go to like family reunions and stuff like that. Who who got all the respect in the family? Who wanted who did people want to sit down and talk to? It was always first responders. It didn't matter if it was military, uh, you know, doctors, uh, any of that stuff. It it came down to the first responder life. It was the firefighters, the military, and police. That's who everybody would sit down and talk to. And growing up, seeing that, how they were the life of the party. Everybody wanted to talk to them. That was kind of really the big draw for me into law enforcement. I wanted my family to respect what I did. And I did have people in the family that, you know, did it, like my dad and my grandfather. That was another draw, but it wasn't the main factor. It was just the way the family respected them. And I wanted to earn their respect. And I think that's what drew me into law enforcement. So I'm curious for a guy that's made it all the way up as high as you can go, what drew you into it in the first place?

SPEAKER_02: 2:51

Oh man, I my reasons were probably a lot simpler. Uh, I'll be honest with you. Like I uh when I was in high school, my sophomore year, we had this research paper called an iSearch paper. And it was like the biggest uh assignment you can do in your English class, right? My buddy at the time, his dad was a sergeant for uh uh a smaller city. And I did my project on him and police work, right? And I ended up starting to like it. And, you know, back, I'll tell you this, back in the late 80s, early 90s, when I got hired, anybody that got hired back then that tells you the reason they wanted to be a police officer wasn't because of the show cops at the time, would be lying to you. Uh, and I tell that to people all the time. Walk out if someone says that back in the late 80s, early 90s, they became a cop and the show cops had nothing to do with it. Man, I'll be frank with you. I was young, I wanted to catch the bad guy.

SPEAKER_01: 3:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 3:43

I mean, I'll be frank with you. I wanted to, I wanted to catch criminals. That's what really drew me to police work. Um, and you know, having that that satisfaction, right? The uh one of my first sergeants always would tell me we had a lot, you know, beat responsibility, things of that nature. And he would say, Hey, um, when you're a beat officer, you're beat, you're the chief of police of your beat. Right. Take that onus responsibility, man. So I just I loved, I love catching crooks. Yeah. That's, I mean, I'd like to make it sound like it was, you know, I mean, you have great reasons that you wanted to be for me. I wanted to catch the bad guy.

SPEAKER_01: 4:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 4:17

Um, you know, uh, it was helpful. You know, I speak fluent Spanish, right? So, you know, working with uh with the community and and working, working that and catching crooks in all parts of town, that's what I love doing. That's what I wanted to do. And uh it's kind of always been part of part of my cop DNA. And that's that's really one of the reasons I wanted to be cop.

SPEAKER_00: 4:37

Okay, so we're we're already kind of foreshadowing into some of the stuff we're gonna talk to much later, but I can guarantee right now, when officers hear their chief say that, they're gonna be like, this might be my guy. This might be my guy.

SPEAKER_02: 4:50

I mean, we'll talk more about it. I mean, I am who I am, and I wear it on my sleeve, and I'm very honest with people of how I got promoted. I got here a different path. Um, I want people to know there's not one way to become a chief if that's what they want to do. Um, but yeah, man, I just wanted to catch crooks. That's that's that's that's as a 21-year-old kid, that's one of the reasons I wanted to solve problems, solve people problems, and I'd say by catching crooks, you're solving a lot of problems.

SPEAKER_00: 5:12

And so that's and cops was a major influence on that.

SPEAKER_02: 5:15

Cops was a huge I mean, who didn't want?

SPEAKER_00: 5:16

I mean, come on.

SPEAKER_02: 5:17

I mean, I don't know when it became taboo to like to talk about like how cool that show was to see cops, you know, taking the criminal element off the street.

SPEAKER_00: 5:25

Yeah, like Bro, as soon as you heard it, come on, you were like, I'm in right now, I'm in. As soon as you heard it.

SPEAKER_02: 5:31

I mean, it was. I mean, I'd say what, if you were to look back and if people were honest, those like me that got hired in the late 80s, early 90s, I mean, that that the reason why, like there's probably there was a big hiring push back then. I remember when I applied to the San Jose Police Department, um, you know, they would have two big hiring cycles a year, and there's like 4,000 people applied for 45 spots.

SPEAKER_01: 5:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 5:54

Right. And that was a it was a usual thing. I mean, I'm sure those um, and whether it was cops, right? Or whether it was the movies that showed or the you know, you know, that showed all that stuff, all that stuff played a role. But you kind of like, wow, that's that's freaking cool. I wanna, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna catch crooks, I want to solve people's problems, and I want to catch the criminal element.

SPEAKER_00: 6:12

Yep. I remember when my dad was on it. It wasn't your dad was on it, they didn't follow him, he just showed up to a scene, and I remember seeing him like, oh my god. Call him up, Dad, you got cops. He's like, it showed up. He didn't know that he was fully in it. And um, yeah, it was uh it was one of those days you look up to your dad, you're like, dang, that's awesome. That's that's famous. That's pretty cool, yeah. I wish they would have followed him around. Yeah, but I mean Fort Worth was one of their flagship cities that they were at. Um actually on my other side projects that I do for podcasting, uh, we had Jerry Worms, who's the very first officer they ever followed around out of uh Florida. Um I can't remember. Maybe it was Miami Dade, but yeah, we had him on.

SPEAKER_02: 6:57

He was talking about Miami Dade, Broward County. I think Broward County was probably on that show on that, like constantly.

SPEAKER_00: 7:04

He was famous because he carried nunchucks. Ah, yeah. Jerry Worms carried nunchucks, so badass.

SPEAKER_02: 7:09

But uh San Diego PD used to have, I don't know if they still do, but they used to have nunchucks as part of their uh Yeah, they called them foldable batons, something like that.

SPEAKER_00: 7:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, it's a nunchuck, bro.

SPEAKER_02: 7:19

I was never, I was never, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 7:20

I was you mean you're product of the 80s. We had the Ninja Turtles during that era.

SPEAKER_02: 7:24

I mean, I'm I go I'm a product of the 70s, 80s, 90s, and you name it, but uh but yeah, I was more of a straight baton guy. I wasn't really into the okay but all right.

SPEAKER_00: 7:34

So you jump into to law enforcement. Um, did you take the typical path where you were like, I gotta go get a degree, I gotta go do this?

SPEAKER_02: 7:41

What no, absolutely not, man. I, you know, I was uh um, you know, I applied, you know, there's three places I would apply for, right? I came born in Puerto Rico, moved to San Jose, California, uh when I was when I was young. Yeah, I was born on I was born on the island, which is why I have my Boricua tattoo on there. So no, I was born on the island, moved to uh moved to California as a at a young age, right? So I learned how to speak English in San Jose, right? And uh, and so being a police officer in San Jose was a big deal to me, right? Because I'm like, you know, listen, I'm you know, I learned to speak English here, man. So if you're new here, whatever, I understand. And uh so it was important to me for San Jose. But back in the in the early 90s, man, it was really hard uh to get into public safety, right? And and I applied when I was 20, 20 and a half years old, I applied. Couldn't be a cop in California until you're 21. And I spoke Spanish fluently, right? Like as I mentioned before, right? And back in the back in those days, if you spoke Spanish, um, how to clean record and how to pulse, you were shoeing. You were shoeing into public safety, whether it was fire and PD, right? So chose PD. Um, I got hired, I I turned 21 in December, uh, and I started in February, uh, that following February, right? So um in uh 1992 and went through through that. Um I didn't, I had uh my two years in college um and really worked, you know, all most of the units, right? I worked uh worked patrol, uh, worked on Codex Enforcement, uh worked on the SWAT team, uh, did fugitive apprehension. Oh uh then I got promoted to sergeant. Okay, and uh I worked uh uh in general detectives as a homicide investigator, and then I got promoted to uh to uh uh I'm sorry, backup. So after SWAT uh in fugitive apprehension, I got promoted to sergeant. Um and then as a sergeant I worked in uh general detectives, it's called the Night Detective Bureau, and then I was a homicide investigator. Uh then I got promoted to uh lieutenant uh from there.

SPEAKER_00: 9:50

And so as a sergeant you were investigating homicides? Yes. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02: 9:54

Yes, we investigated homicides. We didn't mention it, but it wasn't, it was a different, different thing. So as a sergeant, uh actually my partner, which ended up being the worst kept secret when I became chief. He was my he became my my executive assistant chief, which is probably the department's worst kept secret. But um, as it comes to it, right? So, lieutenant, so this is when I got the uh the words that we all uh hate in this line of work sometimes, but I'm so glad that it happened. Uh the assistant, the executive assistant at the time uh calls me in and goes, you know what, Eddie, we need to round you out. Ah, right. So I got sent to be the lieutenant over community affairs, community services division. Uh, which honestly, man, the the two and a half, I think about two and a half years or so that I spent there was awesome, man. That was the first time, to be honest with you, that there's more to this job than the things we wear around our belt.

SPEAKER_00: 10:43

I was gonna say, how did that I I want to side rabbit rabbit pat this one real quick. You went from being a street goon, basically. Is the the I don't want to use the term gold vernacular. I know. I was a I was a cop. You was a cop's cop. I was a cop's cop from from what it sounds like, and jumping in the community, hearing that, would be so demoralizing. So the fact that you came out of that with a different perspective sounds like whoever mentored you into that position did you a solid did me an absolute solid, knowing now, right where I'm at now, that I wouldn't be able to hear if I didn't do that, right?

SPEAKER_02: 11:20

I needed to get rounded out, um, you know, and see things from a different perspective. And again, recognizing that this job is more than what we wear around a belt, and it's so important to get out there and dealing with the programs and getting out with our community and making sure that uh, you know, we put our best face forward and make sure that can that we're there for the community and realize, hey, we're we're the community, the community's us. Uh so it was a great time spent there. So, you know, after that, uh same executive assistant uh calls me in his office one day and he goes, Hey, where do you want to go? You want to go to homicide or do you want to go to intelligence? And I'd been in homicide already, right? And I was having and then I was having kids, my kids were younger, and I know what it entails, Zivian homicide, right? And so, and I had done it already. So I'm like, you know what? Because in Intel, uh it was special investigations, right? So it was intelligence, uh, special investigations and vice, right? So I'm like, oh, that's pretty cool. So I did that. So I went to Intel that worked out of the chief's office, and I did I did that uh for a few years. Uh, then I got promoted to captain. That was kind of the equivalent of the commander role here. Uh, and you know, as a captain, worked in patrol, worked in uh investigations. Uh, I had the the person side of investigations, and then uh went back to patrol. And that was the time when the chief comes into my office one day, one day, and he goes, Hey, I want you to be a chief here, but you got to get your degree.

unknown: 12:49

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 12:50

So I think I was like 40 years old or so and went back to school, right? And waking up early and uh uh, you know, having kids, waking up early like at 430. As I tell people now, I go, Hey, listen, man, it was this would have been much easier to have done when I was 21.

SPEAKER_00: 13:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 13:04

Um, but uh, but got my degree later in life, right? Which ended up being huge. Um, but there's some things happened when I was a captain rank that this is where like I did things a little different, right? I'll never forget my chief calls me one day and he goes, Hey, listen, I want to send you to the FBI Academy.

SPEAKER_00: 13:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 13:23

And I pause there and I go, Well, I'm coaching my kids in little league, right? I I can't go, right? So he tries to talk me into it, but I say, I can't go. Um, and so later on that year, he asks me again, um, want to send you to the FBI Academy. I know you couldn't go last time, but this time I'm coaching my kids in pop warner football. And I go, I can't go. Yeah. I I'm I'm I'm not I'm not doing that, right? And I say this because this is no fault for anybody that's gone to the FBI Academy for personal growth and things of that nature, right? Um, but I don't have a gold brick on my desk. Um, I've never gone to the FBI Academy, and God bless the people that do, um, just wasn't the right time for me. And but back in those days, and I don't know how it is now, because we can do this later, because I really can give three shits if someone goes to an FBI academy or not, when I promote them, I that's not what I'm looking for. We can get into that. Because that's not what happened to me, right? But um, but it's interesting because I talk about this all the time, and I go, like, that's usually a career ender when you say no twice to go to the FBI Academy. And I'm like, you know what? I thought to myself, man, if I if my career ends at the San Jose Police Department as a captain, man, that's been a great career, and I'm good with it.

SPEAKER_00: 14:36

But you know, obviously you couldn't sleep at night. You you took care of your family.

SPEAKER_02: 14:40

Oh, yeah. I mean, my kids, I mean, I listen, coaching my kids in in Little League and in Pop Warner, I coached them in everything until they got into high school was one of the best things ever, right? So I tell people all the time, I go, you know, I don't know exactly what the FBI Academy would have taught me to have been a better cop. Um, you know, but man, I remember every home run. Yeah. And I remember every touchdown. And I would have done, I would have made the same decision again, uh, even now. So didn't go, but obviously some people had faith in me, um, continued rising up through the ranks, um, ended up uh getting promoted to deputy chief, uh, then assistant chief. Um, and as a deputy chief, I oversaw investigations again. Uh, then I did admin, which I 100% needed. Um, I became the executive assistant. I'm glad you liked it. Well, but but listen, I'll tell you what, I had to learn. I mean, I had to get into that. I mean, particularly as I look back now, at least little, you gotta meet up, you gotta be in this job a mile wide and an inch deep, right? But you gotta know a little bit about everything. Right. And had I not had that experience, there's no way I would have been, right? And so, you know, was executive assistant chief, I think, in 2012. Um, I became the number two in San Jose in 2012, and then ultimately the chief there starting in 2016, right? And so I got there in a path that quite frankly, most chiefs don't get there that way, right? You you get your degrees and your doctorates and you're you're in you're in everything but you're in everything either but patrol or in administration roles. That's not me. That's not how I got there. So, you know, when I've gone around the country and talked to prospective chiefs and things of that nature, I'm like, man, there's there's more than one way to do it. Uh, but ultimately there's people that believed in me, right? There's people that opened the door for me and I owe them everything. And so um, that's how I got, um, at least at the chiefs level. Um, and it wasn't generally the usual path, I think, that most have taken. Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 16:42

So full disc first, there's uh there's one caveat that I was supposed to tell you about that I forgot at the beginning. I don't normally have this ridiculous mustache, just so you know. Normally full bearded out. Was it for Halloween? Uh I have a military ceremony that I have to go to at the end of this week. Okay. So um, I shaved my beard and I just thought of how ridiculous I probably look right now with this stupid mustache. So I want to make sure I got that caveat. So when oh, when when our people are watching this, I at least they know now why I have this creepy mustache. Um, I just had to get that out there. Uh second thing, you know, like anybody, any cop would do, I started reaching out to people that you'd been over. And one rare thing that I will tell you that I found out was nobody either from the street levels that I was friends with or a little higher up, um, nobody had anything bad to say. So that that's a good like me as a cop, like that's a good sign. If you've if you've either got nothing to say or really good things, that's all I care for. Like that's what I want. But if everybody's like, oh my god, he was horrible. But the most people that I talked to, they honestly said he never affected me. Like that's a good thing. So I wasn't really worried. So when I got to do this interview, I was like, cool, because because of the reputation you got coming in here, um, I knew you'd be open to some of these questions. So one of the questions through what you just told me that I really want to know, because I really got the vibe that you're a cops cop. You made it a different way. I didn't know that. What was the vibe like for a cops cop to step into that ivory tower area, and then you've got a historically speaking, most ivory towers they don't think like cops cops. They think of liability, bottom line, stuff like that all the time. What was it like for you to step into that role?

SPEAKER_02: 18:34

Well, I'll say, I mean, to the point you made, liability, bottom line, this and that and the other. That all plays a part in it. I'd be lying if it didn't. The part I guess the part that I bring that I hope other people bring too is that you also have to include that cop part in all that. So I guess I just like take the job, man. Like if I was sitting in the back room and the and what would I want the chief to say? Right? Like what would I what would I want the support to be? Um, you know, uh, you know, good, bad, or indifferent, man. Like I, you know, I've knocked down doors, I've interviewed homicide suspects that have killed children from me to you. I understand that life. Um I've run search warrants and I've been on perimeters and I remember that stuff, right? And it was, I mean, i it's part of who I am, right? And so it just plays an important role in how you lead, but your people gotta see you as one of them. Yeah, right. That's the biggest thing, I think. I think and I've worked for Chiefs that yeah, that guy's not like me.

SPEAKER_01: 19:38

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02: 19:38

Yeah. Um, and your people have to see you as one of them. Um, you know, as you might know, and this is part of it, doing this with you, but I, you know, Fridays are my Lincoln on leadership Fridays, right? Where, you know, I'll do admin during the day, and like in the afternoons, I'm gonna do things like this or visit units, or um, you know, like last week I rode out with the horses. Oh, even when we did the mounted unit. I did mounted. That's fun, ain't it? Mounted last week. Yeah, I love riding the horses, and I'm looking forward to the stock show when I'm in that parade and I had to start getting ready for it, right?

SPEAKER_00: 20:06

Yeah, a cowboy hat, right? Absolutely. I know Dallas for a while, they weren't wearing cowboy hats. Well, Dallas with the cowboy hats are trying to be like us. Let's just let's just let's just face it. They've always been trying to be like us, even when you were there, no offense.

SPEAKER_02: 20:18

But uh Well, listen, I will say I will say this, it's a good competition we have, but I'll say this, and I say this all the time the only reason I am here sitting next to you um is because of the men and women of the Dallas Police Department uh for the amazing work they did. So it's a friendly competition. Yeah, it is. I love those people.

SPEAKER_00: 20:33

I love those men and I would get no respect back at work if I didn't talk a little bit. No, I get it.

SPEAKER_02: 20:37

I completely get it, but I've always will be true that we'll have fun with it. But they know and I've said it and they're listening. I'm all here because of them. But um, you know, I think we just got to remember what it was like when we were cops, right? And uh and understanding that. Yeah, all that stuff plays a role, whether, you know, the community relationships, the accountability piece to it, right? The and everything that you mentioned, but never forgetting where you came from. Yeah. Um, and and I wear it. I mean, that's that's that's what I am. The best compliment I ever got. Uh I was doing a similar podcast, such as this, and I'll never forget Joe King gave me the best compliment I've ever got in my life, as he says at the end of the podcast, he goes, Hey, you know what, boss? You're an old street cop masquerading as a four-star chief.

SPEAKER_01: 21:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 21:20

And I'm not quite certain there's any chief in this country that would not think that that's the best compliment that they could ever get. Um, but it truly is the best compliment I ever got. Um, and uh, and so that's what I kind of bring to it. Um you know, no one, you know, I like to I like to think, listen, there's two things, and two things can be true. Um no one cares about their community more than I do, um, but no one wants to take a criminal to jail more than I do either. And those two turn those two things aren't mutually exclusive. Um and again, I I I hold officers accountable, but you'll also I love my officers. And um, you know, and and both things can be true, right? Those aren't mutually exclusive either. And so that's what I what I like to think I bring.

SPEAKER_00: 22:03

It's a breath of fresh air for a guy like me, for for other cops that I work with to hear stuff like that. Because traditionally in in the US, we only hear that from sheriffs because sheriffs are elected. So you're in a position that isn't elected. And it it's more risky for you. Even to talk this way is more risky for you. So respect for that. Um I like that a lot. Uh speaks volumes to your character.

SPEAKER_02: 22:27

And well, but I but again, I mean, I don't know what's you know, it's like when you say that. That's that's what's wrong. Yes, I'm that's what's right. There's the choir, brother. There's not there's not a neighborhood, and I say this all the time. You know, there's not a neighborhood, and I'm not an in the I'm not an office guy. I spend less time in my office than anything because I want to be out there, whether it's talking to the troops or going to the community and hearing from the community. And I've not been in one community meeting that's impacted by crime, uh, regardless of language spoken, racial makeup, or economic status, that I have ever heard the words we want to see less of you on our streets.

SPEAKER_01: 23:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 23:04

I I've never. So I say that confidently and I feel I can speak that way because that's I've I've always heard, yes, our community wants is going to hold us accountable. We need to hold ourselves accountable. There's no question about it. But they don't want us to go away and they want to feel safe and they want the criminal element taken off the street, but we have to do it in the right way.

SPEAKER_01: 23:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 23:24

There's nothing like again, that those terms are not mutually exclusive. Uh, and I think the rank and file, it resonates with rank and file, but it resonates with the community in the other way as well, where we're gonna do our jobs, we're gonna do it right.

SPEAKER_01: 23:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 23:36

Um, so again, I but I've been, I've done it, and I've seen it and I've heard it. Um, and so, and so that's why I feel I think more of us need to speak out just about the fact, like, hey, listen, yes, we need to take care of our community. We need to hold ourselves accountable. There's no question, we have to do everything the right way, right? We have to treat our community with respect, we have to do things procedurally just, but we also have to take the criminal element off the street. We have to enforce the law, we have to be out there invisible, we have to make sure our communities just don't see us in a moment of crisis. Um, we have to do all those things, but we have to do our jobs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 27:08

Yep. Agreed. Okay, so let's go back. You you did homicide, you did a bunch of stuff. One of the things I'm very interested in is your fugitive apprehension stuff. That's always been a dream of something of mine. I just I never got it, never got to do it. Uh and I love I love all the guys that have ever been a part of our fugitive teams that I've worked with. They've just to me, that was cream of the crop, guys. Like they're out there dealing with the most dangerous of dangers all day long. And their professionalism, their ability to de-conflict, just seeing how they operate and you see cars and the way that they find targets and stuff like that. Like, to me, that that that is the the fun side of policing. I always looked at it like that way. So, in your background, what what was your top two uh focuses? Was was fugitive one of those? Was I just trying to figure out what your top two specialties were? Um can you pull that mic slightly? Just push it away this way. Yeah, there you go. So it's just in front of you.

SPEAKER_02: 28:08

Um God, there's so many things, so many good times that we had. I mean, honestly, I'm not just saying this, but I honestly the time in community affairs was great. But I, you know, from a from a cop's perspective, from a catching the crook perspective, yeah, fugitive apprehension was very satisfying. There's no question about it. So was so was homicide.

SPEAKER_00: 28:23

Okay. So in the fugitive side of things, um, one, what was your training? What would it what did it take to get into that? In what what year are we talking? Uh, we're talking late 90s. Okay, so late 90s, give a little perspective, what era we're talking about. So body cams. I'm old. Well, body cams weren't a thing. Um, when you talk to some of these patrol guys, you just like you you sit there and you think of how you policed, and you're like, you don't know a time that a body cam didn't exist, you don't know a time a drone didn't exist, and you don't know a time a uh a real-time crime center didn't exist. Right, right, right. That's a totally different style of policing when I first started. Yes. And for you, especially. Uh so in Fugitive, what was the training like in the late 90s to get into that?

SPEAKER_02: 29:08

Well, it was interesting because we did fugitive out of SWAT, right? So it was like a collateral assignment.

SPEAKER_00: 29:13

So we would Oh, that's what you meant when you said we thought you did SWAT and Fugitive.

SPEAKER_02: 29:17

No, we got into fusion apprehension out of out of SWAT, right? So we had two, we had we did SWAT in our collateral assignment when we weren't getting call-outs and serving warrants, was what we would do on a day-to-day basis would be would be fusive apprehension.

SPEAKER_00: 29:30

So you did both fun things.

SPEAKER_02: 29:31

Yeah, no, so we had the the tactical training from the SWAT perspective. And then honestly, my sergeant uh at the time, under retiring as the captain, and I'll give him credit, his name, Jeff Smith, right? And uh he came up with the idea that he wanted us to start doing this on our uh when we weren't doing the stuff. So we turned into future apprehension. And so we started doing all sorts of training. Um, you know, we had our team leaders went down to LAPD uh and saw what SIS did down there from an undercover capacity and things of that nature. Uh we started doing car jam. We we started doing training with car, we called them car jams back uh back in the late 90s. Um, and really going through the bureaus and really getting what who was the worst of the worst in the city. And we would start working with them, right? And uh and start and start apprehending them. And so uh we would do, you know, tails, train tail training, right? We put an academy together uh that went through a whole you know week of just uh, you know, of uh of you know, you know, uh surveillance and things of that nature. Um, but the tactical side was always there, right? So it was kind of cool. You always got the SWAT training. It was kind of cool where, you know, regardless who we were going after, we're a SWAT team. So like we have the training to, okay, he's in the house. All right, let's go. I mean, so it was kind of both. We wouldn't, we were in plain clothes, but we'd throw in our stuff after. Um, and so man, it was just a it was, but I'll tell you what, uh probably the busiest I've ever been in my life, right? Because unfortunately, fortunately or not, right? You know, we can have a late night um and we start, let's say we finish off relatively early, catching the first guy or something, and you know, it was we we get a line on a guy at seven, right? Well, once you start, you can't you don't stop. Yeah, right. So that's gonna be that was a that'd be a long, long, long night, right? So uh, but yeah, you know, had we had our jugs in the back of the car, we have Gatorade bottle. That's my favorite.

SPEAKER_03: 31:28

Well, we probably it was yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 31:30

We had we had this, we were, we were ready to go, right? And so that was that was a lot of fun. I mean, you know, from the training that we go in through now, so different back then because we started from scratch, right? It was an idea that my sergeant had at the time. He's like, I think we should do this. And so that's what we started doing.

SPEAKER_00: 31:44

Dang, okay, and so I like the innovation. That's it, because that's like how the real-time crime center. Like we kind of talked offline about that. We one of the ways that we got kicked off with a real-time crime center before we knew what we had was an injured zero tolerance guy, uh Dalton Webb. He was injured, and he's like, I still want to be useful to my team. So he's a radio and a laptop, and he was gathering intel for his team. You know, it's a 10-person team that's down to nine, but they're more productive with him behind the scenes doing what we call now real-time crime center behind the scenes. So it seems like the same thing with you guys. A SWAT team is holy cow, you just made that unit. Because who knows how many I I don't know, San Jose. Right. I don't I don't know how often call-outs were happening in San Jose.

SPEAKER_02: 32:29

They didn't, they didn't happen all the time, right? And so what originally what in that unit was called merge. Um, and it was one of those things, again, that I don't necessarily I don't know why they just didn't call it SWAT. Now, you know, to to be in merge, to have been in merge is is now that's that's the name. So we're very proud of that name. But it's one of those things where you sit back and mobile emergency response group and equipment. Because I am assuming at some point someone Thought SWAT was too scary. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00: 32:57

Maybe you know, we know it's California.

SPEAKER_02: 33:01

We know that those things happen. You're gonna get a lot of shit for that. I've gotten a lot of shit for it. We didn't get into that. I mean, when I first got to Dallas, they were saying don't California are DPD. That was a rallying cry when I got there. But um uh but uh but it was it's called merge, right? And that's the SWAT team. And uh and so originally what they would do, what we would do is we would be in we would go out in unmarked cars and we would go throughout the city just being self-initiating things, right? But then the sergeant goes, listen, this isn't productive, right? If why don't we do something that's not being done, right? The bureau has a myriad of warrants after, and there's really no one going after them, right? So why not us start doing something that's more effective? Yeah. And you know how it is at first, we're like, I don't want to do that, right? Because it's a lot more fun to just go out throughout the city and do whatever I want. And so my sergeant, I'll remember Jeff going, yeah, I know, I get that's a lot more fun, but it's not as efficient. So this is not necessarily about having fun. Let's have fun doing something that actually matters.

SPEAKER_01: 34:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 34:03

Um, and so we looking back, you know, we went, I don't say we were kicking and screaming that this is a new mission, but when you get reined in, yeah, you don't get to do whatever you want. Yeah, this is much more efficient, but I we we really took pride in that.

SPEAKER_00: 34:16

And cops don't like change, so we know that.

SPEAKER_02: 34:18

Well, we they don't like two things. We don't like two things cop change and the way things are. Those are the those are the two things that we don't like, right? We don't like change and the way things are, right?

SPEAKER_00: 34:28

We know that we'll like to complain about it. We do, but the moment you start changing stuff to fix that problem, then we're like, that ain't gonna work.

SPEAKER_02: 34:34

Yeah, that's not gonna work. That'll never work. No, so uh anyway. So that was a that was a great time. And now actually, born out of that, San Jose then actually created their own fugitive unit.

SPEAKER_00: 34:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 34:46

So separate from SWAT. Okay, right.

SPEAKER_00: 34:49

Did it did it create the need? You showed it.

SPEAKER_02: 34:50

It created Yes, it created a need. So they actually born out of that was a a unit that specifically became that, and we were the originators of it. So it's pretty cool that uh that we we started that, right? And uh, it was fun being part of that. Great group of guys. Um, man, the camaraderie uh was awesome.

SPEAKER_00: 35:10

And and what's cool to see something like that from um kind of a bigger picture police perspective is that wasn't an idea born out of a chief. That was an idea born out of the guys out there doing it, and then having a chief that gets behind it and says, You're right, it's working, keep doing it, like having that support.

SPEAKER_02: 35:28

Exactly right. Um, and I always say this, you know, the sergeant position is the most important position in the police department.

SPEAKER_00: 35:32

Right jumping ahead of me because I was gonna get to that later on.

SPEAKER_02: 35:34

Well, I've talked to the truth. I mean, I don't, I wear four stars. My position isn't the most important. The chief the sergeant's position is, and this was a sergeant that had this idea that now his legacy is that it was so important, it shows so much value that it's in permanently ingrained, right? Yep. Um, or it got ingrained. Um, and so yeah, I mean, and as a chief now, that's when you get most excited, man. When ideas come from the bottom up, yeah, that's that's the best place to be, right?

SPEAKER_00: 36:04

And that was just a as a great example. Yeah. That's awesome. Man, that's fun. Okay, so that was your first fave. What was your second favorite? Was it the community stuff? Well, community was in there, right?

SPEAKER_02: 36:14

But when you're talking about putting the community stuff, really was the glue that put me all together. Okay. That's what I'll say. Shaped you. Yeah. Um, but homicide.

SPEAKER_00: 36:23

Homicide.

SPEAKER_02: 36:24

You know, um, you know, I wasn't there as long as most guys, you know, and gals are in now forever. We had a rotation policy in San Jose, so you couldn't be in there too that long anywhere. Really?

SPEAKER_00: 36:34

How long do you think?

SPEAKER_02: 36:36

I believe at the time it was uh five years.

SPEAKER_00: 36:38

Okay. Because I think that's the minimum time you should give.

SPEAKER_02: 36:41

I I don't disagree. I don't disagree. I I don't know, I I I I don't agree that you should have just been in there that long. Or in a lot of units, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 36:50

That one that's one that in particular, it j man, when you talk to some of these seasoned homicide guys and you sit back and you're like, this would take me a lifetime to get to that level. 100%. And and I think at five years in homicide, unless you're just really squared away, I'm not gonna say I was that's why I never went to homicide. It I it probably interests every person that ever becomes a detective because it's the cream of the crop when it comes to that. Uh but I think if you are a true if you're truly looking out for the community for the victims, you got to be true to yourself. Like I knew I was gonna promote and I knew that I couldn't give them the time that they deserve. So I that's why I never went for it.

SPEAKER_02: 37:30

So I'm just curious, like having a time limit, like how's your view on that now versus when you Oh no, I don't I if I no, I would I I don't think five years was enough. And I'll be honest with you, can look at it every unit, right? I mean, and and again, I mean, so uh so but yeah, but the the the cases that were worked um in the interviews that I had to do, um, that you know I still remember to this day, uh, you know, those those still sit right. And it was very it was fulfilling. I mean, it's uh obviously a horrible situation that you're there um having to do what you have to do. Uh, but to get, you know, to be able to make a case um and to talk to people, to have them talk to you, right? Um, that's pretty awesome. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00: 38:14

Especially when they're free to go. Like if you can get somebody to talk to you and they're free to go, like that's a technique I learned from homicide, guys. I'm like, what do you mean they're free to go? Like you suspect this person of possibly committing a homicide and they and you're gonna let them go? And they're like, Yeah, we're having a consensual encounter right now. It's like, I don't understand. I don't get that technique. I didn't get it. So, you know, you start watching how they do things and you're like, oh, you start putting it all together. Like, wow, okay, that's really smart. That's why you do this job and I don't. Now, for you, that was this in the 90s again?

SPEAKER_02: 38:45

This was, let's see, we're talking at this point, no, this is in the early 2000s.

SPEAKER_00: 38:50

What was the training like for that? Was the read technique like a common practice? Were they making you guys go through certain interviews?

SPEAKER_02: 38:56

No, they didn't force you to do that. There were interview and interrogation classes that you would go to. Okay. Um, you know, uh to get ready for it. And generally speaking, you didn't, you had to have some other things, right? So as an example, merge, having been in merge, um was a was a was a unit that was highly, highly thought of. Okay. Um you had the prestige behind. You had a little look. So you had some seasoning to to do that. Um, and you know, you're already talking to people, you're already interviewing people, you're having some techniques and understanding things. And then yeah, there's classes that you can go to with regards to it. But you know, honestly, um uh, you know, once you're there, I mean, and that's the the expectation is the people that were getting into those units have had some experience doing something, right? And I know that's another opportunity though. I got a shot. Listen, I'm not gonna lie to you and tell you there were some people when I got into homicide that goes, How did you got to homicide and you weren't an investigator before? But I had there was a lieutenant that brought me to homicide by the name of Glenn McCordy, who's passed he passed away. That was one of the best cops in that San Jose had. And he had been in merge before as well. And so he gave me a chance. And so, like I've just I've been, and so I made the most of my chances, right? And so um gave me an opportunity, and again, it was a very fulfilling time there.

SPEAKER_00: 40:17

Yeah, I can tell you in the training that I've had with interrogation stuff, and that was one of my favorite things in my career that I didn't expect was interrogating and interviewing. My successor, I would I will tell you to this day, unless they shut me down with asking for a lawyer immediately, I would at least get om I was batting a thousand. I would at least get some sort of omission to put my cases together. And out of all the training that I got, the streets are what and being able to talk to people, having the social skills to talk to people, that's what I relied on. It had nothing to do a lot of the time with the with the quote unquote, you know, professional training with read technique and all that stuff. I would take maybe a little piece of those and use them in my own tool belt, but for the most part, it was just talking to people. And just like you said, like two of the best people I've ever watched work, um Tom Geerling and uh Matt McMeans, they're people that uh you'll you'll might get to know. Um their ability to get confessions or omission or any of that, watching those guys work without any professional training as far as interrogation goes inspired me. I'm like, oh my god, okay. So I I don't need to rely on that stuff. I can still be myself and be highly successful in what I'm doing. Just kind of the point of what you're saying is yeah, you may not have gone through the normal channels, but if it works, it works. And if somebody can recognize what you're doing is being successful, like that, that's what it takes. That's why having a sergeant is so key that pays attention to what's going on, right? But having the confidence in your ability. So that's that's good to hear. Uh did you enjoy the interrogation side of things?

SPEAKER_02: 41:55

Yeah, no, I very much so. Yeah, it's um I really enjoyed it. I mean, and again, you know, if you look at the amazing work that our homicide unit does, I mean, we've got to have like almost a hundred straight, like yeah, 90% plus or what have you. I mean, they're amazing.

SPEAKER_01: 42:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 42:08

Um, and uh particularly with the all the hoops that you have to jump through, you know, on different things now. Um, you know, I it it's fascinating. Um, I'm so proud of them. I mean, but I but I, you know, I I know how hard they work, right? I know what they have to do. Um, and so I'm just it's it's it's it's it's fantastic what what our guys are doing and gals are doing.

SPEAKER_00: 42:30

Agreed. Okay. So we've we've hit on two two highlights of your career that that you were really into. And I I like bringing that up because I think it helps people see when they see the glint in your eye when you start talking about it, because they can, you know, cops are bullshit detectives. Like just me talking, you got me pumped up talking about it. That's like I want to get in the interrogation side again because I had fun doing that as a cop. And uh seeing seeing you do that, our guys are gonna they're gonna resonate with that a lot, I think. So I want to move into you going from doing the fun stuff, jumping all the way up to Chief. Um now you did chief jobs in San Jose, San Jose, Dallas, Dallas, and now here. Yes. Um culturally speaking, because we touched on it. You're coming from California. I have never lived in California, I can only assume, and that's where you probably got the whole feedback and don't California or Texas and all that stuff. Yeah, I've heard that a few times. Yes, yes, yes. So coming in and being probably one of the only people that can talk from experience, the culture of policing from California to Dallas to Fort Worth, what are you seeing huge differences? Well, not with the men and women. So policing state.

SPEAKER_02: 43:43

So policing policing's policing, right? And I'll say to the men and women of the San Jose Police Department, the only reason I got a chance is Dallas was because of them. Wasn't because of me, it was because of them. Um, and the policing cops are cops, man. Um, they want they want to feel supported, they want to be able to do their jobs, they're looking at you to put them in the best positions to succeed, right? And so that wasn't necessarily it. It was, I always talk about the biggest difference is support. Um, you know, I I've said this before, you know, there's a lot of people that support law enforcement in California. Uh, but at the time where I was there and making decisions to leave, there were people that would support law enforcement that are always afraid of standing up and saying they supported law enforcement for fear of some tart some sort of retaliation or something. Um, getting to Texas, completely different. Um, the support that we get here, and I know when you're all from here, you think this is the way it is everywhere. Um, it is not. It's not.

SPEAKER_00: 44:35

I came from Michigan.

SPEAKER_02: 44:36

Okay, it's not, right? And I tell this as a community, and particularly here in Fort Worth, we're even more, even more unique. Because I think we're in the most supportive state in the country when it comes to public safety. And I truly believe that we're in the most supportive city, in the most supportive state, major city in the most supportive state in the state of Texas. And uh so support is the biggest, the biggest difference, right? Um, you know, I, you know, we did our recruiting video where you have our city manager and our mayor saying they support the blue and back the blue. I mean, honestly, you take a step back. I don't, you don't see that in a lot of places. And they're not doing it because they're being forced to. They truly, really believe in what they're saying. So it really comes back to the biggest differences have been is the support. You know, I had an opportunity when I was in Dallas. Uh, one of my officers was getting the uh Star Texas Award. And Governor Abbott uh gave an amazing speech. You know, I've had the opportunity to meet the governor a few times, but Governor Abbott, the first that was one of the first times I had heard Governor Abbott. So he gives the amazing speech of his support for law enforcement, right? And as my officers walking on stage to get the award, I was able to say hi to the governor, right? And so I said, Governor, you know, thank you for those words. I have never heard a governor uh speak like that to law enforcement, so thank you. So he looks at me and he goes, Where are you from? And that's the point when I tell this story that everyone starts laughing. Yeah. And I go, well, sir, I'm from California. And he goes, Yeah, we're a little different here.

SPEAKER_01: 46:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 46:03

And I'm like, Yes, yes, sir, we are very, very different here. But little things, right? I get to Texas and probably in the time I was a chief in San Jose, and I was a chief in San Jose for for five almost five years, right? I didn't get invited one time to come to the to the Capitol to speak on major law enforcement issues, right? They would make decisions without really bringing major chiefs in. And I got, and I when I got to Texas, as I sit here today, um, I can't even count how many times I've been invited to Austin to speak on something or testify on something because they care. Now, it may not turn out the way we want, but the mere fact to ask us and invite us in it's something that also I don't think happens everywhere, right? Um so uh, you know, in any event, um that's that at least those are my experiences. Okay. And so I I would just say the biggest difference is support.

SPEAKER_00: 46:56

Okay. Um, right, I agree with you. I can't um I grew up in Flint, Michigan. Okay. I know you're not aware of that, but uh cops are not very well liked up there. Um police support is very rare. Um and when I separated from active duty uh military, I became a cop up in Michigan, Saginaw, Michigan. And it was the same reason I got out. There just was no support. You know, you're asking for a millage, they get denied. There's just all this different stuff that uh not seeing the support. And I applied all over the nation to places that I thought were to be really good. I just happened to get hired down here first. It was the one the fastest route to get out of that. And that has been one of the biggest surprises to me as well. You knew it was here, but until you feel it and see it. When you sit down at a restaurant and all of a sudden somebody, you know, you go to pay and it's already been paid for, you don't even know who paid for it. Like I never experienced that up there. Nothing like that. So seeing that and hearing it uh down here firsthand, exactly what you're saying. So I think you and I coming from outside perspectives really help with the officers that I call purists. They only know this. Like you don't know how good you have it.

SPEAKER_02: 48:07

I see that. I that's it's almost cliche.

SPEAKER_00: 48:09

I see that you don't know how good you have it. You know, I and I I the military really saved my life um in a way where I Flint for me was like the matrix. I didn't know I was in it until I escaped it. And then you see successful cities and you know, things booming and all that stuff. Texas is where base camp is or boot camp is at. So coming down to Texas and seeing everything growing and all of that, I was I never experienced that of a flint. Everything had always been closing, continuous closing. GM shops, AC, um for all the stuff always constantly closing. So when I come down here and I see that, that's one of the things I'm like, dude, shut up. You're complaining that you gotta go to training. You're complaining about training. You know what I trained in? I was in a dang abandoned building. It was condemned building. If we got lucky, I got so much training thrown at me here. I like that's such a good problem to have. And so giving perspective, outside perspective like that. So I was just curious, uh, coming from California, if you've seen that type of difference, and since you s have that community side to you, seeing that how well has the community reached out to you just in the short time? Because how long have you been down here?

SPEAKER_02: 49:24

I think we're I think we just passed a month, a month, a little bit over a month.

SPEAKER_00: 49:27

Okay, so in that, like what's that community outreach been like? Oh, it's been nonstop uh and positive.

SPEAKER_02: 49:33

Uh, you know, uh, you know, so going out to the community, knowing the community, going out to neighborhoods, speaking at events. Um, as a matter of fact, I I'm speaking at an event tomorrow morning, uh, and then I'm going to speak at uh at a church service on Sunday morning. Um again, like I'm you know, I'm out there and you have to be. Um and so it's been great. Um, you know, the and this is why I I can truly tell you our communities don't want us to go away. I don't care what the outside noise is. Like they want us to do our jobs right, but they want us there. Yeah. Um and you wouldn't know that unless you're out there, right? And so it's been great, and it's an incredibly important part of the job. Um, and I enjoy doing it.

SPEAKER_00: 50:11

That's good because as a as a as a street level cop, one of the things that always concerns me is you'll get a loud minority. And if you have a if you have a chief that isn't getting out there and hearing what the real voices are, how do you distinguish between is this a real problem? Is this like is this outside pressure a real problem, or is this just a loud minority? I'm just curious how you go through that process as a chief.

SPEAKER_02: 50:38

Well, first and foremost, we are oftentimes our own worst enemy. Oh okay. Uh we do we've done some some terrible things that we have to own up for. Yeah. First, first things first. Um, and so you really have to make sure that you, you know, when things are occurring, doing your research to figure things out, right? As to what the temperature is. Uh, but certainly um, you know, cops hearing that is important because, you know, they're not they're not insulated from the media any other way than anyone else. And when you're going call to call to call, you may not understand, man, they love you. I have a little bit more time when I go out into the community. I'll never forget going into neighborhoods. And I did this when I was in Dallas. I mean, I went to a neighborhood uh in South Central in Dallas. And whether I was talking to uh a Spanish-speaking uh ice cream vendor or an African-American beauty salon owner, uh, both of them. As I'm walking out, I'll never forget walking out of the beauty salon one day after I was meeting with the business owner. And she goes, Chief, don't forget about us down here. Right. And, you know, this comes at a time, right, when I was getting media questions like, Chief, how are you going to help mend community police relationships and the distrust and this and that and the other? And I said, Man, you guys are making a really big issue with this, um, which rightly so, at times we deserve it. But come to community meetings with me and you'll hear my communities let me have it if I'm not providing them police resources. And in some cases, accuse the department of putting police resources in other more affluent areas instead of areas of need. Um, and as not a single one takes me up on it. Right. But when I'm able to come back, I remember telling that story about the don't forget about us down here, chief, to my command staff at one of our ComStat meetings because I felt it's important to go, your community loves you. All right. I know you may not all have the time to go out and see that. And for your patrol officers that are going call to call to call, there's some, there's, there's, they need to know that that that they love you. They need to know that they want you here. And you need to hear that, right? Um, and so, and so that's that that's one of the most important reasons why I want to get out there. Yeah. So that I can honestly come and say, your community loves you. Like here in Fort Worth, our community loves you all. They love you all. Um, and uh again, you're gonna have you're gonna have a portion that you're never gonna make happy, right? We have to just stay, look in the mirror and stay on a path that we know we're doing the right thing and doing it for the right reasons.

SPEAKER_00: 53:05

Yeah, I agree. Um yeah, that pumps me up that you're that way. Because that's uh that that's that's a concern. That is a thing that we will hear. Um you know, officer gets shown at a bad angle, and we know it's legit. We've got the option to see the body cam footage and all that stuff, and but you got this loud minority going after it, and then all of a sudden you see the officer gets in trouble, and we're like, dang, like well, listen, uh we need to hold ourselves accountable when we're wrong.

SPEAKER_02: 53:38

Yes, absolutely all stand right up there and say we're wrong.

SPEAKER_00: 53:41

Because with public support comes that ownage from guys like us. I don't want to lose that.

SPEAKER_02: 53:47

I know I have such a good thing going. It is a gift that we don't want to lose that.

SPEAKER_00: 53:51

I'm not gonna let you ruin that for me. No, so if you jack up as a cop in the street, I'm with you. I'm 100% on accountability.

SPEAKER_02: 53:57

But and I've said this before, though, when we're right, we're right, regardless of what the outside noise is, right? So, and and again, um we know that we're we're this is an imperfect profession.

SPEAKER_01: 54:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 54:08

We're gonna make mistakes and we've made some atrocious mistakes, and we know that we need to own up to that and then get better. But when we're right, also we have to also be strong enough to say, hey, listen, we we broke this down or what have you, and we have to be loud about it.

SPEAKER_01: 54:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 54:20

You know, I had a reporter ask me recently why we put the video out of the two officers saving that baby, right? This week. And I said, um, you know, she said, you know, it's um, I don't know, she's something to the effect of it's it's really moved people and X, Y, and Z. And I said, uh, I said, well, I think with all due respect, you answered your own question. I said, too often we concentrate on the negative and maybe not to this extent, but officers are doing, maybe not to this extent, we're saving literally saving a baby's life, but other amazing things that you never hear that happens day in, in and day out. Um, you know, the hundreds of thousands of contacts that we make a year that don't end up in a force situation or that don't end up in a negative interaction, we have to be loud about that. Yes. Um celebrate means, yeah. We equally, but when we're wrong, we also have to have and to make sure credibility is there that we're able to admit when we're wrong, yep, but also, hey, when we do right, we're gonna put that out as well.

SPEAKER_00: 55:18

Yes, I agree. Um, that's that's one of the messages I've been trying to push out is I'm gonna show the bad, but it's always going to be educational based. How can we improve? How can because you always debrief no matter what it is. So the way I look at things is can we improve from this encounter? Here's where I see it being wrong, here's where I see it could improve, but it's always about education, trying to improve things. And that video in particular, um, shout out to Bounce, by the way, is my boy. Yeah. Um, uh, it was just it was awesome work by both of them. Um but seeing that, you may have just inspired a new cop. You may have just turned somebody's stone heart and softened it just a little bit towards policing and go, okay, there's there's two good ones. Like they because they don't get to see that. Because we, like you said, what does the media focus in on? They focus in on the negative side of things. Why? Because if it bleeds, it leads and all that crap. And I do not think we push hard enough to show the daily victories.

SPEAKER_02: 56:14

Those officers need so much credit. I'll tell you one of the I know you don't know this, I just found out this morning. So uh Attorney General Bondi uh called through her staff and wants to meet the officers.

SPEAKER_00: 56:29

Oh, that's great.

SPEAKER_02: 56:29

Um they're going out to DC in a couple weeks to meet the general. To meet the attorney general. I mean, like, I and I know they want us all to go, I'm still trying to see if I can make it or not. I would love to meet the attorney general, but it's more important for those officers than for that sergeant.

SPEAKER_00: 56:49

And real quick, Sheith, the people that were involved with that, I know one was Bounds and the other one was Sergeant Nichols. Sergeant Nichols, yes. Okay, yeah, awesome. Shout out Nichols. Um, I never worked with him personally, but I did work with Bounds.

SPEAKER_02: 57:00

So Well, you know, you always hear that statement like uh this doesn't uh this doesn't build character, it reveals it. Right. Right. That that didn't build character, that revealed it. Yes, right? That incident of those two those two officers. So that was pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_00: 57:16

But the fact that the AG wants to meet them, I can tell you, I already know Bounds. He's gonna be like, okay, okay, I'll go. Like he's that's not him. He's not well no, they both.

SPEAKER_02: 57:24

I'm glad they're out there. Listen, at the end of the day, man, it's not every day that the attorney general calls and wants to meet you personally or fly you out to DC. So I'm so proud of those guys, and I'm happy to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00: 57:33

I'm just gonna keep saying Bounds' name because this is gonna be seen in the department, and he's gonna be like, shut up, Levine, stop saying my name. But no, he's a good guy. Um, pretty cool to see that. Um, what were we talking about to even get into that? Uh oh, things that officers do daily. Great. And I I think that that is a campaign that people could be that departments should be copying all over the place. Now, that was an extreme, extreme version. Like that doesn't get to happen every day. But like you were saying, like the little things. I've watching an officer help a kid fix his bike. Um Texas, it's really popular to go put AC units in and help people get AC units and stuff like that. Help with groceries, all of those little things that we see daily that since the media is not going to share it, the department should be sharing it. That's just my feeling. All departments should be.

SPEAKER_02: 58:19

No, but I but I will say, honestly, I've had I've had the luxury and really the good fortune of working really well with the media that they have put great things out.

SPEAKER_01: 58:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 58:27

Um, I know like uh Scoop, I I wanted to do something to highlight the work Homicide did, particularly after the week we had. So Scoop did uh highlight highlight the homicide unit and what they do every single day, right? Very cool. Um, and so I think having those relationships with media um also helpful because you can put it out, but then they they also are looking for good stories, right? Right. So when we have one, we'll put now this one was a little bit different. We like to be our own voice, right? Which was great. Um, but uh, but that that that works too. I mean, there's definitely good things that the media is doing for us with regards to putting good stories out.

SPEAKER_00: 58:57

Okay. Um now, as far as coming into this role, one of the things that each chief does something different, even new sergeants do something different. My style, uh, I just got to the unit that I'm at maybe four months ago, maybe maybe a little longer, but I'm with a bunch of seasoned guys. Like I'm not working with uh, you know, I'm not out in the field with rookie officers anymore. I'm dealing with dudes that have more time on the department than me. So for me to come in, I'm sit back, observe, see if I need to do anything. What is your style? Because you're new, you this is your first month. How how are you coming into this? Are you honestly my gun's a blazing guy?

SPEAKER_02: 59:40

Yeah, no, kinda. Yeah, I I'm building the plane as it flies, right? I I'm not a I'm not a I'm not a wait, I don't have a hundred day plan, right? Like I like if if I if if I think we can better the department like in recruiting on day two, then we need to do that on day two, not wait like a hundred days to do it, right? If there's a way to build morale on day five, then do that. We're not gonna wait a hundred days to do it. So, no, as things show up, um, you know, certainly we'll we'll do that. I mean, I don't know about guns ablazing necessarily, because I want to, I, I do want to be uh, you know, cognizant of culture and other things. Uh, and again, great relationship uh working with Lloyd uh and the union uh with regards to you know making big decisions or what have you. I don't want to make decisions without having them be a stakeholder. I've never operated that way. Um and so no, as we see things, we, we, we, we try to move on and fix them. And it's one of, I guess one of the one of the dynamics of having done this twice before in major cities is that, you know, I I know that the expectation also, right? Yeah, from those that brought me here isn't that this person needs six months or a year to really get his feet underneath him because he's a brand new chief. Right. So, so I'm cognizant of that as well, that that uh that it's a balance between, you know, looking, watching, which I'm trying to, which I'm doing, uh, and really taking action when I think things need to change for the better.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:02

Gotcha. I was curious. I was like, well, I wonder if he's gonna come in and just start making waves saying, hey, I'm here, or if you're more of a sit back, wait, or have have you done a bunch of homework prior to getting here?

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:14

Yeah, I absolutely. You know, I watched, listen again, uh, I watched Fort Worth from afar when I was in Dallas. Right. I mean, obviously, you know, knew what things were going on. I was uh very good friends with Neil. Um, we would talk all the time. I mean, I knew a lot about the department before I even, you know, got here, right? Yeah. Um, even when I was working in Dallas and Neil and I would have conversations all the time uh about things that are occurring, right? I mean, obviously every department has their own culture. Um, you know, we'd be mindful to certainly appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:46

Um, but uh, but no, absolutely. I you know did everything I could to get here. At the end of the day, again, cops are cops. Uh, and you just have to, you know, there's only one way to learn, and that's the way to just get out there and understand things, right? Whether it be the politics or the community. Um, and and really that's that's how I learn.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:01

Okay. So you've been here. Uh you're you're a gun's a blazing guy. What's uh what are you looking at right now that you think you're ready to either change or add or anything like that big that the officers may want to know?

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:14

Well, I would just say this. Um, my job again is to put our officers in the best place for them to use their amazing talents and succeed, right? We are gonna bring criminologists in uh to look to look at the city to come up with a criminological crime plan, right? That's gonna be evaluated constantly. That's something big. One of the things that we need to get better at, uh, and we are, we're we're we're moving the needle, is our data, uh, our technology, but particularly as it pertains to data. Um, making sure that we're drilling down in the right places, uh, making sure that uh from an accountability perspective of the plans that we do have, do we have the right people in the right places at the right times? Um, but all that comes from data, right? And being data driven, having having uh uh as close to real-time data to make real-time decisions, not weak year old weak data to make decisions today. Uh and so looking at that, how do we strengthen that? Uh how do we uh refine how we're pulling data? Um, technology, you know, again, looking at things technologically that can make the jobs of our cops easier.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:15

Is there any particular tech uh technology that you're excited about looking at or anything like that that other officers may need to look into?

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:23

I'm really well I'm I'm excited about the technology we're hopefully about to get with with with uh peregrine.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:29

Oh the peregrine stuff okay I was curious if there's certain pieces of techniques But no not yet.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:32

I mean again like just thinking of different things like man is there a way to be able to you know you know we we have to really start looking um always in the backdrop of being CGIS compliant but we really start gotta we have we really have to start looking at AI and how AI is going to kind of commingle with law enforcement because I know that can make our jobs easier but you also have to make sure that things are CGIS compliant and proper. But there I think it's an exciting time because of that technology to do things that would that would have taken me hours to do that could take an yeah that just simple things on a day-to-day basis that our patrol officers have to do that that we have to be able to help them with the tech that's there. And so looking at those different ways um but uh but really the biggest thing is really from a from a crime plan perspective from putting the officers in the best places for them to succeed um is is one of the things that we're really looking at.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:23

Okay interesting I like that I like I like any time that you can take uh you're not just chasing a a hot spot on a map you're actually putting the data behind this this is now we're getting into the micro this is why I'm we will we will be into the micro yes yes and that is man that's that's uh intelligence based policing not just where I feel that this spot is to be exactly yes exactly yeah and you'll get that the community you know they they they feel sometimes oh this is a problem area and you look you're like well it's not really yeah I know it feels that way but here's what the data showing and and when you talk to those Intel units they'll tell you too right they're they're tracking a lot of that stuff so that that's exciting I I'm glad you're excited about that because that's the nerd side of me I I like the tech side of things and really as you can see get get into it I've got a whole nerd set up in here uh Star Wars is kind of my theme yeah yeah that's my that's my thing yeah people think that it's red and blue because of policing it's not light side dark side okay oh well all right I'm seeing that you got a lightsaber lightsaber yeah wow I mean I'm into Star Wars too but not to this extent oh yeah okay yeah yeah I'm big into it super like are you uh are you more with the older ones or the newer ones all of them all of them all of them all of them even the bad ones the bad ones there are some bad ones there are some bad ones don't don't get me started um but yeah I uh that makes that makes me pretty pumped up that you're you're into that um anything anything else that little tidbits you can give us as far as where you're you're excited about that you're moving towards I don't want to get too deep into no I'll just get general I mean one of the things is that you know I I'm really looking at ways to to give back to patrol um and so really and I've had these conversations with Lloyd with Lloyd I don't think we're I don't think we're there yet I tried guys he did try he's not the first I'm sure he won't be the last but um looking at ways to motive not not necessarily just to make patrol's lives easier yeah um listen I've been in special I've spent more time in special operations than I did in patrol in my career but patrol is the number the patrol is the heart right and and I truly believe that and I know a lot of times you hear the cliche patrol is the backbone of a department but seldom do chiefs actually do anything to back that up and so I want to change that that to say it and do it um you know so uh you know we're looking at ways to integrate the corporal rank into patrol uh somehow thank you uh looking at that um we're gonna get uh we're gonna get uh the new radios in patrol and not necessarily in the academy uh so that officers that are actually in the field can have some of the newer radios that we're gonna try to implement that sometime in the spring because there's a funding issue uh to get at least the the FTOs. Can we update the tracking with those? Because it think about this from a real-time crime perspective. When they're out there if we can see them on the map because a lot of times let's say the body cam gets knocked off or they're separated from their patrol car, yeah I think it'd be highly beneficial if at least their sergeant in the field or the real-time crime center can track like a Blue Force track.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:27

If we can do that absolutely we can do that. It's there the capability is there. Well if it's there I mean I I would prefer we do that um but I'm trying guys I'm asking well I'll say it from you know from obviously I don't know how we we would disagree with that. I mean how amazing that would be to have that capability to do that. But uh but yeah anyway but at the end of the day is looking at patrol to to really yeah you know when you say they're the backbone I want them to feel that they are right and so those are kind of where my my my plans are obviously rebuilding the department they're doing well on recruiting uh understanding that oh recruiting's going well recruiting's going well I haven't heard about recruiting in a while so I was just yeah recruiting's going well that's good um I think we have like 50 some odd that start um Monday uh and I think on this last that's gonna start sometime in the first of the year hopefully we get into the 70s with regards to to that academy class uh we should be at full staffing by the end of next year. Um when I say full staffing I say it in quotes um because we need more than 1906 or whatever our authorized staffing level is. Yeah. And uh and so hopefully going from there as the city continues to grow uh and recognizing that our our specialized units that do an amazing job, right? And the role is to assist patrol and if they're you know they're doing exactly that they need to be doing that then then I sleep well making sure that their units uh are fully staffed is to the extent that we can little by little but understanding that the majority of these kids coming out of the Academy and FTO program are going to patrol. We need to have our patrol numbers up um and so uh that's a that's a point of emphasis for me. Um and so as I'm looking at things to do generally speaking they they revolve around really the morale building morale and making sure that when I say they're important I do things to make them feel they're important.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:07

That's good. Yeah they're gonna love that because I think I think the city's roughly similar size to Baltimore. I think that's what they compare it to a lot of times. And Baltimore's like 3500 cops or that's what they're allotted for. So that that makes sense if you can jump those numbers from 1900 that would be huge well and I don't think there's a lot of reservation.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:27

I think everyone understands within the city that we're gonna need to grow. Yeah as the city grows and we continue to annex areas of the city we have to start planning for it. Yeah right and uh you know uh you know it's funny uh when I heard uh mayor uh Moncrief uh former mayor moncrieve speak at an event um and he said when he was mayor I think he said something like Fort Worth was like the 23rd largest city in the country right and what two mayors after mayor price and now with uh mayor Parker like now we're like the tenth largest tenth or 11th largest city in the country right and that's just going to continue to go particularly as we continue to annex areas. So as we are looking at the development of the city and as it grows and we also have to make sure that that development goes with the growth of a department and so um I I definitely see us having a conversation once we get to 1900 right um that we should be there by the end of next year that that's when we really have to start having the conversation okay we need to be at 23 200 yeah right and as the city continues to grow we have to grow.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:28

Yeah all right chief so uh one other thing um use of force always is a hot topic with patrol and we know how it goes confidence in your training confidence in your leadership is what makes or break uh how uses of force goes uh I I used to be a use of force instructor um control tactics instructor and stuff stuff like that and I what I've always noticed is that the more confident that we are in our training the more confident we are in our leadership having our back the the quicker faster we end up handling a use of force in a proper way um but not everything's black and white every once in a while we'll get a use of force that's like it's like on the fence you're like I could see it kind of going this way I could see it kind of going that way. Officers are always wondering like how does our chief how does the chief think through these processes like what is what is how do you start breaking down when you have an officer that gets involved in a use of force that makes it to you that makes it to me.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:31

I mean you know I guess you know obviously understanding first and foremost force is not a choreographed dance. You know I remember in my academy they tossed talked the the the Bob Koga techniques and things of that nature. That's how old I go back to the techniques they taught, right? And when someone doesn't want to go to jail um it's not a choreographed dance. So I come in I guess already recognizing that right um and you know obviously the report writing is incredibly important uh ensuring you're justifying what you're doing every step of the way um also you know uh the body cam video obviously is incredibly important and I disse and I if it gets to me I would dissect that right um you know the attitudes and things of that nature of both individuals right I use the Graham versus Connor um I mean I'm a Graham versus Connor guy I mean that is what we're judged by in the law of the land right um and and so I really use use that technique um also you know what why why what what was the initial contact as to what occurred right um and so all those things are going through my head but literally breaking down the body cam and again you know that body cam to your point I mean it's say it has saved it has saved more than it's hurt. Yeah I agree and that piece of equipment has helped me be able to justify you know actions because I see what I see regardless of what um the outside noise is and so I I I come in on things with with I guess if you say an open mind recognizing number one that you know force some force sometimes has to be used on people that don't want to go to jail. If they don't want to go to jail in and and they want to fight you or don't want to go I mean force is part of what we do. But was the it I guess was the force appropriate um and those type of things and not every issue is the same. Yeah right and so again but I recognize not the choreograph dance so really dissecting the report and looking at the uh at the um you know the reasoning behind it and what the video looks like and I don't mean looks like from oh my God because it's not it's gonna be chaos.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:45

I mean what the video looks like with regards to the type of force the application of the force um force never looks good.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:52

It does it's never gonna look good.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:54

But if you go into it knowing it never looks good and you're looking for the the elements that either make it justified or not justified that's how I I come into those situations.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:05

Okay. Fair enough. Good the um it's it it is it's always especially when you get a new chief uh that's one of the first things that these guys they because they want to do their job but damn like you got a got a got a chief coming out from California. Now luckily for you you had some Dallas time. So they got they got something to go off of and and I like I said from some of the Dallas guys that I talked to nothing bad. Nothing nothing where they were like I didn't feel like I couldn't do my job.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:34

No I I again and particularly they just you know when it comes to the four situations there's always difficult decisions that a chief has to make right but honestly again and it goes the same thing. When we're wrong we have to say we're wrong. But when we're right and this what it comes back when I talk about when we're wrong we're wrong we're right we're right that that we talked previously we're talking about the most polarizing issue and that's the force issue. That that's what we get held accountable more for anything else right um but it's important to really take a look at it with a with a you know with a a fresh look with an open mind when you are when you're really dissecting it. And again I can't give you a specific answer as to how I view force other than you know I look at it recognizing and understanding that it I'm not going to be shocked by what I see, whether it's justified or not because it's chaotic.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:19

Um and already having that in my brain as I look as the force is applicated and things of that nature is how I would render a decision and make a decision on it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:27

Yeah. And it I think it I don't think anybody that hears me asking that question is expecting a clean answer because you can't give one unless we're sitting here watching a video. Yeah I mean exactly it but hearing you go through your steps and what you're thinking I think it does put minds at ease. We're like okay so he he's he's a regular dude. Like there like he gets it like you you've been in some knockdown drag outs I'm assuming in your career. Yes. Especially policing in the early 90s uh and I don't know if all the movies are true but California see Northern California especially seemed to have some big criminal issues going on at least in all the early 90s movies that we had watched it was it was California's changed quite a bit were you watch was the movie Colors like one of your favorite movies? Um with Pac-Man remember colors is a good one it is a good one yeah it has some cheesy parts but it's a good one.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:17

But as far as learning the gangs and all that stuff back in the day I yeah but the the best movie I think what is it end of watch end of always okay so you're end of watch my guy the end of watch I'll be honest with you right so I've always said this end of watch watching the banter watching the interaction I said whatever technical they they had a cop be that technical advice yes honestly to me I tell but I hate the ending the ending kills me and then when Southland that was another good I didn't see that I think that was out of California the best movie and I heard there's coming a part two the best movie of my time will always be Heat. Oh yes Michael Mann that that the best crime drama of my time anyway will be that was uh I heard there's a part two and uh Pacino De Niro Val Kilmer yeah yeah yeah oh man it was that was awesome that was that was great that was such a great movie when they sit down and they talk at the diner and they're talking about there'll come a time when yeah when I'm on the other side and he's like I won't hesitate.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:15

I'm like oh my God so gangster yeah that's cool that's cool um and then just personally like uh you you get we kind of foreshadowed on this earlier you said sergeants are the backbone yeah and I'm a hundred percent behind that not because I'm a sergeant now but this was prior to get getting into that spot every time I see we'll go we'll go micro anytime I see a unit fail or succeed it's always a good or bad sergeant behind it it's not the officers you can only do as well as you're led and that sergeant's that conduit between upper leadership and what's going on on the ground they're the last line and then everybody else sits in an office for the most part there's certain ones that like Robin Krauss I don't think that guy's ever sat fully behind a desk um but you you get some outliers like that but I what is your view right now for the sergeants and how do you how do you manage sergeants from your level? Like what what do you what's your outlook for sergeants?

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:16

Well I mean my outlook for sergeants is for them to know that you know from my perspective I respect the role I mean I would tell every sergeant the same thing I tell you that the most important rank in the department they're where the rubber rubber meets the road right that they're where policy meets practice. And knowing that with that respect though comes with great responsibility right my expectation is you supervise. You don't over supervise but you actively supervise um because you know we have to we I needed we when I was 21 years old I needed good supervision. Yeah all right I needed a good sergeant. I wasn't ready to be a cop at 21 like when well I was if I'm being honest I just I don't think I was I needed I needed someone to guide me and show me right and these are our sergeants need to recognize how important they are and with that importance comes that responsibility to be there. Yep you got to learn how to be a sergeant too um I would like to see uh more time as a corporal before you're a sergeant yep um I think I think uh you know I I think I just think you need to be you need to have a little bit more uh to be able to be a sergeant right um and sergeants need to be willing to mentor well I was gonna get to that yeah no no but you're 100% right we need to have and and again looking through this what what is our mentorship program do we have that or do we just say hey you're promoted at the promotional ceremony go out right on Monday you meet your team yeah right what are we doing is there you know so what are we doing to prepare them properly um you know if an obviously your admin goes through the roof yeah uh from officer corporal to sergeant um from injury reports and accident reports and you know blue teams all that stuff right so what are what are we doing to train them right um because knowledge is power and what I mean by that whether you're whether you're speaking to a crowd of 10,000 or whether you're doing a duty as a sergeant the more knowledgeable you are the better you will be yes right of just knowing those things right um the more knowledgeable you are about a particular topic you can talk all day crowd of 10,000 and do it confidently. And the same thing goes everywhere down the down the rank structure, right? And so really listening to our sergeants um is important. You know, as a matter of fact I know we were we're we're working on uh you know updating the pursuit policy as an example right but one of the things we did right um is we brought a group of sergeants in to have a conversation with them about and make them stakeholders make them feel that they're part of the decision making process now we're gonna we necessarily gonna do that every single time but on this particular issue we had a particular issue that I said listen bring the sergeants in and hear from them. Yeah right I haven't been a sergeant since well a long time so uh and so really empowering them yeah um you know and trusting them um you know are some of the messages that I would give them for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 1:21:05

Yeah I one of the things that historically now I'm military uh some will make fun of me because I'm Air Force so it's quasi military. We'll give them that. Um and but military we the one thing that military will do in in any branch is from day one you are being trained and mentored to handle the person's job that's ahead of you. And I think policing is only just now catching up to that. So for sergeants and when I'm you know hopefully some sergeants that listen to this that that's one of the things that I recommend. Like even me right now I'm a sergeant but I have a senior sergeant that I work with and he's mentoring me. And I think it's awesome because he's got so much more experience. So I'm but he's prior military too. So he understands that role of always trying to get the person that's going to take over your job because eventually I'm gonna take his spot you know he's in the drop he doesn't have super long so that is one of the things I look at and you not being you weren't military prior correct I was in the reserves oh you was reserves earlier yeah oh no shit yeah for who? Uh army okay you didn't get too high on your ass fab that's cool that's cool. Uh sorry it's a little ball busting and the National Guard but yeah okay that well you did bust a little well a lot of times the army will go it's cool Air Force is our little sister you're welcome for your branch because we wouldn't be here without the army um if for those that don't know historically the Air Force actually was the Army Air Force and then we branched off onto our own. So uh but where was I going with that I went down a rabbit hole um oh mentoring um so in policing one of the things that I hope the sergeants out there listening for is that it's your job if we if we do the corporal role it's gonna be even bigger that you you help mentor the corporals without just making them do your job. Like because I I could see that being a thing where they're like all right handle the blue team like no you gotta you gotta help them learn how to do your position so when that time comes right they they're they're ready they're set for success. So um no that's really cool. I'm really excited about the corporal side of things but Chief that's really all I got I know you got time constraints and whatnot um just to end it like what do you like to do for fun? What can these guys where can these guys buy you a beer? I'm just kidding oh geez I would like to well again I said this before I was uh I was a Dallas Cowboy fan uh before I spoke English okay I would make fun of you but I'm a Lions fan okay so you can see my guys are doing much better than we are right now.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:29

We've never won a Super Bowl you know I like for you know for fun um you know I like to get in the gym uh I like to go to good dinners um yeah you know uh and watch sports right I love love watching football the college and and pro. Okay so football guy you know when you go to the gym now are you like a hit guy or are you uh you lifting heavy weights like I don't know about heavy weights but I'm I'm in the gym I see this guy uh I'll be Alec for those ones I see I I see the this guy in the mornings I I get up at five every morning I do my cardio yeah uh he does hot yoga hurts and then I do my cardio then I go to the gym uh and uh take Sundays off I enjoy doing that uh I enjoy going to games I enjoy sporting events I enjoy visiting uh uh my cut my kids and my daughter lives here but my uh one of my sons lives in California the other one lives in Kansas I like and I have a grandson you're a grandpa no I'm a grandpa look like a grandpa yeah well thank you but yeah I'm looking forward to visiting him in a couple weeks and seeing my little guy heck yeah um and so again and I and I'll be honest with you man I tell you some people tell me I'm nuts sometimes but like I like to go out on patrol right like I I enjoy doing that I think that's awesome even after a a 70 hour work week um okay so what do you you go out to patrol there's gonna be officers that hear this what's your advice for them if they're the unlucky sucker that has to have the cheap ride with them we're gonna have fun okay that's what I would say we're just we're gonna have fun we're gonna have fun yeah that's what we would do again um we're gonna have a good time uh and uh I love I love going with out with cops and seeing how things are man and how it's funny how things have changed and how some things haven't changed. Right. Right I went to uh you know I went on patrol in East and you know in the middle of the night the entire team we went to uh uh a Takeri uh uh truck that was there a taco truck that was there oh yeah and was it the one on Rosedale I can't remember where it was that was a good one off of Air's in Rosedale but anyway we had we had dinner on the hood of a car man heck yeah and I'm like and I remember I tweeted our ex whatever you call it ex it tweeted it whatever the heck you want to call it twittered um it was again that was just brought me back to like 92 man it was like so how some things some things have changed other things happen the camaraderie man and the it was that's a good side of town for it oh it was yeah they were close at the time they were they were but you know things have changed and obviously you know I do want to mention just how important wellness is to me.

SPEAKER_00: 1:25:52

I was just gonna I guess so you work out what you're telling me chief is that there's no excuse to not get in the gym once in a while.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:58

No honestly there's no excuse um you know there's no excuse not to get in the gym but uh for mental wellness right for our officers right and you know I just met with AWA and our three program the other day just about what they're doing and the partnership that we have and make sure that our cops are mentally fit and they know the tools that you know and things like that. So that's important. But yeah those are the things that I like to do for fun. You know like you know this weekend I got to work tomorrow morning and then I got to work Sunday morning but in between I'll try to I'll try to relax a little bit.

SPEAKER_00: 1:26:25

It might be some fun tonight so just so you know. Well it's Halloween I've just Halloween I might yeah I might just chill yeah tonight. So um I would not be surprised if you didn't get a phone call. So it's don't put that out in the universe bro would you want me to say the opposite though I would rather you not say anything. What is wrong with you putting that out in the universe all right chief I'm gonna let you get back to your job. I really appreciate you taking the time to do this um and I'm gonna say it on the camera like bro you are a cops cop like I love it. Uh again I like to consider myself a human bullshit detector I look for one thing the the glint in the eye when they talk about the job if I can see that I know it's true. So really appreciate your time um I wish you nothing but success now that you're here. Really glad to have you and that's all I got. Thank you sir.

SPEAKER_02: 1:27:11

All right thank you thanks for having me appreciate you brother