Enough To Detain

A car sits at a gas pump a little too long and suddenly it is surrounded. That single moment raises the question everyone argues about online: was this a smart proactive police stop, or an unlawful detention that should never happen in the first place? We walk through the clip step by step and explain why the “how we got here” matters as much as what officers find after the fact. 

We get into loitering laws, the role of a business complaint, and the possible use of an MOU between police and local businesses. Then we tackle the biggest practical issue: boxing a vehicle in. If a reasonable person would not feel free to leave, it is not “just a conversation,” and officers need reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime. We also explain “fruit of the poisonous tree,” why suppression hearings can wipe out otherwise solid arrests, and how editing and incomplete context can confuse the public while still creating legal risk for officers. 

From there, we zoom out into the bigger picture of constitutional policing and trust. We share what proactive policing looks like when it is intelligence led, how we think officers should communicate detention and ID requests more clearly, and why ego can be the fastest way to turn a minor moment into a bad arrest. We also talk training: Constitution basics, emotional control, life experience, and why grappling and Brazilian jiu-jitsu can reduce injuries and lower-force outcomes. We even touch on today’s surveillance tools, including real-time crime centers, license plate readers, and drones, and why best practices and checks and balances matter. 

If you care about police body camera breakdowns, the Fourth Amendment, and what “good stops” look like in the real world, hit subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave us a review with your take: where is the line between proactive policing and overreach?

Transcript

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Disclaimer And Ground Rules

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Hey everybody, welcome to Sergeant Eric Levine. Before we get started, here's a quick disclaimer. The views and opinions you're about to hear are those of the hosts and guests alone. They don't represent any police department, agency, sponsor, or employer. Two cops, one donut isn't responsible for anything said by guests or for any videos, clips, or content shown during the live stream. This show is intended for adult audiences only. We cover real incidents, we show graphic and sometimes disturbing footage, and we don't shy away from strong language or adult conversations. There may or may not also be alcohol involved. Viewer discretion is strongly advised. Everything you hear or see on the show is for entertainment and educational purposes. It is not legal advice and it's not tactical instruction. And it shouldn't be used for such. By continuing to watch, you're telling us that you understand, you accept all this. All right, now let's get into it. Alright,

Vacation Recap And Live Setup

SPEAKER_05 0:53

welcome back to Cops One Donut. I am your host, Sergeant Eric Levine. And as you can see, if you are new to the show, you're going to record as the second cop. I am two cops. I am a military cop, and I am a civilian cop. So I just got back from vacation. I went on a cruise with the fam. And so that is why you did not see me on the live last uh Sunday. And I got back and I had a really good video the day I got back up. And uh I see Craig's in the house, my mom's out there, what up? Ket or Kevin from Boston, what up, Boston Mass. Uh Dead Leg said he'll probably be on here to just I just told the guys uh in the talent chat, if you will. I said, hey, I'm just gonna do an impromptu live. So feel free to join on. It does not appear that my TikTok is connecting.

SPEAKER_04 1:48

For some reason, I try to get TikTok on there too, because I like all of my options going. Look, it says it's streaming, but I'm not seeing at the moment on that page.

SPEAKER_05 2:02

So bear with me while I work out the case. Oh, there it is. I just needed to refresh. Looks like it is up and running over on the TikToks as well. So, with that said, if you are new, the main place to talk, the whole point of why we do these live streams, we use body cam breakdowns and we talk about police videos and stuff like that, is to have dialogue. This does not work if it's just me and cop splaining shit, and nobody wants to hear a cop cop explain stuff. Um if you are new, I am a current police officer. Um I'm a sergeant, actually, uh, in a major city. Um, probably one of the top ten largest cities in the nation, and I still do the job. So it's a different perspective. It's somebody who's currently in the space and understands the space. And I don't have the perspective of a street cop anymore, because I haven't been a street cop in a little bit, but I'm still a police officer. So uh I try to, you know, you just gotta own up what you it's like anything. You you start to lose touch the longer you're not doing a particular job. So, like for me, I'm not out there on the streets anymore, like a street patrol officer is. They're the ones that have the greatest perspective for what's going on on the ground. Um, I think I might have a close second because I'm my whole job now is to overwatch and help the officers on the street, and I get to actually see what's going on because I'm looking through their body camera and I'm while it's happening a lot. So I work in what's called a real-time crime center. I can see through their dash cam and I can see through drones and I can see through city cameras and all those things. So I can see through the tech side of things, but that's neither here nor there. I'm just trying to give people time to log in because this is impromptu. I don't normally do a live stream on a Friday, especially a Friday. This is prime time for you guys, and you know, you got done with work, you want to unwind, you're probably getting ready to go out for the weekend or going camping or doing something with your family. So I don't anticipate a whole lot of people on tonight, and which is fine. But I had a video come up and uh Pin King. What's uh Pinking's things we need, we need angry cops at some point. Um well you depends on what you mean by angry. There's things that make me angry, um, but I don't necessarily want to be angry. Oh, here's Deadlight. Decided to jump on. Sub Big Up.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

I know your audio is messed up. We're not audio's messed up? Yep, you're not coming from your correct mic.

SPEAKER_05 4:39

Oh shit. Oh, you're right. I'm coming through the I'm glad somebody told me.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

See?

SPEAKER_05 4:46

Let me see here.

SPEAKER_02 4:47

You go on vacation for a couple days and you think you can come back and run this stuff. Did you know me and Alan? We did this for almost four hours. We did one breakdown, it was three minutes long.

SPEAKER_05 5:00

Okay, how's my mic now?

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Crispy. Oh Howard Sterling got nothing on you.

SPEAKER_05 5:07

That's what I'm talking about. But these kids today, I don't know about Howard Stern. Right. Pin King, he gave uh three bucks in the super chat. So thank you guys. Anytime you do donate money towards uh what we're doing, it goes directly into the show. So I got you guys to know that. And it definitely put your comment ahead of everybody else's. So um, I'm gonna be like Anchor Man and Ron Burgundy, and I'm just going to read it exactly as it says, unless it's racist. Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Oh I was gonna say I might start super chatting here tonight if we're gonna start verbating things.

SPEAKER_05 5:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, he's saying we need angry cops, the channel, not you. Okay, I see my bad. I know who you're talking about now.

SPEAKER_04 5:45

Yeah, I would love to get him on.

SPEAKER_05 5:47

I actually I actually could probably get networked to him. I got some friends.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

Yeah, I was gonna say we got friends that were just down there, yeah, this past weekend. Yeah, yep. Could probably get connected to him.

SPEAKER_05 5:59

Good old Anthony. Yep, I am uh drinking some Yellow Rose mash IPA. So now that my cruise is over with, I'm back to having some holy sweet tea. Authentic Chinese sweet tea.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

The finest of Chinese sweet teas. Everything that she makes, therefore, becomes Chinese. There you go. So I I have authentic Chinese sandwiches and fruit of a chips and pizza and all kinds of other cool Chinese stuff that nobody else gets.

SPEAKER_05 6:31

Fair enough. Hey, so I speak of the devil. I did get a lot of good feedback. Uh, somebody say they want Rich in here. Absolutely. Come on, bring him on, Badge 502. Oh, I did I not put it up there. Uh Badge 502's got the hookup for sure. Um, I keep trying to link up. I tried to link up with Badge tonight. I was gonna do his podcast. He's been asking me to do his live stream. He's trying to use his live stream numbers up so he can uh I think get monetized or or do something. He's got to get so many watch hours because it's his new channel. And um, so I was trying to help him do that, and we just have not been able to link up. Either I'm working or he's at work right now. He's he's doing his dispatch thing. So if you guys are not familiar with badge 502, make sure you go over to his channel uh and check him out. Funny, funny friend of ours, Anthony Christian. Hilarious. Um I've learned a lot about what not to put in my body for him. Yes, uh, he is a medic, um T guy, and he is a dispatcher. So he's on the um the different side of the house when it comes to the first responder world. So uh and he gets to see and deal with all the nasty stuff that asshole cops like me are like, you know what? Maybe this is a medical call, and then we sound like a medical call to me. Sounds like a medical call to me. Passed out drunk uh with his wiener hanging out, and he smells disgusting. Ah medical emergency. I I think in the back of my car. Yeah, fell and hit his head. So we're gonna have to put him put him in the put him in the bus. Sorry, badge 502. You signed up for it, buddy.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

That's kind of like that's the the that's the rookie, not the rookie trick. That's a veteran trick. It is they puke, puke, pooped, or peed themselves. They're back into my car.

SPEAKER_05 8:25

So again, if you are tuning in and you're on our TikTok or you're on our Instagram, we just have those up as a formality. We don't really chat and interact with you on Instagram, we don't really chat and interact with you too much on TikTok because there's not nearly enough people on there, and we can't monitor all of that yet. We're not at that level. Um, so we we very highly encourage you to go over to our YouTube channel. Same if you're on Facebook and stuff like that. Um, restream will allow the chat to kind of go to all of those, but for some reason on Facebook, we can't see you talking to us. So again, please go to our YouTube channel, jump on the live over there.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

It's a weird thing, but tech. Yeah, all the tech into one thing, and we don't have Joe Rogan's Jamie. He was on vacation, yeah, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_05 9:16

And I, you know, I could be using OBS, but I don't want to run OBS by myself. It's really hard to do.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

So you can't afford to fly me down there every weekend yet.

SPEAKER_05 9:26

Yeah, and I can't I can't rely on Alan and Deadleg to be able to do that stuff, especially when I jump on and do impromptu shit like this.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

So um yeah, so that's why I look the way that I do, because I just picked my wife up from the bus and uh he said, Hey, we're gonna do a live. I was like, Shh, if I'm back by the time, so we're back. Craig said, Authentic Chinese lasagna. I like it. Absolutely, authentic Chinese Italian lasagna. I love it. Um, so technicality is the best kind of right.

Why This Clip Matters Tonight

SPEAKER_05 10:00

What I want to talk about today, deadleg, is the video I made today that was titled Enough to Detain. Now, what I found out was this clip, you know, is obviously there was some guys riding around with cops. I could it could have been live OP, uh whatever they call that. Is that what it's called? Live PD? Live PD?

SPEAKER_02 10:18

Yeah, what live PD or on patrol, or they've changed it a couple of things.

SPEAKER_05 10:21

Yeah, I think it's like on patrol live now or something to that effect. Um, you know, it was it was on the something like that. So uh I found out through the grapevine it was a YouTuber named Tommy G. I'm gonna actually share the channel right now to give them credit for what we're gonna talk about here later. Um and dude is super popular, he's got like 3.6 million subs. So do him a favor.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

Oh, wait, County. I just watched this earlier today.

SPEAKER_05 10:53

So he needs more people, so go sub and subscribe to that guy as well. Uh, full credit now that I know who did the video, uh, it's them. And um, so I'm going to stop sharing this for right now. And if you didn't see my reaction video, that's what I'm going to play next. I want people to see it, dead leg if you haven't seen it yet. Uh, you'll get a chance to see it right here. So this is what we're gonna discuss. I'm gonna let it play all the way through um so you guys know what I said, and then we can discuss what some of the comments were saying and things like that. I think I think it was a good, I think it's a good video to discuss. Um, and then I'll point out parts where I could be wrong. So I I definitely want to make sure I put that caveat out there that doesn't mean I'm right. I'm just telling you, after getting some of the information that I got, I still think I'm right. But we'll we'll keep going. So here

Playing The Enough To Detain Breakdown

SPEAKER_05 11:46

you go. Let me know if you can hear it, deadleg.

SPEAKER_02 11:48

Okay. It's Clayton in Georgia. I'm hearing some audio, but we're not good visual yet.

SPEAKER_05 12:00

Oh, I'm not sharing the screen, am I?

SPEAKER_02 12:05

We get rusty. That's why we do these impromptu lives, so like the regular lives. Isn't so bad.

SPEAKER_05 12:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

It's gotta work these problems out.

SPEAKER_05 12:13

I'm sitting here staring at you. I'm like, he's not hearing it yet. Oh, we gotta share the screen. I'm special. Okay. Now, let's see what's the best view. Um.

SPEAKER_04 12:34

I like this one, I think. You like that one?

SPEAKER_02 12:37

There's that one, or we could just do biggie size of the whole screen. But then pulling reactions later on is gonna be a little bit harder.

SPEAKER_04 12:45

Yeah. I'll just leave it like this for now. Okay. As I was all right, we're gonna play.

SPEAKER_05 12:52

Is it true that if you sit at the gas pump too long, cops now have the right to box you and detain you, and search you?

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Yeah. A lot of time sitting ahead of the gas station with the number one conducting the business again, we'll be gonna be sitting in the middle of it.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Let me tell them you have someone sitting in the right there, but it's not standing just a minute. A lot of time someone's just sitting there if you don't see them put in the business. This gold needs someone here. Did he just gonna get us? He did it. Okay, okay. They said he's just gonna get us.

SPEAKER_05 14:03

I had this video sent into me and my opinion was asked, what did I think about it? Now I'll start out by saying I appreciate the proactive policing. I do think that they were out there trying to stop some bad guy stuff. And some of the logic and reasoning was not bad, but it was lazy and it was rushed. So let me start out with the pro side that I see. Do I agree that sitting in a gas pump for a lengthy period of time can sometimes indicate a buy that's about to happen? Yeah, that is true. Some unknowns could be a high drug area. That gas station could be a problem that they're aware of, and that's why they were watching in the first place. So again, I think that's the pro side. But I'm gonna end it right there and go to the comm side. If a drug deal was about to go down, you need more than them just sitting there loitering. Start doing the basics. I heard them call out that he has a Carolina tag, but I didn't hear anybody run the actual tag. That's gonna be your first major indicator. Is there any criminal history showing drug trafficking or anything with drugs on that vehicle? And I understand you don't want to blow your cover, so let's go talk to the gas station attendant. You don't have to go up there, call. You would have found out pretty quick that that Gold Ultima had just got gasoline. Three, you're gonna talk about loitering and you didn't have a complaint from the private business that they were loitering. You just took it upon yourself to say they're loitering. It doesn't work that way. Four, you conducted a traffic stop and then pulled them out and did a search. You boxed them in. Any reasonable person's gonna say that they didn't feel like they were free to go. So you don't get to tell me that that wasn't a traffic stop. The words even came out of your mouth that you saw him park there for a while, and that's not a crime, but you went in to investigate. You just admitted you didn't even have the RAS to go up and do the detention. Officers, I'm not bashing you. I'm trying to help you improve. Take your time, build your RAS, see if a hand-to-hand occurs, go set up somewhere and watch. Do some intelligence background checks, check the license plate, call the gas attendant. If you don't have it, you don't have it. There's plenty of fish in the sea. Quit trying to show out because you have some camera crew with you and violate people's rights. Officers, we need to do better. You're watching D. All right. Stop sharing that.

Loitering Claims And MOU Questions

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Did you get to watch the whole video or did you just get to see that small one?

SPEAKER_05 15:45

So I watched the the whole thing. Um, and it turns out they had um some sort of uh and I don't want to show their whole video because then we get in this whole copyright mess and whatnot, but um in their video, they they have a uh operation that they're doing where they're actually watching that particular gas station and stuff like that. Um somebody brought up, I'm gonna we're gonna take it one by one on all the things that were said. So I told you guys all the reasons that I look at that when I saw it as a clip and why I thought it was bad. Um, now I do want to say, I again, I will reaffirm I like that they were doing proactive police work. I think proactive police work's cool. I think what that guy was doing is would bring suspicion to me. I why is the dude sitting there so long? Because I'm already watching that gas station for this particular reason. And but with that, I'm gonna wait. I'm gonna, you know, they obviously didn't see him drive up there because they said they didn't see him get gas, and the attendant said he did get gas. So when did they spot him? They must not have seen him driving. So the first thing I want to get into is the loitering. That was the reason for the initial stop is loitering. Now, deadleg, you tell me. I from my understanding of loitering, first you need a complainant. I can't say that you're loitering on behalf of a private business and say that you're loitering there. Now, where people pushed back on uh a couple people pushed back and they made a great point. There could have been an MOU that had been signed and agreed on with the businesses that stated that the police could do that. But even then, my understanding for MOUs when it comes to loitering has to be after hours. If the business is there and they're capable of making the call, they have to make that call not a cop because then it becomes biased. It has to be within certain parameters. Now, I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know. It could be different state to state. Um, I have seen them in Texas, and in Texas, that's why I'm leaning, I'm leaning back onto my experience with these. Is this if an MOU is signed, it has to meet those parameters. It has to be during the hours that the business is not open because they don't have a representative there, and that's when the cops can step in and say, Oh, they've already told us ahead of time, we've already got an MOU signed, nobody's supposed to be here at this time, so now we can start working the loitering and the the criminal trespassing and and stuff to that nature. So if the reason for initial contact based on what they said was loitering, okay, I would already say that we fruits of the poisonous tree, we didn't have grounds to do that. What do you think?

SPEAKER_02 18:45

I so let me start out by each state's different. We have 50 of them, and this one's in Georgia. So understanding that where you are and where you're listening to this at and where you're watching it at and where it actually happened could be three separate different things, and we're talking about a completely other thing. So, like you were saying, I'm gonna go ahead and I'm gonna let you guys know I'm gonna make an ass of myself because I'm gonna make uh several assumptions, okay? And I'm gonna I'm laying that out there all the line right ahead. Like I'm I'm letting you guys know that I'm making a guess, a guess based off of my training and experience, but it is literally just a guess that, like you're saying, that they have some MOU in place, that there's something going on because this unit that they're riding around with, this isn't patrol, they're not you know responding to calls for service and and things like that and traffic accidents.

SPEAKER_05 19:34

These guys are out there to be proactive looking for things, specialized unit for sure.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

So, and as they were talking about this one, and they go a little bit more into it in the further ones into the video, and I encourage you guys to go watch because it's a really good video. Because Tommy G even says, like, every one of these cars that you've stopped, and this is one of like five or six that they stopped in this video, he goes, every one of them, when you pull up to them, there's no way that you would have told me that you had anything with any one of these vehicles, and every person that they stopped and talked to, they pulled guns or drugs off of them. So there's a there like there's a reason why they're there, there's a reason why that they're what so I'm gonna go ahead and assume that there's probably because they're in one when you're watching that, you're seeing five or six marked patrol cars. How many unmarked patrol cars are usually out in these types of events? You're gonna have them out there because you can have them in an unmarked patrol car out there just running surveillance and they don't have to blow up their surveillance, they can just get on the radio and go, Hey, that camera over there has been at the pump before for like 15 minutes and they have not pumped any gas. You guys might want to go check that out. Yeah, I don't I'm not sure if they had any other information beforehand before they went up. I will say, just like you're saying, like what was presented leaves a lot of questions. Yes, a lot of those questions are answered with why how would this happen? Oh, there be a uh MOU, a memorandum of understanding that these local businesses have asked the sheriff's departments like, hey, we understand that we want to, you know, conduct business here. We want to sell gas and you know, knickknacks out of our gas station or whatever. That's all we want to do here. And if people are here using our gas station for anything more than that, we want we're paying our taxes for the sheriffs to come out here and enforce the laws. So they might have that because it seems like further on in the video, every one of these stops seems very similar. But as you go on in the video, they're the the lieutenants and the sergeants that are on the radio, they're they're saying all of the key legally words that a district attorney would want us hear in the affidavit for the for bringing on charges or for the affidavit to bring up warrants or for the reasonable article. Like, why how did you get there? Well, we were watching this vehicle and it was sitting there, then we went like they have to you have to be able to connect the dots, and like you were saying, that the fruits are the fruit of the poisonous tree. And for what people to understand, that means is if I don't Have a legal reason to do like to get to you in the first place. So, like, like I say, I see Eric walking down the street, and I don't have a legal reason that's to talk to him, but I start talking to him, and that turns into something that Eric's got a gun on him, and he's not supposed to have a gun because he's he's a convicted felon. But how else would I know that unless I had a reason to talk to him? If I had a reason to get his information, I have a reason. So unless you have all of these reasoning, everything beyond that becomes fruit of the poisonous tree. So no matter what, it's not admissible. Unless you can prove in court through other investigative means that you would have still figured out that he had a gun, that's the only way that's gonna be admissible. So these cases, especially with these very like these proactive cases, you gotta have your dots color, you know, dot i's dotted, t's crossed, all of that has to be there because if from jump street it's bad, then anything that comes from that. So let's say this stop turns into something where this guy wants to start talking. Like, hey, I'll I'll give up some people, I'll work with you guys. That becomes nothing. You have nothing to you can't go with anything off of that. So any further investigation that you would have had, it goes away. So all of the positive, positive interactions you would have with the community by getting narcotics or guns or violence off the streets becomes negated and it goes right back out there. And you're you've you've done nothing, you've you've squirreled and wasted a bunch of tax money and dollars and energy and resources to be right back to where you were. And now the bad guys know. So they're gonna sit there at the gas pumps and going, Yeah, I could stay here because these guys they ain't calling you. So if they ain't calling you, you don't have to talk to me. So why are you talking to me?

SPEAKER_05 23:39

Yep. Yep. So so them getting there, so the loitering is the obviously that is the crux of all of this. Um, and I just kind of looking at the comments and seeing what people were saying. So we're we're going off the loitering right now. So this was the reason for the initial contact. And um my point of this, where I'm trying to improve officers, because again, I don't want to discourage proactive police work. I like proactive police work, and that's where some of my, you know, hold the cops accountable crowd. We have a little bit of a rub there. And and I get it, I understand. Uh, you know, but for me, like I said, I want to catch bad guys, and I don't like cops that simply act like firefighters and just wait for calls to come out. I don't like that style of policing. Uh, I don't. Especially in a busy city. There, there's play, there's ways to do good police work and do it right. Now, like I said, their instincts were on, they weren't wrong. They end up finding weed, they end up finding um uh stuff that would be consistent with somebody that's dealing because they found a bunch of like individual bags and stuff like that. Um, and the guy's got a history. I think he had uh he had been convicted of robbery at one point, but that doesn't mean a drug history necessarily. So uh I that's where I want to say that their instincts they had some merit to it, but you have to build it up more. And we got to put our ducks in a row. Again, they were watching that spot for a reason. It has been a problem. That spot has caused some violence, caused some some major issues in the neighborhood. And the the community was behind it, so it wasn't just the cops are doing this, community was behind it, and that makes a difference. So that's why I didn't want, especially I don't want these officers to see that and think that I'm trying to bash them because I don't want to discourage proactive police work. I love it. I think it's a good thing, and I think they were out there trying to do good work. Um, I just think they got a little excited because they had a camera crew with them. Now that's a that's a speculation on my part, but that's just the way I feel on this one. So, with that said, we go into some of the other

Boxing In And Consensual Encounter Myth

SPEAKER_05 26:00

elements of what we had here. So if we're gonna go off a loitering, now we move in. And what do they do? They take two marked patrol cars and they pin this vehicle in in place or box it in. I shouldn't say pin because it didn't actually make physical contact, but they box this car in. I couldn't tell if they had their lights on, they definitely didn't have their pirate on. But this is where we go into reasonableness. You can say all day long, oh no, this was a consensual encounter. We were just going up to say hello. When you looked at that at any point as a reasonable person that's not a cop, would you think you were free to go? You were surrounded by a ton of uniformed cops. All at what if the car starts to drive away? Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

Then what do you then what are you gonna do? You don't have a reason for a traffic stop. So if they start to drive away, do you get into a pursuit? Do you try to stop? Do you cause an accident? Like, right? The the getting to it, you have to have it. And like Eric's saying, like if these they see this, like I'm gonna make the ass of myself, and I'll go ahead and assume that there's a lot more that because we understand from being content creators that there's a lot of from police work and the police side of things, there's a lot of stuff that's gonna get recorded on that stop that's boring, and no one wants to watch that, right? No, because no one cares, no one cares unless it's very interesting or something happens, or you use force, or there's a chase, or there's something like that. So I'm gonna assume that there is stuff that was cut out beforehand, and I'm gonna assume that there's some stuff that was edited out, and I'm gonna assume because at the end of the day, too, it's got still got to go to the district attorney, they gotta prefer charges, they got to charge, they have to go and see a judge. There's a lot of things, procedural things that happens after this. But if just getting there to begin with, I I I I get it, but I I think that they may, I'm gonna I'm gonna be an ass of myself again. I'm gonna assume that they have explained things a little bit more and things were edited out for time or for because it what was the way it was presented, there's there's more than enough there. Like I I got it, like but at the same time, there's probably a lot that was left on the editing floor. So I'll take one with a grain of salt, like but on the other side on the flip side of the coin, so not the cop side of it, on the you know, guy in the car or girl in the car. This is how this interaction should go. Yeah, they they had a conversation with each other, there was some disagreement back and forth, but uh like they went through the procedure. There was no use of there was no like force, there was no let's make you know big big thing out of things and all this stuff. But just I I hate to use it, just follow the instructions. But if you just on the side of the road at the gas station, at the hotel, at wherever the parking lot, that's that's not court, you're not in front of a judge and there's no jury there. So making a huge scene there or like thinking that it's gonna be over right then and there, yeah. Just okay, got yes, sir. Got it. Okay, put my hands behind my back, yes, sir. Okay, got it. I'll get a good attorney. Cool, thank you.

SPEAKER_05 29:20

Thank you. And and to this guy's credit, now he'd been through the system. So this this is another aspect of this that somebody that's been through the system when they get surrounded by cops are going to feel even more like they did not have uh that this was not a consensual encounter. Um, so with that said, I pulled up um loitering for the state of Texas. I know this isn't Texas, but I just I want to want you guys to understand where my brain works when I'm thinking about this stuff. Um, there is no universal rule that says loitering becomes illegal after 10, 20, or 30 minutes. Time alone normally is not enough. The prosecution must prove the conduct covered by specific statute or city ordinance, which we don't know. There could be a city ordinance, such as obstructing a sidewalk, soliciting prostitution, remaining somewhere for a prohibited purpose, or refusing to leave the property. Um and then it goes on to say, but what if the person bought something? Because I put that parameter in there. Said buying something is a strong evidence that the person had a legitimate reason to enter the business. It does not, however, give them the all unlimited right to remain afterwards. A business can generally revoke permission and tell a customer to leave under Texas criminal trespass law. The key issue usually is whether the person remained after receiving notice that the department or that the departure was required, not whether they stayed for a particular number of minutes. So that's even more into the driver's favor because he got gas. They went in there and proved he had gas. It could be argued that that stop or investigation should have ended right there. Because they went in and they confirmed with the clerk that yeah, that dude got gas. He's good. Um, you know, it it didn't help the driver that he's driving, you know, one of the top felony vehicle making models out there.

SPEAKER_06 31:11

That what you're talking about, that's not all drivers, but holy shit that doesn't happen. A lot of people out of Nissan Ultima. That doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

So for Georgia, uh, for Georgia code uh 16-11-36 as being in a place or manner not usual for law-abiding individuals under circumstances that would create a justifiable and reasonable concern for safety, unusual behavior, being somewhere acting in a way that a regular law-abiding people would not normally do, raising reasonable alarm or reasonable suspicious activities. Police may consider factors like running away upon seeing an officer, refusing to give identification, or trying to hide oneself as a reason as objection. But even then, by but just when you see a cop's if you walk away.

SPEAKER_05 32:01

Yeah, yeah, but that's that's not enough, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

And then the defense, you can beat the charge if you had a true reasonable explanation for your presence that would remove the officer's safety concern.

SPEAKER_05 32:12

Yeah, here's my receipt. Yeah, I mean, but again, because the manner in which they made that contact, the the boxing in, they ruined everything, even if they even if they would have gone up based on the loitering alone, which is fucking dumb to me. That is a stupid reason. Um, Trevor Bryant asked, just how long is too long at the pumps? There are other reasons they could have been waiting. Uh, what if the issue was the pumps were waiting for them to reset? Or the one that I've seen the most, people are doing scratch offs. Or somebody's in the store, somebody else. They're waiting. Go to the bathroom. Yeah, going to the bathroom. Yeah. And since they didn't see him pull up, because remember, they didn't see him get gas. Because they had to go in and ask the the guy if he had done anything. And he's like, Yeah, you got gas. So those are points to um to think of. I want to go to the comment section.

What Proactive Policing Should Look Like

SPEAKER_05 33:05

Ryan said, I'm curious what proactive policing on the streets means. How far do you go? It kind of sounds a little bit guilty until proven innocent. So um here's here's how I look at proactive policing, Ryan. I'll tell you how I did it personally. Um, let's say I'm just a street cop and I have my beat. What I do is I get with my crime analytics person and I say, all right, what's what issues am I having? Or I'm at a town hall meeting, or I get with my neighborhood patrol officer representative and I find out what the problems in the neighborhood have been. Um, particularly me, it seems like every beat I got, burglary of motor vehicle was a big thing. So I say, okay, now this is where the intelligence side goes into proactive policing. You can't just go out, and I'm with you, Ryan. It it the guilty until proven innocence when you just go out and you just start, you know, everything becomes a nail. You can't do it like that. I've got to be able to explain why I was where I was at, why I was doing what I was doing. So for me, we were having BMVs between 2 a.m. and 4 30 a.m. So from between 2 a.m. and 4 30 a.m., I went to the areas where we were having these BMVs. It was a residential neighborhood. It had a couple apartment complexes that budded up next to it. So with my training and experience, I was pretty sure our actors were probably coming out of the apartment complexes. So I waited until after two, and I started, I turned the car off and I got out on foot. And I started walking up and down the residential neighborhood, just listening. If I heard dogs start to bark like they're in a panic in a certain area, then I would walk that to that direction. Or I would get in my car, start it up because it was across the neighborhood. I'm not gonna get too far away from my vehicle. So and then I would go over. No, no, I ain't trying to run, son. Uh, so that's what I would do. And you know, you knew the areas in your if you knew your beat, I knew the areas where the the um streetlights were out or the the streets that didn't have streetlights. Those are gonna be prime picking targets. That's gonna be areas that people want to do that. And then if you were out on foot, I was looking for you because nobody is usually out on foot in a residential area at that time of night. So that's what I would do. I and I didn't just stop you because you're on foot. I would be, you wouldn't see me, you wouldn't hear me. I would just wait and walk and then look, and then sure enough, I see you pull a handle. And that's what they're doing. They're going pulling handles to see what's unlocked. They're not trying to break your windows, they're not trying to do any of that, they're just pulling handles, seeing what they can get away with. If the car opened easily, they get in there, they rummage through real quick, and then they're out. And that's what I would do. And that was one way of being proactive. I wasn't waiting for a call, I was out there actively hunting. So that's yeah, and and that was based on intelligence. And I didn't just stop people because they were in the area at that time of night on foot. Would it draw attention? Sure, it would draw attention. If I saw you, you know, jaywalk or whatever. Am I gonna make contact? Yep, I'm gonna make contact. I'm gonna find out. Like, does it make sense that this person's on foot over here? If they're smart, they don't just don't answer any questions, but it doesn't stop me from trying to ask questions. So that's pro that's proactive to me. Now, like you guys know, my specialty is property crime. So I I could talk property crime stuff all day. I did have a little experience with the dope game. Um, I got out of it fairly quickly just simply because I most of the time you're getting personal use, guys. I don't really have a problem with that. Um, I have a problem with people that commit crimes when they're high. Higher up. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, if you're committing crimes while you're high, well now we have an issue. You know, that makes sense. But a lot of these guys they're just getting possession charges. They're not anything else attached to that. You just you just cut one head off a snake for another one to pop up. It just it defeated me. I just I didn't I didn't like that, but it was very rewarding to get people's property back. And I love seeing the faces of hardworking people that you know uh I always use the lawn company examples because there's a lot of lawn companies down here and they do a really good job and they work their ass off to get all this steel equipment, uh, the brand steel. That's the because that's the best.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:28

Uh, and uh when their whole trailer gets freaking stolen, like that's their whole livelihood. And to get that back and see their faces after they thought for sure it was gone forever, uh, that was highly, highly satisfying. So um, sorry, I'm going down a rabbit hole. Let me get back over here to the uh the comments sections, if you will.

SPEAKER_02 37:46

Um, they're asking about like what's proactive. Yeah. Like so, can you get a DUI at noon? Yeah, I've given them out at noon. I've given them out at 10 in the morning. Yeah. I I've been usually those of when did you stop partying? Usually like five or six in the morning, and you're only a couple hours later. So I think, well, if they take a nap and that's what it'll get. So if I was out when I was looking for DUIs, I would stop any car that had a traffic infraction because that's a legal reason to talk to the vehicle, to talk to the driver.

SPEAKER_07 38:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:21

Now, generally, if I if you just roll the stop sign, I'm looking for quite a few things. I'm looking for the clues, I'm looking for these things that add context to you bounced off the center line or you swerved, or you can't maintain speed, or you're hitting your brakes, or you're there's all these, there's like 120 some or 140 some different things that you could do while you're driving and then while you're gonna make contact with you. There's all these stuff. So there's all these different clues. But the only way that I'm gonna figure out if those clues are there is if I talk to you. And my goal at the end of the day is to get drunk drivers off the road. That's the goal. Whether I arrest them, whether they get picked up by a friend, whether they whether they're off the road, whatever the means is, I don't have to put them in handcuffs to get them off the road. Because the other thing is, is when you I worked enough DUIs, is if I get someone whose DUI is lower on the threshold. So they're like most states are 0.08. So if you're like a 0.08, 0.10, 0.12, some around there, those are like people that are right on they're they're getting ready to go up the party. I want I want the guys that are and gals that are like really shammered. I want to make sure that I want to get those people off the road because those are the people that hit someone in a crosswalk at three in the morning and then they panic, and then you're left with a body in the middle of the road. And instead of getting care for that person and potentially saving life, you're coming to find someone who's expired because they didn't get life-saving measures afterwards, or you get to an accident where they're upside down on the beach, or they're upside down, or they've hit somebody, or they've hit something and fled, and now their car is parked in the driveway, all jacked up on fire and all that stuff. I've had that too. So, like when you're proactive, like sitting in your car is not proactive. You've got to get out of your car to be proactive. And these these guys in these units, they're they have things that they're looking for, they have all of their they have all of these things that they're adding up to your reasonable, articulable, articulable suspicion. Man, it's late in the day for me.

SPEAKER_05 40:30

I mean, you need to change that because it's so hard to even articulate that whole phrase. Reasonable, articulable suspicion is not it's it takes a long time to get that to say that legal reason to stop.

SPEAKER_02 40:42

Yeah, legal reasons, but that that's because they they've they've argued that in court, and that's what their legal eases, and that's what the that's what it is. That's it's there to protect everybody, it's to protect anybody else, like if you're just walking down the street or you're hanging out at the gas station because there's not a whole lot going on in your neighborhood that Thursday afternoon. So you and your buddies go down to the gas station, get a couple of scratch-off tickets and a couple of sodas and have at it. You're you're you're technically a patron, but you're technically loitering. What what which I I'm gonna go ahead and again, I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead and assume that there's a lot of the video that was left out, a lot of the yeah, the editing how we how do we get here. But when it gets put out to the world like that, it's it raises a lot of questions. Because if you don't explain how you get from point A to point B, getting to point B, you know, you have to violate someone's right, you either have to have a legal reason to be there or you're violating someone's rights to be there. So getting from A to B, like cutting some of that out or not having the full explanation for that, sometimes it was it could be more detrimental to what the uh the mission is, and and Tommy G's.

Fruit Of The Poisonous Tree Explained

SPEAKER_02 42:06

If you haven't watched any of his videos before, have you have you seen any of his his stuff before?

SPEAKER_05 42:10

I've never heard of the dude until I saw that one. He's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

He seems good he's awesome, awesome. He was with so he was with um their, I think his name was license, no license or something like that. There was a guy in New York, there's a couple guys in New York that they'll cut up through cars, they call it cut up through cars where they're drive through traffic and they don't give two shits about anybody just weaving out of their cars. He went to New York to ride around with these guys. He went to Milwaukee and rode around with the Kia Boys, like was with the Kia Boys as they were still like with documented. So this he's he's kind of like that Nick Shirley, it's like that investigative journalism. Like, I just want to. I'm not trying to sell a narrative, I'm not trying to show. I want to just put a camera here and show what's going on without bias, because then you can see both sides of it.

SPEAKER_05 42:59

Yeah, god. I think I'm like a 12-year-old right now, or going through puberty at a pimple right on the end of my nose.

SPEAKER_02 43:06

I keep you go on vacation, get a little bit of sun. I know the hurts. Oh, oh, and oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:13

So it's the ones that's just a little bit deep that makes you want to walk curly and wrinkled my nose, and then I'm looking at the camera, I'm like, oh, that's a big old red guy right there on the end of my nose. I touched it.

SPEAKER_02 43:23

It's it's kind of fan. I know it's it's it's it's the byproduct of that. And I apologize that life the life has done that. Interesting. That's what it is.

SPEAKER_05 43:32

Interesting. Yep. Interesting that you uh you you had to come on to uh Michigan guy's stream. So what does that make you? Yeah, too late. You lose too late. Um, okay.

SPEAKER_07 43:46

So yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:48

Uh let's uh move on. So we've got the loitering, we've got the boxing in, which we've said could have also ruined this because it's no longer a consensual encounter if you're trying to claim. That it was, and what they end up doing when they make contact with the vehicle is the guy, one of the guys you can see in the background, do one of these, which is the universal sign, like, hey, I smell something, and yeah, yeah. So he's letting them know I smell weed, like, and and that's their PC to get this guy out of the car. And there's a lot of people in the comments that were a little butthurt about them getting him out of the car and checking them and patting them down and all that. But what I think they didn't see was that indicator is like, hey, I smell it, it's in here. Um, which I don't disagree. I understand why they got them out of the car and they do all the things because of that certain area. It's a high drug crime area, they've got a specialty unit sitting on this gas station and and the places around it. Like all of this stuff makes sense to me. I get it, but again, I if you're gonna do it, I want you to do it right. I don't want you wasting taxpayers' dollars. I don't want you hemming up and violating people's rights. Um, do I think that these cops were out there intentionally trying to fuck it up? No, I don't. I don't think that's the case here. Have we seen plenty of examples on our show of cops going out fucking things up? And I think it's either intentional or just pure fucking ignorance. I do. Do I think these guys were actually out there trying to hunt and do it right? I do. I think they were trying to do it right. I just think they fucked it up. So that's what I'm trying to point out is I think they fucked it up. And here's why I think they fucked it up. Even if the MOU was in place, if that's a thing there, we don't know. We're speculating. Nobody's told us for sure. Um, somebody just said, I think they have an MOU on it. I said, okay, that does change things if that's true. But the other thing that we need more clarification on is if they have an MOU, is that for after hours or during business hours? That would be something important to know. I have never heard of one during operational hours. That's the point of the MOU. You can't just give a blind okay to cops to go enforce house rules.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

So I'll have to go, I will have to do gig giggling, googling more more deeper, but just typing in Clayton County, Georgia MOU loitering. So you guys can type in exactly the same thing that I typed in, and you'll be able to see the AI overview, the overview, the same one. They might have an MOU. Okay. So they it uh talks about one for uh but school and disciplinary matters with revolves around school, but then it talks about a diversion from arrest and uh the roles of a school resource officer. So they might have an MOU, but it might be more for like uh curfew is the word I'm looking for. To where you've got a bunch of teenagers out, school's out, you don't have a whole lot to do right now. Yeah, that I can see that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:54

Uh so again, I'd want to know the parameters. Um, the dun dun peel, the Don Dunpeel, I have a hard time saying his name. Said, uh, and what's up, Don? I'm glad you're on. He said, uh just wanted your thoughts, but personally, I believe if an officer makes a clearly unlawful or unconstitutional arrest with no probable cause, if it's dismissed, charges should be brought on the officer. No, I don't necessarily default to that. Every case has its own things to it, they're all unique. Doesn't matter if it's a robbery and you've you've made 19 robbery arrests, night all 19 robberies happened at the same 7-Eleven, and it could have been the same suspect. They're all going to be different. It's going to be some elements to it that change things. Um, and there's going to be times that, like in this one, let's say fruit of the poisonous tree. All the all the things lined up. They just they handled the call out of order. They got a little too eager and made the arrest too soon. And it becomes an unconstitutional arrest and they dismiss the case. Do I think these cops need to be charged for that? No. They fucked up, they didn't fuck up intentionally. They thought they had it right. And then they learn in court that they didn't. You're never going to be perfect. You're going to make arrests that sometimes get dismissed. You're going to have right tickets that sometimes get dismissed. Um so it no, it depends on the fact of that particular case. So I think you got to take each one for what it is. If you find out that this cop made an arrest and it's on his ex's new boyfriend, and that he's been secretly following him on social media and trying to find things on him and doing like whatever, and he makes a questionable arrest that gets dismissed. Okay, now we're talking. Now we've got some grounds to go on. But if a guy goes out there and he fucks up trying to do the right thing and he was wrong, like he gotta have grace in the job. Otherwise, nobody's gonna do it. Nobody's gonna be a cop if you can't, you're gonna make mistakes. I have made mistakes. I have made arrests that have been uh no PC'd. I've had the judge down at the well, I work at a big city, so not every place has this luxury. It's a luxury for me, but uh, I've made arrests where the judge is literally like, take him home. You know, I'm like, what the fuck? What did I do wrong? I thought I had it right, and it turns out I was wrong. It happens, it happens. So I new case law comes out all the time. Yeah, I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_02 49:35

New ordinance come out, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:37

That I'm perfect. I'm not. Um, but I've learned from every mistake I've made, and I've become a better cop because of it. So that's why I'm I'm a big that's why I'm a big fan of training and finding out is there a training flaw? Um, some of the mistakes that I've made turns out that there was a training flaw, and that exposed something that we needed to fix, and we did.

SPEAKER_02 49:59

So um, so no, I I don't, but um it's a lot of what when you start to apply the law, every every time you apply the law to any any situation, we'll just take the talk the cop out of it, just any situation when you apply the law, it gets applied to with what's the elements of the crime, and then what they they use this big fun word in court called intent. Did you intend to do what you were trying to do?

SPEAKER_05 50:28

Yeah, the men's rea, if you will.

SPEAKER_02 50:30

Yeah. So, like if you were driving 100 miles an hour and you were drunk, did you intend to kill somebody when you got into an accident? No, but if you know that if you drive drunk at 100 miles an hour, that those could be the results. That there's difference than that versus hey, I'm driving in traffic, and the police happened to be in a chase on the other side of the traffic, and the suspect got out and tried to play Frogger across the freeway, and I splattered somebody. Somebody somebody died. Yeah, is that a crime for the person to hit them? So that's why you have to every every bit of it has to be applied like that. And then the other part of with there, there are there's some mandatory things I will agree with, and there's some that I absolutely disagree with, but for the most part, I would say the the lean less mandatory things because then it lets you apply what was going on at the time, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:26

Reasonableness, it reasonableness comes down to reasonableness, and um Don followed up and he said that I understand, uh, but I was referring back to the ego problem when an arrest is clearly done because of their ego, not the law. Yeah, I tend to lean towards you. I I would agree with you on those ones, um, because we've seen it. Uh, there's somebody sent me a video recently where the guy's walking by and his whole thing is just to piss cops off. I don't really like this guy. Um, I'm about to burp. Excuse me. And uh that's why I don't typically drink beer while I'm on here. Uh and so this guy's walking by and he's like, fuck you, you know, and the mother you came out of, or something to that effect. And the cops like, you talking to me? You're talking to me, are you talking to me? You know, is like doing one of those. And the guy's like, Yeah, what the fuck are you gonna do about it? He just keeps walking. And the guy can't help himself, goes over, puts your hands behind your back, puts cuffs on him. Guys like that, Don, yeah, fuck them. You've gonna let your ego take over for that shit. Fuck you. You don't belong in this job. Uh, and you know, do I think the charges will stick? Yeah, probably not, but uh, you make enough people go through the ringer uh when you think the charges aren't gonna stick. We know cops do that. Um, and if you're gonna be that type of guy, I don't have a problem with the with the system working against us the same way. So uh farmer said, Hey sugar, are you all okay? I I think he's talking to us. Yeah, I'm doing all right. How are you doing, boo? Attack cops, uh attack cops said flock cameras made a call. Yeah, the camera thing is a big deal right now. I want you guys to know that I am personally working on this stuff now with DC. I will be heading to talk to Perf as an expert on behalf of the National Real Time Crime Center Association stuff. So I am going to work to legislate for best practices when it comes to these uh surveillance equipment that cops are using. So I'm going to be fighting the good fight to make sure that the checks and balances are out there. So when people say, Does that Levine ever put his money where his mouth is? Well, besides doing this podcast and everything that we do, just know that I fly out to DC on the 29th and I am going to try to help put our money where our mouth is even more. So um yeah, and hopefully we can get some good stuff done with that. But I I didn't want to put too much out there because they who knows what's gonna happen while I'm out there. But um, I plan to give you all an update once that goes down and let you know what it was like because I have no experience with it.

SPEAKER_02 54:07

Live stream from the hearing.

SPEAKER_03 54:08

Yo, it's just Eric here, Kyle. What's up, senators? It's your boy from TCOD up here in DC. What up? You give me 15 likes and I'll bring up this topic. Let's go.

SPEAKER_05 54:23

So too funny. Pour some beer on that nose. I know I shouldn't have messed with it. Now it's even brighter. Yeah, and then you're thinking about it. It's just gonna be. I don't give a fuck. I just don't want it like when I do move, or it just hurts. I just want it to not hurt. I can tell you breathe, or you nostrils out, you add the extra you never notice how much you move your nose until motherfucker hurts. Yep. So um, yeah, I'm gonna be working on trying to trying to get some of that cool shit going. Um, okay.

Private Lot Stops And Traffic Law Nuance

SPEAKER_05 54:58

So we touched on loitering, touched on the traffic stop. Was it a traffic stop or not? I had mentioned how they should have ran the plate. It really didn't sound like they did. It really didn't sound like they did. Even through the edits, like um, so now it becomes if it is a traffic stop, if we deem that was a traffic stop, I feel like it is. Because you came in with your patrol cars and the guys in the driver's seat, and somebody said, What if the tag was expired to that effect? I said, Okay, let's let's go off of the speculation that the tag was out. You made a traffic stop. You either you either did a stop for loitering, which was an investigation, or you made a traffic stop because the tag was out. Either way, it's in a private lot. So, again, I don't think that you can, based on an MOU, do loitering because it was during business hours and a representative was there. Um, which and they confirmed that you purchased a gas, confirmed that they purchased something, and uh you came in with the with the potential traffic stop. So now the legality-wise, can you make a traffic stop in a private parking lot of a private business? They're not on a public roadway. I would argue, since logically, if I'm putting all the logical reasoning together, we've already determined they didn't see him pulled into that place because they would have seen him pump gas. So if they didn't see him drive there, they have no proof that he drove on a public roadway to get there. This is what the courts are gonna say, guys. I'm telling you how this goes in court. Even a shitty defense, yeah, even a shitty defense attorney is gonna be able to put them them links together pretty quick because they're gonna find all the little chintzy reasons to get this case dismissed.

SPEAKER_02 56:51

Was the vehicle in motion?

SPEAKER_05 56:52

Yes. Uh then there's no was it on, was it running? Did the keys in the English any of this stuff? I don't think that car was even running.

SPEAKER_02 57:02

So here's what what like what Eric's explaining there, so I can explain because I've worked DUIs in multiple states. States have different rules when it comes to like DUIs of when it's a traffic stop, when you can stop them, when they're technically in possession of the vehicle, when they're driving the vehicle, when they're not driving the vehicle. Some states, you just physically have to be in the car with the keys in your like have the keys in your possession in the car. You don't even have to have them in the ignition, and you can get a DUI. Other states, you have to have them. The person has to be in the driver's seat, the keys have to be in the ignition, the car has to be on, and the person has to be like the per like you have to have all whether the vehicle is in motion or not, it has to be on, person that drive, like all these little specific nuances that if you don't have that one thing, the whole thing gets thrown out.

SPEAKER_05 57:55

Yeah, yeah, the whole thing. Yep. And um, so we'll go we'll go off with a traffic stop. If it's counts as a traffic stop, again, run the plate. What what's your offense? Let's say we're speculating, expired tag, don't have it, it's not there. All this is thrown out. Okay, so I feel like there was some more stuff that I had brought up. And we talked about loitering, boxing in.

SPEAKER_02 58:21

So let me propose a third that would kind of get him in that situation. Let's say those off, let's say those officers are parked in the parking lot and they're conducting a walking patrol through the parking lot and they smell the odor that they believe to be a marijuana or marijuana substance. Now they're gonna contact the driver.

SPEAKER_05 58:41

Now they got reason to make contact.

SPEAKER_02 58:44

They ever every bit of the why the were you there for too long, where there's tags, but like all of that goes away because now you have the reason to be there.

SPEAKER_05 58:52

Yeah, absolutely. That's that's all it reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime. We we tend not to finish that sentence. Um, and that that's that's a mistake that I make far too often on here because I feel, you know, I take that for granted. I know that as a cop, but we need to finish that statement. It's reasonable, articulable suspicion of a crime. So that means a crime that's occurred um is about to occur, also counts. So people need to understand that too. Because somebody told or somebody made a statement on our YouTube comment section on this that you a crime has to have occurred for you to have the RAS. And I said, no, it can it can about to occur, it can be an imminent crime that's about to occur. So, in the example I used was like a bank robbery. If I see a person during bank hours have a ski mask on or put a ski mask on, as it looks like he's about to walk into a bank and there's a car parked right out front of the door where the driver is wearing a ski mask. I have Raz to go make contact and detain. I can go detain them because I can articulate that motherfucker's about to rob this bank. That's not normal. It's not normal what they're about to do. And so, no, you don't have to have a crime occurred. Past tense, uh, to be able to stop them. Uh Tim said, You gotta hold the ice on there longer than that, Eric. Uh too funny. Um, some states will call it physical control if the lot has access to the public roadway. What does that mean? Let me read that again. Some states will call it physical control if the lot has access to the public roadway.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:43

I think they're saying that the parking lot becomes fair game to do traffic stops in, as in it's not private property. It's not off off limits, off-limits or safe, safe home base.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:56

If that's true at a state, I don't I don't agree with that. I don't like that. Because that's not that is not owned or operated at all by the public uh by the state. Um, it's not a public place. Uh Harrison dropping 10 gift memberships. Uh, I like that. Thank you, Harrison. Harrison always taking care of us. I see Marines finally got one too. Did Marine get another one?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:20

No, he I I heard that they got the one. Oh, yeah, he did.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:22

I remember hearing, I remember hearing the one because that made yes, that made national news. Uh actually Fox and CNN both covered that. Um they called to confirm. Yeah, the Secretary of War even gave him a shout-out. Uh so kudos. He said what's up, buddy. Yeah, he did. He was like, Marine blood, we heard. Congrats. So um none of that may be true, but uh you just decide for yourself if I was telling the truth. Thank you, Harrison. I was just looking through to see who got him. Um, I didn't see anybody uh that I recognize off of pets and patients.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:59

Marijuana is still illegal in the state of Georgia, it's still illegal federally.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:05

Um, yeah, so even though it's legal statewide, it could be e le still illegal federally. Yeah. Hey, James, why are you calling me an idiot, man? Be nice. I didn't call you names. Um, did you get the video I sent you where they blocked off the roads to make people go through a DWI checkpoint or D UI checkpoint? Uh Tim, I have been on vacation, sir, and I have been slowly trying to get through the emails, and I have 634 emails still because I got in last night, and today is the first day I started going through things, and I had to make a video. So, no. Um, not trying to make you feel bad, but I have not. There have been so many things.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:54

I will say this about DUI stuff because I I went through so much school for that. That even with a checkpoint, each states have litigated how those are to be set up, where they're allowed to be set up, how many people you have to have be there, the times that you're allowed to operating it, the time that you have to announce it to the public, there has to be X amount of time. Like those are so DUI, like as a cop, it would as a beat cop, I would rather go to a murder because there's less paperwork.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:30

DUI enforced a DUI, just a straight DUI for us back then was 25 to 30 attachments of additional paperwork that you're gonna have. They're there's because they happen so often, and because everybody wants to find those little nuances of did you have your key fully in? Was it all the way turned? Was the ignition completely on? Did you have your foot on your brake? Was the interlock because some states have the the ignition interlock devices where if you get so many duis to be able to drive, you have to blow into it and stuff. It's duys, are they're their own island unto themselves. Yeah, they are they really are.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:15

We're getting we're getting off topic. Yep, we're going down the dui chat. Um, Tim said, I'll send you the link on here. I'm not looking at it on this one, Tim. We're covering this one video, so um, but yeah, uh let me because even like I was saying, look, blocking through the parking lot, an odor of of marijuana.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:36

Some states have litigated that even that by itself is not enough to detain someone.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:44

And then that that's the point I was gonna get to. I don't I mean, we we've watched I've watched police videos for all of my life, and then very intently for the last five or six years with podcasting and stuff like that. The the amount of times that the officer has has said you're detained, it happens, but not nearly enough. That definable moment of this is a consensual conversation to this is you're no longer free to leave. Yeah, that line I I think we need to define that, like hey, you you're not free to leave. And there was I like um Frank Sloop on some of his videos that's when they have their traffic offenses that are restable. That he's he says that right away. Hey, I want you to know you are not free to leave, you are under arrest. We might be able to process this on scene, but you are under arrest, you are not free to leave, you cannot leave here. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Yeah, I think that moment, if it is dictated or stated, and I I don't know if we're we're you know, maybe another 20, 25 years away. From that being something that becomes like like your Miranda rights.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:04

Before you start questioning any questions to go, you have your Miranda rights. Before like you start to interact with someone, you have to look you're being detained on suspicion of this. You're being detained because you've a potential witness to this. Or you're being like, you gotta have to state your reason why you're there and why you're detaining them. And on the other side of that, I used to do that unless like I don't know. I used to get diarrhea of the math when I was talking to people because sometimes people would fight or they would run or they would get jumpy. A lot of they just didn't know what was going on.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:40

And if I would talk to them and let them know, hey, this is hey, we're here because of this. You're parked at the stall, did this thing a little bit longer. My guy's gonna go in there and see if you, you know, if you pay for gas, if you're good, then you should be good. Then while we're talking, I get the odor of alcohol or odor of marijuana, then we get out, we start like if we get to that point, but some part of the policing is for sure secretive, but some of it you just tell them, yeah. And it eliminates a lot of that.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:06

I think you bring up a point that I try to push on here all the time, is because you know, ID crack. That's another thing that our our our community loves to talk about, and it's it's caused some friction sometimes uh between me and them uh when we talk, because I tell them, I'm like, listen, I'm ID happy too. I am one of those people, a hundred percent. And I I don't apologize for it uh because the more information that I can get, the better I can handle a call, the the safer I can handle a call. However, this is where I think us as police, and you kind of hit the nail on the head without saying it, is we need to be informing, we need to educate people as we're doing it. And I think it's no different than why we say the Miranda warning. Because we have to, in order to gain the credibility, transparency, and trust with the community, we have to inform them of their rights when it's applicable. So if I'm asking you as a uniformed officer on behalf of the state that swore an oath to the constitution, if I'm asking you for your ID, I need to explain when it's required and when I'm simply asking. And I do that every time when I'm talking to somebody, hey, I uh you don't have to give me your ID, but it would help me out. Um, can can I get your ID for the report and for for me doing my job? I've I've never, never had anybody tell me no, ever. No one has ever told me no on that. So I'm getting informed, it's an informed consent. And I'm like, all right, appreciate it. And even with suspects, even with suspects, I will tell them, hey, I'm I'm running, I'm you know I'm gonna run your name. And if you've got some bullshit local warrants, I'm not worried about that. I was like, I just need to make sure that you're not here for you know, rape, kitty diddling, or murder. Like, that's all I care about. As long as it's not something violent, dude.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:12

And and then I'm not here at the gas station worried about loitering. I'm worried about all the drug dealing. I'm not worried about the loitering. If all you're doing is here is loitering and getting some gas, I don't care about that.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:22

But yes, I think if we could legislate something new along with some of the police work stuff, if we're we could put it right along there with Miranda, but like informed consent versus mandatory.

ID Requests Transparency And Trust

SPEAKER_05 1:09:35

We we we as police should be letting people know, and and I I understand there's gonna be cops out there and be like, oh yeah, just tell all the bad guys and they're just gonna be able to get away with all that. Listen, it I've been doing this 20 plus years. Real bad guys. I'm talking the baddest of the baddest people out there. You're gonna get them. We're not doing our job. If I if me telling you that you you need to give me your ID or you don't is is the make or break, we're not doing our fucking job. So don't give me that. That's lame. That's lame. Uh and and and just like this, stop. Again, their instincts were right. There was dope in the car. There was he had a criminal history, he had stuff in the vehicle that showed that he probably does a deal. They just didn't catch him at the right time. They had all the things there, they knew what they were doing. They're a specialized unit, they see things, you know, it's no different. The the example I like to use, and I used it on uh YouTube comment earlier, is like, hey, I'm a hunter, I've been hunting my whole life. I have been in the woods deer hunting, and I have seen a squirrel literally running across the ground in the distance, and for 30 seconds was like, that's a buck. And I'm looking, that's a buck, and I'm trying to see where it's moving. And I am for sure that that is a goddamn buck. And then all of a sudden, like, uh, oh, it's a I'm an idiot. It's a squirrel. That is a squirrel. So this is where I'm trying to get the officers to slow down because you're looking in the woods right now and you're looking for a deer because you're hunting, and everything looks like a deer. Slow down a little bit and you'll see, uh, okay, that one's a squirrel. Or all right, let me wait for it to get to a clearing. Let me do this, this, this, this, and this. And then what's in the clearing, I can take my shot. Don't just say, Oh, deer, and then go. And I felt like that's what they did here. They're uh, we got a camera crew here with us, deer, go. And they they went in for the kill, and it should have waited. Um, somebody said something. Uh, I wanted to get through.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:39

And it just happened to be Clayton County, too. Of all the places to be riding with, they're they were known for back in the day, world's scariest police videos. You don't run from yeah, yeah, they were in Clayton County, that's where they were. So you don't run from Clayton County, like back in the 90s, they'll put you in a ditch. So they've been doing this for the last 25-30 years. Like, you don't run because if I I'm gonna have to pull up a map of Clayton County, Georgia, because I believe there's a big uh thoroughfare that runs. Yeah, they got 75 and 675 that run right through there. On then they're on the south side of Atlanta. So anything coming up down from from Florida, it's gonna run right through there. So that's where yeah, you're yeah, and it's one of those, like, like you were saying, if you follow the clues, you know where you know where your break-in break-ins are. So you go into that neighborhood between two and the four, thirty in the morning, like they're doing what they're supposed to be doing. They just like you're I it's a half-step.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:43

Yeah, yeah. Um Kingslayer said, uh, did you talk about how one LT had pupils the size of plates and was super twitchy over the whole video? How are they gonna investigate other people when the cop looks like he's on drugs? I'm not gonna, I don't, I don't know. I didn't see that. I'm not gonna speculate um on that.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:04

Uh it's a different time in law enforcement, but the way that they would talk to the people sometimes, the um uh like right, like yelling fuck yelling like cussing like in law enforcement. Is it gonna happen? Yes, yeah. I just think you gotta have a purpose behind it. Those moments that like like you're you just said, there's a purpose behind it. Yeah, so just in like in us conversing over the gas pumps, dropping F bombs, don't you you know what? Like, all like I don't agree with that. I still believe that there should there's a level of professionalism regardless of where you work at, yeah. But I also understand that it's a I've never worked in Georgia, never worked on the south side of Atlanta. So I could be just talking out my ass.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:56

It could be a cultural thing in the area and they they're talking to the culture of where they're at. Um so they don't come across as a Boy Scout or a new guy or any of that. So I do understand that. Um, I do tell people that I do think cursing has a place in law enforcement, it has a purpose. More often than not, if I cursed at somebody, it's to avoid a use of force. It is the I one of the last ditch efforts, you know. Hey, show me your hands, show me your hands, show me your motherfucking hands, and I want you to know that that was the last thing I could do to show the seriousness before I end up pulling this trigger, you know. Uh, be so there's a purpose behind it. I didn't lead with it. Um, but and in that, you know, it's one of those things that's it's still a general orders violation, but if it's explainable, and again I go back to was it reasonable? Yes, it's reasonable because I gave you a reasonable explanation of why I did it, and it makes sense, it's logical. So um, yeah, so there's that. Um was the comments you had up when I was trying to talk over you. Oh, that was uh King Slayer talking about how his pupils were the size of dinner plates. Oh I didn't see that, I didn't watch the whole episode either. Um, I just watched that one stop.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:20

So I do remember I I watched the whole episode. I watched it earlier today, and then I about 40 minutes because it's an it's like almost an hour long, yeah. Like 40 some minutes into it, like he Tommy G does. He tells the lieutenant or the the the guy in the car, he's like, I some of these cars when you're pulling up on them, I'm not sure why they exact like you're explaining. I'm not he doesn't see the lawful reason for them to be there, right? But after a few breadcrumbs, then you're like, Oh, there's the drugs, oh there's the gun, oh there's this guy with this felony warrant, oh there's this that's going on. Because the getting, I would say getting the stats, great, but if it doesn't stay, it means nothing.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:05

If it if you can't follow up on it and it doesn't stick, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:09

Apply it to anybody, anybody that anybody listening to us right now, you've got a job that you do. I'm assuming everybody's been employed or is employed. Think about your job and how when you go to work, because you've been doing it for so long, you can just see things. And that is how specialized units tend to work. They have been doing it for so long and specializing in a certain thing that they can just see it, they can see it better than you. And another person's gonna look at that and like, oh, that was bullshit. They had nothing. That's not true. Um, and that's why I'm not getting on these guys so much because that was a specific area, they're a specialized unit, that's what they look for, and they were right, they weren't wrong, they were right. Uh, so let's not forget that. Um, so it goes with any car detailers. I I remember specifically taking my vehicle up to a car detailer one time and be like, I just think it needs a uh a quick um vacuum and and uh armor all. And they look and they're like, Well, what about this, this, this, this, and this? You want us to fix that? You want us to do that? I'm like, I didn't see all that now that you mention it, how much is that gonna be? No, no, let's just stick with vacuum and armor all. It's just the car, it gets me here and there. So, yeah, people, you do start to specialize, like just like me. I can be driving by a pawn shop and be instantly like they stole that shit the you know yesterday, they're here selling it. Like, I can tell. Um, I can't explain it. And well, sometimes I can explain it, but I you just you just can tell. So it's just any job, any job you name, you just start to see things, patterns.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:54

It's pattern recognition, and it's it's one of those where we we use pattern recognition to apply it, but at the same time, we can't because then they call it profiling, and you can't be profiling because profiling is wrong. But you're not it's not like you're not explaining like I go to the baseball games all the time and I watch batters, and before the person goes up, I can just tell who's gonna be able to crush it and who's not. Some people have that ability from being able to watch sports, and I they can't explain it, but they just know just by their physique or the way that their build is or the way that they their motion or the way that they're looking, like loss prevention. When I first got out of the military, I worked loss prevention for just a little bit of time. Those guys are something like yeah, it's it's something different. That's a great example. They can just before you even get in the store, they know you're there to steal.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:54

Yeah, they're already zooming in on like I'm I remember taking reports from some of these guys. I'm like, why did you start zooming in on these guys like walking up to the store and like can just tell? It's like that's impressive. 748, that's what it is. So um lawful, uh, lawful acts 1955 said language fits a situation. Get on the fucking ground versus get on the ground, motherfucker. Uh, yeah, he's right. Um, it the way you curse makes a difference. Um, calling somebody a piece of shit is that I I'm not down with that. I don't care what the situation is. Um, but you know, show me your fucking hands. Like, I'm trying to emphasize like, bro, this is it. This is what this is the last verbal side of me you're getting before I go to a use of force, and we're not gonna like that. I'm not gonna like that. So yeah, absolutely. Um, but uh I saw, give me one second. There was a good comment. Somebody asked a question or said a comment, something about training. Um, are you well Scott said, are you telling me cops are operating under the same limited training I got at Ross County Security Guard?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:04

That's disturbing. Um 50 different states, 50 different requirements. Yeah, that's and then federally there's the federal side of it. Yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:13

Um, damn it. Uh oh, farm boy, Michigan Farm Boy said many cops can lie during an investigation and have interpreted that. Oh, many cops hear that they can lie during an investigation and have interpreted it as they have to lie as part of the investigation. And I I think there's a lot of merit to that. Um, I I I have lied. I won't say that I haven't. Um, but limitedly and intelligently, let's put it that way. Um, you know, the especially some of the old stuff. Hey, your buddies in the next door, next room singing, so it's a race. Who's gonna win this one? I've told that one a million times. It works a lot. It works most of the time. It works most of the time. Um your buddies next door singing like a bird. And you make sure that the door's just shutting so they see a bunch of food getting brought.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:08

Or you walk in with a piece of uh vanilla envelope and you got a bunch of paper, and it looks like they've been writing sigma statements and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:15

Yeah, there's all sorts of little tricks, guys. Like psychological tricks that you add to it. And and then when they say, you know, well, all that kitty porn on my computer, uh I didn't download it, it was his computer, it's just in my room, like well, okay. I guess that lie that lie was forgivable.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:36

Will you put that one on a statement for me?

SPEAKER_05 1:21:38

Yeah, yeah, those lies are forgivable. Um damn it. There was a good question, or somebody said something. Oh, here it is. I found it. Scott Huffman said Um cops should be spending a minimum of two years in school before even being considered for the job, dude. Okay, I understand that feeling and that thought. It depends. Let me let me kind of explain where I'm coming from. One, I've got a dual master's degree in criminology and criminal justice. Do I think between my associate's degree, my bachelor's degree, and my dual master's degree, that that made me a better cop on the streets? No, I don't. What do I think made me a better cop? Life experience, experience, social skills. I had I was a waiter, I was a bartender. I was um thank God I never had to do retail or be in uh uh Starbucks, I think. But baristas, I've said this on the show before, but baristas, anybody in um, you know, we gotta talk to people, retail, uh sales, stuff that talks to people, those people make the best cops, some of the best cops I've ever seen. Why? Because 99.9% of the job, I made that stand up, but most of it, is talking. And the guys that can get out uh and not have to use force are able to use their words. That's why I think if you get a combination of a person that's trained in grappling for two years and had a social skills job, those are the best cops ever. Way better than a dude that went from high school to a four-year degree and then went out in the streets and had zero fucking life experience and probably lived at home for their four-year degree.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:23

Can I explain why? And we haven't even talked about this, it just came up. Because the life experience will get you so far. And once that life experience gets you so far, then you know you're gonna have to use force. You got to have that physical confidence to know that you can take somebody on. Knowing that you have that confidence allows you to talk to people as you're going to talk to people and go through the inflections to get to the point where, like, hey, motherfucker, put your hands on the ground. You know, you don't get any on the ground. When you get to that point, you have the confidence to say, Hey, if you don't do this, I'm gonna use force. And then you have the confidence of knowing that you not only can use force, but you can safely use force. That confidence is huge. Then you could take that and apply it to everything because, like what you were probably gonna get at like a master's degree will do nothing. What is what did you learn in your master's degree how to do with the naked guy?

SPEAKER_06 1:24:18

Nothing, nothing.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:20

I learned and what in any academy will teach you how to do that? Nothing. People call 911 for everything. So you take everything and you put it into an academy book and try to teach that. Yeah, you're not you're not going to. We want to make sure that they get out there and yes, the constitutional law, understanding when they can do something, when they can't do something, when something it like when it becomes a crime, when like all this is all of those things, very much so. But at the same time, you have the law enforcement's all about experience. If you don't get the experience, you're not gonna know how because part of like how to deal with this craziness is I've got 15 years of other craziness things. This one is this one new new unique thing on its own, and there's gonna be new unique craziness, but I can use all my experience of all this other craziness to apply to this and get a reasonable outcome out of this to make sure that I'm not violating someone's rights, that I'm not breaking the law, that I'm making sure that the people that need to be putting handcuffs are put in handcuffs, and the people that aren't aren't.

Better Police Training Life Skills Maturity

SPEAKER_05 1:25:31

Yeah, yeah. And I think you know, age. Um, I I and I've said this a lot on the show, guys. You know, the ones that have watched a lot, but I don't think we should be able to be a cop at 21. I I think 25 should be the minimum, and I don't necessarily even agree with that. I kind of like 30 personally, and and and I understand that it's not realistic. There's no way we'd have enough cops uh to losing a lot of youth. Yeah, we're losing a lot of youth. Um, and it it can be a very physical job, uh, depending on the city and area that you're in. So it it does have to vary, but I think maturity-wise, I think 30 is perfect. I think that's the perfect age, but who the fuck wants to start being a cop at 30?

SPEAKER_02 1:26:16

Uh so but um then once you you get to that point, like you said, who wants to deal with that? Who wants to go babysit a bunch of other adults that can't adult? Yeah, because that's that's a lot of what law enforcement is is a babysitting adults that can't adult.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:34

Yeah. And then um somebody, Ryan said, uh, what should cops have training in? I wish the Constitution was one of those areas, so do I. Um, I feel for the citizens too, though. And so let me let me give you kind of my hierarchy of training. Um I think one, it should be a prerequisite that you have two years of grappling before you get into law enforcement. If we're going to treat this like a profession and we want it to be a higher standard, we want to lower the use chances of uses of force, and we know when they do use force it's going to be appropriate. Well, damn it, if we're going to do that, they should have two years of grappling. So you've got that. Um, and then constitution training. Constitution training should be throughout the entirety of an academy. It shouldn't just be a block. It shouldn't be, you know, here's one week, here's two weeks, and then we move on to the next thing. Uh, I don't believe in block training, period. I think it should be a progressive state of training. Um, where I am at, it's a progressive state. That's why I really um love the training that we've got. Um, and for those that know where I work, I can tell you that some of the issues that we have been uh recently busted for, we have good training on. I'll leave it at that. We have good training on it. So So uh if an officer screws it up, it's on them. You can't put that one on the department. So uh anyway, I'll digress from that. That's about the most you'll ever hear me talk about where I work. Uh so um, but constitution training is a huge failure in in law enforcement because we swear an oath to something that we don't even fucking know. And how do you prove that? Shit, you guys have done it a million times on in the comment sections with me. Just go ask a cop to tell you the first, uh, to tell you the five elements of the first uh amendment and they can't do it. I'm not asking you to know the constitution verbatim. That's not what I want. I don't want you to be a verbatim guy, period, because what we deal with is never that clean cut. You have to interpret what's happening to you and see if it fits a lot of things that never have a black and white cookie-cutter way of looking at it. You've got to interpret real life and kind of put it to a law and be like, does that fit? Do we have the elements here? That's what I want you to know as a cop. So when it comes to training, I want you to be able to look at what you're doing. And before you make that enforcement, I want you to be able to look at the constitution and be like, well, does this fit the elements under the constitution? Am I doing it right? You know, it does this fall under the first uh amendment? Does this fall under the second amendment? Am I violating that? Like you don't need to know it verbatim. You just need to know if you're violating it or if it if it fits along the lines of what you're doing. So I think that's important. So getting into the constitution side, obviously, arrest, search, and seizure is huge. Um, I I again, the things that get us in trouble the most is our ego. So I think having some sort of emotional intelligence and ego training is huge. Understanding when you've switched over from your logical and reasoning part of your brain to your emotional center, and you're no longer talking and trying to be a cop through that logic and reasoning. That's what we need versus the ego, which is an emotional trait. Can't, I'm not saying I want you to be a fucking robot. That's not what I mean. But if you're making decisions based on ego, you got to understand that about yourself and realize that that's happening before it's too late. I'm not saying that you can't get emotionally wrapped up. I've been there. I've been emotionally wrapped up on calls, kid calls, domestic violence calls where a woman's just gotten the brakes beat off of her. Uh, those calls have messed with me. But I've been able to either recognize it within myself or have had great partners that have been able to recognize it for me and say, hey, I got it. Go deal with this. And they've they've directed me into the right place. So um managing each other is another thing. And not this is something dead, like I don't know that we we can if we do train it. But like the culture of the military, the culture of the military, and you tell me because you were army. Uh I've talked about this maybe one other time on the show, but everything that we did always went back. When you got an ash chewing, it was always the taxpayer this, the citizens that, civilians, this, everything, everything in the military. They were brought up because including your own body. Yes, because they own it. And that's that mop head you just broke, that's taxpayer dollars. You know, go paint those rocks. That's taxpayers' rocks, that's a civilian's rocks. You need to take pride in the rocks that you're painting underneath that flag right now. Everything came back to the citizens and to the taxpayers. We do not have that mindset in policing, it is not a part of the culture. It may be at very few places, but overall, nationwide, if we're going to teach our guys anything, it has to be a cultural change in who the fuck we are working for and what we're doing out there. And that has to be about the citizens. So if you're going to wreck a car, if you're going to uh leave your gun belt in your own personal vehicle and that shit gets stolen because that's happened. We've seen cops get that stuff happen, you know. Um whatever it is, like we have to bring the culture back to who the fuck we work for. And I don't know, it has to start in the academy. That's the only place that that can start, and it has to continue through FTOs. I think if you can combine those two forces together, we can slowly but surely create that same atmosphere that we have in the military.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:45

Because I had a lieutenant that used to say, we're in customer service, and I used to hate hearing that. And he would explain it on everything. You're there for customer, your customer is who called you, you're there to service the client. They're they're paying taxes, you're being paid by those taxes, go do a good job. You're there for 10 hours, do 10 hours of work. Show me 10 hours. Like, but like the like you were saying, like the that culture of you need to answer to somebody, you have to be answerable for everything that you do. All of this, there was a police officer in Florida that drove 90 some miles an hour. Did you see that? Wrecked his car. No, so the dash camera is from somebody else. Is it where he it's a curve and he goes into the water? Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did see that one. Yeah, wasn't responding to a call, wasn't doing anything, and people well like on the internet, people were going back and forth in the comments of should he be responsible? Should not someone has to replace that car. That's a line item that's gonna get replaced by somebody. That's a $70 some thousand dollar piece of equipment with all the other equipment in it, and that one was in particular was a canine vehicle. Those are built differently. Oh, yeah, yeah, those got extra batteries and a backup cooling system, and the big cage in there, and all the extra fans and all the monitors and all that stuff. So, like when I was in the army, I was an MP, and when we first got back from Iraq, we obviously we got back from Iraq, so we weren't working the road. The unit that was working the road, they had just got an influx of brand new patrol cars because the army had just got civilian police officers. This is back in 2004, so they just got brand new all these brand new police cars because as soon as you start opening new things up, budget opens up. But uh, they got all these brand new cars, so somebody took it upon themselves to take one of the brand new unmarked cars into an area and drive it recklessly for no reason and wrecked it. So when we came back from Iraq, one of the first things that we seen was this wrecked patrol car in the parking lot. So the we they're called the Provost Marshal, but our our commander made sure that that was parked there, and that's the first thing you see before you leave, or first thing you see when you come into the parking lot, and that's the first thing, last thing you see before you leave. And let you know that hey, that person was responsible for wrecking that that the this the that sense of the I'm taking pride in my community. I'm here helping this community because then it that community helps go back and forth because then it helps build upon itself. Those officers that are in the parking lot, they're there because the community, the the business owners wanted them there in that parking lot and forcing this loitering thing, and that's why this is going on. So it's everybody's working together to get the drugs out of the area or to get the guns out of the area or get the gang violence out of the area. Everybody that's positively wants to follow the law, everyone has that same we're working at it together. So if you come at it as the community, as you're saying, you have that. It's this is my community too. This is this is I like I I I'd rather be in a community where I'm you know I'm writing tickets for stop signs and small, like menial stuff. I don't want to be going out in drug calls, I don't want to be going on you know shots fired calls four or five times a shift. Like I'd rather not have that type of call volume. I'd be high a different type of call volume, but that's something that the agency, the leadership, and then the community, like you're saying, you work together, that sense that like that ownership, that belongingness.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:38

Yeah.

Grappling BJJ And Safer Use Of Force

SPEAKER_05 1:36:39

Yep. I I think that's you know, when we're when we're talking about the education side, so um that that's where I think I think we need to be. Uh I does it make me right. No, I not necessarily. That's it's my hunch. I think that I think that would improve policing. Uh, I think that would improve the culture all the way around. Um, I don't think we take enough serious heed towards grappling. Um, because let's face it, when we have to use force, if we are punching people, perception, everything comes into it. Perception. So if perception is going to be a major component, well, let's go with the one that looks the best and is actually, in my opinion, the most effective. Grappling in itself. I'm not gonna just say BJJ, although I I think BJJ is the best. Um, there's other graphics.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:31

It's a mix of stuff. Yeah, cat tracking. I wrestled when I was in school.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:34

Yeah, all of those things also help. Um, you know, I'm not gonna say one's better than the other, but I do think grappling uh BJJ is the is the best, easiest one for us to get into. And it really helps get us into you know, cuffing positions and stuff like that when somebody's resisting.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:54

Because you get pain compliance is what you're looking for. I can get pain compliance by punching in the face, but I can also get pain compliance by pressure pressure to other parts of the body, right? More tension, yeah, joint manipulation, things that in the public perception, a joint manipulation does not look nearly as bad as if I just clock someone in the face.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:16

And I'll get more sometimes.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:18

You might get more compliance out of joint manipulation because and with joint manipulation, I can be more measured and controlled. I can I can amp the pressure up. I can get you in a position where I know, all right, right here is where he's probably not feeling any pain, but he's feeling pressure. And I'm gonna start my verbal commands. Hey, give me your other hand, pull it out from under you now. If they're not listening, I'm like, hey, if you don't do it, I'm going to amp up the pressure right here, and you're not going anywhere. There's nothing more morally defeating than a cop that is calmly talking to you and be like, hey, dude, like you're stuck. I know you're stuck, you know you're stuck. And I've got the control right now. I don't want to do this right now. So give me your other hand. You know, I I've been in that a million times. Izzo um pointed out in a video recently there was so apparently there's a controversial shooting that happened while I was gone. I haven't really looked into it yet.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:20

Um is it the one where the guy with uh with the baseball bat?

SPEAKER_05 1:39:24

Uh no, there was some dude on the ground.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:27

There's four officers around him, and then all of a sudden was that Minnesota, yeah. Yeah, he was yeah, he was actively stabbing the police officers.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:39

Yeah, yeah. So I I again I I didn't I I just saw you know one clip from it looked like a bystander from behind, and um they they plugged the dude and apparently that blew up. So I was like, all right. Um, but Izo did a he paused at this point where they were fighting with this guy before it got to the shooting where he was in the perfect position for a rear naked choke, um, sleeper hold, whatever you guys want to call it. And I was like, he's like, but you took that tool away from us, like without understanding it. And I'm like, yeah, like again, like that's another thing. Like, if you gave us that, there would be less people. Excuse me, there would be less people that that get killed because the use of force gets ramped up. If we're trained in it, it is a valuable tool, guys. I've been rolling since or sorry, I've been doing Brazilian jujitsu since like 06. And I have been put to sleep so many times. I can't even count how many times I've been put to sleep and seeing people put to sleep. And there's the shittiest little jujitsu gyms across the nation that have an LLC with very limited insurance based on their place, and their people are choked out every day, all day. They're still here, they're not dead because it is safe. It's a safe technique when done properly. Uh, and you've taken it you've taken that away from us um because chokes look bad. Um, it's not an air choke, it's a blood choke. It cuts the blood supply off to the brain. You fall asleep. It actually is quite refreshing when you wake up. Uh, at least that's been my experience. Uh, some people wake up with headaches. I never had that. I always wake up like I took a you know, 30-minute nap. Yeah. And I'm like a solid rim sleep. Yeah. And uh completely confused with what happened. I assumed what happened. I'm like, did I get put out? And they're like, Yeah, you went out, bro. Oh shit. My bad. Um, so Izzo pointed out in the video, you know, it could have been an opportunity. And now look, force got escalated because you took that away from us. And, you know, when your hands on, taser's too close. It's not gonna work that close up. Things to consider, guys. Um lawful acts 1955 said pain compliance generally gets resistance as people try to move away from it. Control should be the goal, punches should be for changing level of consciousness versus gain compliance. Um, possible lethal in Washington, maybe or I don't know what he's trying to say at the end there. Um it depends on the type of pain compliance. Like I hated drive stunning with the taser where they put it into you because just like he's saying, that causes you to move away from it. However, if I've got you in uh what's a good one that I like to use, like uh let's say a goosenecked wrist lock. So I'm escorting you. I literally let me see if I can do it, yeah. So I'll have your your elbow tucked into my chest and I'm pushing down like that. Yeah, exactly. And uh I'm escorting you out of a building or whatever it is, the bar usually. Uh that's not that's not making you go, you you're just going where I tell you to go. And I don't have to put really anything on there because once you feel that little bit, everybody does the same thing. They go, Oh, and they're like, All right, you're gonna walk, walk out of here. So it just depends. Pain compliance itself doesn't necessarily get resistance, depends on what it is, what you're doing, where it's at. Um, but those are things to consider. Um uh man, we went, we got way off top topic here. Um I have that problem. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:32

That's I mean, it's a good, it's a bad problem to have when you have some things you want to talk about, but it's a good problem to have if you're just podcasting for four hours.

Clearing The Air And Ride Along Idea

SPEAKER_05 1:43:40

Very, very fit. Um, so I want to I want to hit on the Georgia thing one more time. Let me actually, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna pull up play it again. No, no, no, no. Uh I'm gonna pull up my Instagram and go to that actual post. Um and just go to the comment section of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:09

Atlanta Airport is uh technically in Clayton County's jurisdiction. Partsville Jackson is on the northwest corner of Clayton County.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:18

Okay. Let me share the screen here.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:23

Instagram share. I don't know how well y'all are gonna be able to read this. Oh, that's not too bad. Um, so I'm just going down the comment section here. Um let's see here. I wanted to see if Copville said anything. But uh Beyond the Thin Blue Line said once they figured out that he got gas, the stop should have been over at the point. Uh now you have no reason, reasonable suspicion to proceed. They certainly shouldn't have pulled him out of the car, even if it's legal, it's just not necessary at that point. Um, and beyond the thin blue line, he's actually a new person that um I found on the social medias. He's a retired cop, and he's kind of going down the same path that we're going. So calling out, you know, some bad shit. So I think we're gonna get him on the show. Um uh the Frank uh the Francog 131 said, watch the whole episode, brother. You'll be pissed. They did this on repeat and much worse.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:27

Uh I said. And then every one of the time that they interact with people, it's either in a gas station, parking lot, it's always in a parking lot. It's a parking lot at a gas station, parking lot at a hotel, parking lot at an apartment complex.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:43

Yeah. Um, this guy said there's a lot being left out of this video, and I know it's just a short, but that leads to a bunch of non-cops to have uneducated opinions on what may actually be happening. Was he on parole or probation? Were the tags expired? Had they actually been watching him for a longer period of time, a consensual encounter can turn into a detention. Um, I actually responded to this guy and said the point I am making is the initial contact is loitering. I don't think we as cops get to make that call during operational hours. Typically, that's an after-hours thing where MOUs can be put in place to allow. They boxed him in. That's a traffic stop on a private lot for loitering and no complaining party. Loitering is out the window when it was shown he was a customer. Unless it was edited out, the plates never were ran. Expired tags in a private lot does nothing when the car isn't in motion on a public roadway. See where I'm going. And uh he says, I've seen where you're at, just giving you additional information, and expired tags do apply in a private lot to the public. He clearly drove in. And I'll disagree. I don't think that that does because you have to see him actually drive there. And it sounds like nobody saw him drive there.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:04

So it's a parking complaint at most to begin with.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:08

Um, I will say overwhelmingly, most people seem to agree with what I had to say. Um, purely based on the hunch, it's completely illegal. Um, this is beyond a stretch. Courts and DAs would shut this shit down after the 10th consecutive suppression hearing. Uh, yeah. Um, weed, they found weed. Um this person said, no PC at all. Being a gas pump does not give PC. What if a driver's simply making a call and doesn't want to drive and talk? What if it goes both ways? A hunch is not enough for a stop. It is enough for a lawsuit, though.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:45

So yeah, we have I have an idea, Eric. I have an idea.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:51

What idea?

SPEAKER_02 1:47:53

Looks like we're going to Clayton County and we're gonna do a ride along with them. Okay. And then while we do the ride-along with them, we have them explain further what's going on. Why are we pulling up to this car? We all of those questions and all those things that we're asking for the beforehand that I am again make an assumption that some of these things are there, yeah. We could find out.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:20

Yeah, we could do that. I don't know that they'd be willing to do that, but we could try.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:27

Well, because here's my here's my thought though. If this video, and I don't have it pulled up, Tommy G generally gets millions of views on his videos. Yeah. So if this video has got millions of views, we we do and I believe and they have I believe five or six different stops. There's five, there's quite a few of this over the hour, the hour that they're that they do it. If this is the view that's being put out to the public, that hey, we don't we're just stopping people. I as a chair for I as a you know leadership, I would want to change that message because I want the public to understand that hey, we don't want to violate your rights, we don't want to stop you. We we want to make sure that we're enforcing the law. That means enforcing it legally, following the law, making sure that we're not just pulling up and detaining people at a gas station and stuff like that. So I would say that there is an arguable other side of the coin to want to, I would say clear the air, but kind of here's an editorial that gets can be added to this. Is all

Reading Comments And Real World Tactics

SPEAKER_02 1:49:39

those questions that you didn't get to ask? We're asking them.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:42

Um, Wade said, Eric, have you run into people that counter your moves like turning the joint lock or in BJJ when you're answering the phone and put your hands on the ear to relieve pressure? No. Um, most of the time, anybody that uh I've gone or was about to go hands on. With they put indicators out there that they know something and I change my tactics. So, for instance, um there was a guy that an officer had told, like, like, this is no longer a discussion. I need you to turn your turn around and put your hands behind your back because you're going to jail. So he let them know clearly you're under arrest. And the guy took a stance that had every indicator that this dude knew how to box or knew how to throw hands. And I was like, Nope. I'm not, I'm not going, I'm not going in on that. Like, I'm not taking that chance. I'm not, this ain't a tournament. I'm not in it to win uh uh points. I'm in it to do this as safely as possible. So as soon as he did that, I switched over to my taser. And I was like, eh, this is not a this is not a situation where I need to go hands-on. And I'm not the one at risk. My other friend, my partner is. He's the one right in front of him. So I let him know. I said, hey, dude. I was like, I respect the game. I see that you know how to throw hands. And then that changed this guy's whole attitude. I said, So I'm not looking to get my ass beat by you. I said, I respect it. I'm going to my taser now. I'm just letting you know. And the guy's like, All right, boss, all right. He's like, I just see you gotta have some fun. And I was like, nope, I'm not looking to have any fun. I'm too old for that. And he and he stopped. But that's where the word game goes in. It's I inflated his ego to let him know, like, dude, I know you're gonna box the ears off me. I'm good. I don't need that. So um, I've never though, once I've gone hands-on, to your point, Wade. Once I've gone hands-on, I've never had anybody uh because I can usually tell. Like, I it one I'm if I go hands-on with you, I've typically already got a hand on you. I've already kind of gauged. I'm I'm testing you, I'm seeing what your balance is like, I'm seeing how you uh react to me getting risk control or how you react to me, you know, um trying to escort hold you, or whatever it is. Like there's ways that a person that knows what they're doing reacts, and I can feel that. Uh, it's hard to explain if you're not a person that grapples.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:16

I was I'm trying as you were saying that, I'm trying to think about what other words would I but like you're saying that unless you're physically touching someone, or you're like you won't feel them tense up, you won't feel the body inflections, you won't feel yeah, the respiration start. There's stuff that your body naturally will do that you can just feel that unless you have rolled a little bit, and I don't have nearly the same amount of it because I have this compared to Eric's giant pick of experience. I just I wrestled when I was in high school, and then I I didn't kind of stay, I just I knew that I needed to be able to hold my own, so I kind of stayed with it a little bit, but not like to a point that I ever like was training or anything like that. But I had one guy once and he was a former police officer, so I I didn't know that at the time. He was highly intoxicated. I started wrestling with him and he started resisting back. And I same to you, I was like, if we get go any worse than this, I'm just just I'm either gonna start to beat brakes off you or I'm just gonna shoot you. Like, there's no, yeah. I'm not I'm not I'm not there to get into a like from the police standpoint. We're not there to get into a fist fight with you. Like, there's no you don't get a gold star to get into the shift, you don't like nothing. You just get to go write more report and use a force, and like you get to do that with a black eye now. That there's no so ideally you you don't want ideally, you don't have to use force, you're talking people in handcuffs, yeah, is the best way. But when you start to put hands on someone, there's just things that a person will do when they start to resist that the cops are gonna say stop resisting, and you're gonna look like anybody else with the camera right there on him going, he's not resisting. Yeah, you can't see you can't you can't see the feel, you can't feel the manipulations and things like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:54:17

Yep, there there is that aspect to it. Um, and officers, this is where you can improve is by narrating what you're feeling. I've had been hands-on with a guy, and I'm like, dude, I can feel you trying to get up to your knees. Stop. And I will say, I'm going to it's grappler vernacular, but I'm like, I'm just gonna put my hooks in, and I'll say it out loud because if I go to court, I can explain it. I'm gonna put my hooks in, I'm just gonna flatten you back out. So stop, you know, you know, and you try to beat them uh there, you try to beat their morale down too, because I'll tell them, like, you're messing with the wrong guy today. Like, I've I've done that. I've been on the back of a big dude and he's trying to get up. He goes into a turtle position, and I just put my hooks in and flatten him back out. I'm like, we're gonna do this game over and over again. I'm just going to let you waste your energy because I do this all the time. I was like, you're not going to escape me and you're not gonna beat me up. I was like, I'm just gonna tire you out, and you're gonna end up puking. Because that's what out of shape people that don't do this regularly do. So uh there's just a whole bunch of ways around it. How long does it take to become marginally efficient with BJJ? Uh in police work, I think if you do it consistently two to three days a week for six months, you will be pretty decent. Okay-ish. Okay-ish. Like for police work, I think you'll be amazing. I think you'll be pretty good uh for what we deal with the majority of the time. And if you do it for two years, I think you'll be great. I think that's that's the that's where I would love for you to get two to three days a week till you're uh a legit blue belt, which is about two years. It again, it goes, it depends on your athletic ability. Everybody's athleticism is different. Some people catch on really quick. BJ Penn was a black belt in three years, and it wasn't like it was somebody gave it to him too early. He was smoking black belts, beating this, just beating the brakes off of him uh because he was that good. That's why they called him the prodigy. Like he was it was uneard of. He just had an athletic ability, he understood it, he got it. So it's different for everybody. A black belt for most people is eight to 16 years, just depends of consistent training. I've never gotten a black belt. I've been rolling since 2006. I'm like, Well, the fuck haven't you got one yet? Because I haven't been consistent. I'm not rolling currently right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:49

You have to stay with it. It's uh not it's not like a perishable skill. Like it's like riding a bike. You can get on a bike if you haven't been on a bike in 10 years, but you're not gonna be able to do wheelies and kick flips and all the other stuff that you used to do when you were in middle school. Like it'll take a while to get that back. Yeah, like just like playing um in the instrument. Like, if I go to jump on my keyboard right now, I could play a couple things on the piano, but to be able to play where I've impressed people like I was at one point, and I'm gonna take, I have to get back at it. I'm gonna take probably some, yeah. And it's uh it's it's an applied not just training, but once you're out on the street and you start applying it, just it just becomes experience. There's no it's hard to say, like there's no one thing that'll happen, or there's five, you go to five calls and abuse of force, and then you're gonna be good, or you go to ten, like there's it's just one of those like uh moments, and you start to become more confident, and even then like there's gonna be people that are gonna be able to beat the brakes off you, and you just yeah, like like we've said with most things, it just if you talk, I always found if you talk, talking was that Dalton from um Roadhouse. Yeah, you gotta talk to people, then you gotta make them do things.

SPEAKER_07 1:58:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:13

Um, to Max Allen's point here, he said, I'm a reserve, don't have a taser. He's like, so he wanted some more options. He's the one that asked the question about the the rolling. Um, I would say definitely stick with it. You're going to suck. This is a problem for cops. Cops is an alpha type job, it attracts a lot of alpha personalities. When they get into grappling, they realize very quickly that they are no longer an alpha, that they're gonna get the brakes beat off of them over and over and over again by guys and girls, by people smaller than them, because they understand what grappling is. And you just have to get over it. That's why I like grappling, it humbles you. You are never the largest shark in the fucking lake there. So um, yeah, you've you've got to get over losing. You're gonna lose a lot if you look at it that way. I don't look at it as a losing. My mindset is I learn every time I lose, every time I tap out and play this fake game of life and death, because that's really what grappling at a gym is. It's a it's a fake game of life or death. Um, because when I tap, I basically said, Yeah, you would have broke my joint there, or you would have killed me. You would have choked me out. You could have killed me there or broke a limb. So tap, nap, or snap. That's the whole crux of grappling. And if you can't get past that, damn, uh, you don't you don't belong out here. And you're gonna lose, you're gonna lose a lot. Lose as much as you can. Just keep trying to learn. Work your game. Grappling is a marathon. Again, I'm a purple belt. One day, once my girls are graduated high school and they're out doing their own thing, and I don't have to play dad as much, I'll have time to go back to the gym and eventually earn my black belt. And I will. I just it's it's a marathon. I'm a purple belt, I've been a purple belt for a long fucking time. So, but I've got I'm a dad, I got kids. I just don't have the time to do it consistently. Um, there's a thing, if you guys do get into grappling, this thing called the blue flu. Uh, and that's where once you get your blue belt, you just stop coming back. And uh don't let that be you. Because two years of grappling, it's great. You get a little bit of muscle memory, but that's perishable. However, they say once you hit about purple belt, now you've developed lifelong muscle memory. And and that's the level I got to. Uh, and I I prove it to myself all the time. As much as long as I've been out of the gym practicing regularly, I can still go in the gym, go grapple with my buddies that have been rolling, and I can hold my own long enough. They're still gonna beat the brakes off of me.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:57

But so you're saying you're not a 22-year-old, Eric? Is that is that what you're getting at?

SPEAKER_05 2:01:01

Not a 22-year-old, no, not at all. But um, it it will definitely help you.

Closing Notes Mods Growth And Kindness

SPEAKER_05 2:01:07

Uh Brian said, as a guitarist, it used to drive me nuts watching movies with a guy faking his guitar playing.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:15

So just like anything else, if you know what you're watching, like just like from police work, when we know what we're watching when we're watching these videos and breaking stuff down. If you know what you're watching and you've been there before, you it's some things are just hard to explain to someone unless you've worked at Target for 15 years working the cash register, unless you work the window at McDonald's or work the cash register simply. Like there's some things that you'll just you'll get over time.

SPEAKER_05 2:01:45

Umberto said, We we finally have a defensive uh defensive tactics BGJ coach uh at our agency. I work uh for the county in your city, so he's talking about where I'm at. And he said, uh, love y'all's training facility and BGJ training y'all have at the academy. Yeah, we have fucking badass. We uh we got guys that grapple, I think it's Tuesdays and Thursdays at our academy. I mean, it's like clockwork, I think it's at noon for for the lunchtime crowd. So we've got a ton of black belts on my department that it you have no excuse if you're the guy that's not doing any sort of grappling training, man, at my department where I'm at, like you got no excuse, man. It's there. Um, and the training's available. But well, we've uh we've we've hit two hours. Um, I think we've beat the brakes off of this uh this video.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:36

Um that is a very good episode.

SPEAKER_05 2:02:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:39

Though I watched when I watched, I what because this morning I was like, this one's a good one. And I know that Clayton County's historically always had something good going on down there. They've always had action. So like this will be a good way to have my coffee this morning. So that's what I watched this morning. And like I said, there was one point in the video where he like towards the middle of middle towards the end of it, he's he says to the listeners, I don't know why you stopped some of these cars. I couldn't tell for, but you pulled something out of every one of them. Yeah, so I think I think that there may be like I I don't want to just harp on him, I want to give him an a little editorial out. Yeah, no, I get it, but I get it.

SPEAKER_05 2:03:21

Like I said, I don't think it was terrible police work. I just think I think they got they rushed it. And I I think it's it's fixable. And if if other cops can watch our little breakdown and this and talk about it and and just avoid that in the future, then maybe we're we're helping create some better practices out there. So um I will say this one comment is bugging me. Wade said BJ Penn has the best rubber guard in the game. No, he doesn't. Eddie Bravo does. Uh Eddie Bravo is the one that put rubber guard on the map. Eddie Bravo's pretty much the one that gave it the name. So uh, and the only reason I say that is because I am a 10th planet student. That's how I got started in jujitsu is because of Rubber Guard. I actually bought the Rubber Guard book because they didn't have the videos at the time when I started rolling. And uh Eddie Bravo is the uh Mac Daddy, if you will, of the Rubber Guard. Love BJ Penn. He had the dexterity and flexibility and would try to work Rubber Guard uh in his MMA career, but uh he did not have it down like Eddie's got it down. So uh with that said, guys, girls, uh whatever you identify as, I don't care. Guys and girls is what I say. So uh please, our YouTube channel is growing fairly regularly now. Like it's it's it's growing bigger, faster. Uh it's very noticeable. It's not a you know one here and there anymore. It's it's it's quite a few each day. So we're doing something right, we're gaining more ground, more attention. Um, I would like to open it up that I am looking for more mods to help out. Um if you have a specialty in OBS and you want to volunteer to help us out, uh, I would love to offer uh a tryout, if you will. Um, deadleg and Alan are gonna be my my judges. Uh so I want to put that up.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:22

Pretend sniff producers.

SPEAKER_05 2:05:24

Yes. And then um uh as far as helping get the word up, uh I appreciate our community. I feel like you guys are really helping get more people, more and more people to us. So please continue to try to do that. Um what we do and how we do it really does depend on growth, so we can get some money into what we're doing to create better content for y'all. Um, I have not put out a gray area episode. The next one is going to be about I'm only doing 10 because I want to see how well they do, but the next one's gonna be about tech with license plate readers uh and drones and talk about that. So, because it's obviously it's a hot button topic. So it's going to that one may actually be a two-parter. So um I do want to thank my mods that are on here today. Thank you for coming out. Uh yeah, this was kind of impromptu. So I know Tim just he's on here tonight, and I think Harrison and Harrison were on. I think Twitchy was on there too. So shout out to Twitchy. Um everybody that donated, thank you again for that. Uh, that goes right back into the show. But please continue to try to get more people out here. Um, do not be afraid to bring in the worst of the worst either. If you think they're just gonna come here and troll, we have won many over, I think, with the way that we're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:50

Yeah, we've had some very good discussions. Yeah, some great stuff. Very, very good discussions. Had some very good first amendment auditors come in.

SPEAKER_05 2:06:58

Yeah. Um, there's always good ones. Don said, I will say when I was watching in the vertical mode, some of the chat, most of the chat besides me was not coming through. I was one of the few people in there, but did not see the chat. Yeah, I don't know what the difference is between vertical and the horizontal. We offer both just so people have options. Um, so yeah, you just gotta kind of figure out which one is um the best. So, but yeah, thank you guys. Uh again, this one was a little impromptu. We are still going to have one Sunday. I gotta find a guest. I had uh one lined up, and I'm not sure if that one's still willing or able to do it. So I don't haven't made the announcement yet. So I'm gonna work on that after this podcast is done. Appreciate you guys. You got any closing uh words there of wisdom?

SPEAKER_02 2:07:48

I like the waiter looser waiting. Do something nice for somebody. Yeah, do something nice for somebody. Bring it to bed.

SPEAKER_05 2:07:57

I like that. Please do something kind before bed. Oh I did I take it off and you had it up there. Yeah, peace and blessings to all do something kind to someone before bed. Yeah, I like that. So awesome. Everybody, thanks for joining us tonight. Uh, and have a good night. See you Sunday and stream.